| Author |
Message |
Kirby (12.94.2.158)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 9:21 pm: | |
Gear #1: When I bought my bus, it had the Ross hydraulic power assist steering. It worked okay, but it was worn out.
Gear #2: So I replaced it with a Sheppard power steering gear that I bought factory-remanufactured from Sheppard Manufacturing in PA, and it worked good at first but then got a little play in it after a while. So I called the Sheppard folks and asked what could be done about eliminating the play. They said there were no adjustments and nothing I could do to make it any better.
Gear #3: So I acquired the Ross integral steering gear, taken from an MCI-9, and just finished the installation today. It steers great, it steers really good, it steers magnificently, it's like driving a car! Well, almost. But I really am pleased with its performance. Just had to share.... |
TomNPat (68.128.12.166)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 1:47 am: | |
Kirby,
Thanks for sharing. After all that trouble you deserve 'magnificently'.
TomNPat |
Geoff (64.1.0.39)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 7:32 am: | |
Are the Ross integral steering boxes adjustable for free play?
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA (with NEW (not rebuilt) Sheppard steering box) |
Kirby (12.94.2.211)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 8:16 am: | |
Yes Geoff, they are adjustable. There is a lock nut and adjusting screw on the cover that takes the free play out by adjusting the pitman shaft.
Kirby |
jimnh (172.141.14.103)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 8:39 am: | |
If you have a new Ross box, it is unlikely you will ever have to adjust it. I put one in my MC-8 in '93 and put 100,000 miles on it before I sold the bus. Steered just like a car. Best thing I did to the bus.
Jim |
bill chisholm (Billybandman) (205.188.209.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 1:55 pm: | |
I wonder how much fabrication would be required to change my 72 GMC Sheppard to a Ross Gear. I am tired of fooling with the Sheppard. Do they nake a Ross with the same bolt pattern? |
Kirby (12.94.4.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 5:50 pm: | |
Not that I know of, but I made an adapter plate that would bolt to the axle and bolt to the steering gear, counter-bored as necessary. The 4104 bevel gear is different, it's counter clockwise in, clockwise out --- that's why I was able to use the Ross gear from an MCI-9. |
John Rigby (24.174.233.65)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:35 pm: | |
Kirby
Did you install the Ross on a 4104 ?
John Rigby |
Kirby (12.94.1.101)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 11:08 pm: | |
Yes, a 4104. I guess I forgot to mention that in the first post.
Kirby |
Roger Jendrusina (Rogerj) (67.192.53.250)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 7:31 am: | |
Kirby,
The Sheppard factory re-man is supposed to be the best replacement gear available. Any explanation for what caused the re-man gear to develop play? How many miles? What type of oil were you using? What pressure pump was installed?
Roger
4104-Michigan |
John Rigby (24.174.233.65)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 8:14 am: | |
Kirby.
You have really developed somthing new here.Could you post more details of how you went about the modification.I know all us 4104 owners would be most interested.How many hours did it take you to modify ? did you utilize some of the shepard parts also?
Thanks
John Rigby |
Kirby (12.94.4.89)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 10:27 am: | |
Roger, miles are well under 40,000 and the gear came with a placard that said to use 10W motor oil unless otherwise specified. I used 10W. The pump is the typical Vickers power steering pump as used on later model buses. It came from a 1981 Grumman Flxible transit bus, which had a Sheppard steering gear on it. As far as the pressure is concerned, it's less than 1500 pounds, but you can't check it real well unless you turn the wheel hard and fast while stopped, with a hydraulic pressure gauge attached.
It's not my intent to trash Sheppard, it seems to be the "nature of the beast" for that gear; it's just not adjustable.
John, I just knew I could make it work, so I built a mock-up on the bench to mimic the front axle. Fabricated a 1-inch thick steel plate, approximately 12" x 16" as an adapter plate for mounting the steering gear on the axle. (The adapter plate was attached to the axle using the original U-bolts.) Then spent some time figuring out the angle to use for mounting the steering gear on the plate and axle, so that it would correctly point to the steering drive shaft. Also, I mounted the Ross steering gear so that the sector shaft and pitman arm are now mounted behind the back side of the axle, as opposed to the front side which was the placement with the Sheppard gear. Keep in mind that I used the MCI-9's pitman arm also, which is shorter than the Sheppard pitman arm. The shorter pitman arm has a "dog leg" in it to clear the tie rod.
One item that I forgot to mention so far, because I changed it some years ago, is that I used the steering arms from a 4905 because they are longer and give you 48 degrees instead of 42 degrees steering angle. Also some years ago, I removed the a/c fuel tank that was mounted on the forward bulkhead, so that wasn't in my way in doing this steering gear change. By the way, if my memory serves me correctly, I believe the steering arms from a 1981 Grumman Flxible are the same as the 4905's steering arms.
As I write this, I feel like I'm opening a can of worms. A lot of what I've done on my '04 has been a matter of progression, involving a series of changes over the past several years. All these parts that I've used are Rockwell standard, legitimate parts, except for the 1" thick steel adapter plate which would be pretty hard to break or ruin.
FWIW and HTH
Kirby |
John Rigby (24.174.233.65)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 3:09 pm: | |
Kirby
Thanks for your reply.I have had my 4104 for 15 years, I have done lots of modifications during this time,but not included the power assit.Could I trouble you to drop me your phone # so I may chat a little on this and maybe other modification subjects.My e-mail is
tamara4104@cs.com
Thanks in advance John Rigby |
mel 4104 (208.181.100.22)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 8:07 pm: | |
Kirby,i also drive a 4104 that i put power steering on 2 years ago and think that it is the best thing going after fighting the manual steering for years,it is a shepard unit. Go find yourself a G.M. fish bowl with power steering, then it becomes simple ,take out the old manual unit off the axel leaving the ball joint on the steering arm, tie it out of the way. from the donar bus you need thesteering rod that goes from the angle gears to the powersteering unit, also the powersteering pump, hoses , oil resivior and through bulk head fittings, and u bolts. place 2 runs of 1 inch thin wall conduit from the front bulk head to the bulk head in front of the rear wheelsto run your oil line hoses through, from this bulk head run the hoses up over the rear axeland out through the rear bulk head,on the tranny side of the engine , mount the oil resivior on the engine hanger rod beside the tranny. you will need a longer shaft to run the oil pump and the blower you get this from DD. on the front be sure that you have the bus over a pit or on good blocking at least a foot higher than normal you will need all the higth that you can get to be able to get the shepard unit up and on the front axel it is very heavy and not easy to move around without lots of head room. get 2 new u bolts to hold the unit to the front axel,these you can get at your local truck parts store. turn the unit left and right to find the center point. slide it on the axel ot where you can connect the steering arm that you had tied up be sure that the wheel are straight ahead. now measure how long the steering rod going in to the front of the unit needs to be and grind off the the receiver end of the old rod and weld it onto the shepard rod. when you get all the hoses in place and tight(when you are fitting hoses and such do not tighten to hard do this as you are closer to completion. you will need a 1" thick piece of plateto bolt on the top of the axel with the old u bolts this holds the power steering unit from moving on the axel. Hope this helps mel 4104 1 250 248 2766 for more info. |