| Author | Message | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 388 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 174.101.85.213 Rating: N/A |
I've been searching in the archives for information pro's and cons to installing a single cooling system for engine and generator! I found one post from Driving MissLazy, where he used a single system for his Eagle and by installing two (2) 16" electric fans knowing how this always seems to brighten the day for many,........does anyone by chance have any idea's of how Richard did his cooling system? I'm not sure he did away with his mechanical fan and just went with electric fans or added those in (with) his mechanical fan. I've alread run 1" copper lines from the rear to front, two of them, a supply and return line I've installed isolation valves for the Hurricane Heater, Generator and Defroster. This system as designed will be a parallel feed system for all users being supplied! There will be one (1) inline 24VDC water pump feeding all users! On the suction line coming from the radiator to the engine my 1" supply takes off there and heads for the front to feed the hurricane heater, I'm thinking about using a restricting flow orfice to limit flow to the hurricane heater,this flow orfice will restrict a large portion of the water from flowing through this small user, this heater is designed to act as a block warmer during winter for pre-heating the engine before starting serving as a back up to the regular block heater, there are isolation valves here also. The the next user inline is the generator which is a Isuzu L3, 3 cylinder diesel 15kw generator, This user will be unrestricted! there are isolation valves here also. The next user in line is the defroster which is also equipped with isolation valves and a bypass valves for warm weather. On the return line back to the engine are two 20 gallon hot water heaters with 3/8" copper coils wound around the tanks under the insulation and metal cover, they are in a series loop, this loop will help heat the hot water while on the road, there are isolation valves here too. At this point the 1" return line continues back to the engine which will return to the top of the radiator for heat removal! Back to the cooling fans, I know this has been controversial on both sites for a long time. I am wanting to continue to use my mechanical fan drive and fan plus I would like to install a single 16" 24 or 12VDC or even 120VAc fan for when the engine is off and power can be supplied through the inverter/generator/shorepower souce! This is where Richard said he had no problems after the first few bugs, one was a crimped supply line from the radiator, which he rerouted and then by placing the electric fans with thermostatic control with a running light on the dash to confirm that the fans were running! Will the electric fan in front of the mechanical fan hamper or restrict the cooling of the mechanical fan while on the road? I added this note, the Hurricane Heater, serves many functions, there are five zones for hydronic heating, a block pre-heater, and to also heat potable water! It has a diesel boiler, which is also an electric fired boiler, it is self contained with heat exchangers and pumps! I know that was long and I'm sorry, if you see anywhere that there could be a possible problem speak up..........I as always appreciate the input good and bad......... Thanks! Pat | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1641 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
Not getting into this deep. He needed to add the electric cooling fan,s to the coach radiator, as eventually, the generator will make enough heat that it will get too hot, even with the large coach system, needing the fan,s to run as needed to keep temps in check. The normal coach fan is undisturbed, as it will still be needed to cool the coach engine. One precaution is to make sure the generator water pump can push coolant that far; you may need an auxiliary pump. Dick Wrico that sells generators may help on this. | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 498 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52  Rating: N/A |
If you design the electric 24 volt auxiliary fan & shroud to be removable, simply hanging on the outside or the radiator when parked with generator running, you would not need to compromise exsiting coach design between the two modes of cooling air flow, making neither run peak efficiency in the compromised design modifications. +perhaps one of those modern chevy designs with two fans rewired to run in series, complete with there own shroud might fit the build, or two fan/shroud arrangements put side by side to cover enough of your coach radiator. -Good to hear your designing co-gen into the system, don't forget plumbing turbulence is greater with Ts than Ys in your coolant flow tie-in points, that is a large pumping job. If your generator has it's own radiator and you can keep it intact , that would be most efficient during hot weather generating mode, when you have no use for the extra heat. Also another level of redundancy for the extra weight & space, especially true if it is already in place & installed. | ||
| Jim Blumenthal (Jimblu)
Registered Member Username: Jimblu Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 208.168.232.162 Rating: N/A |
I ran the 8KW Kubota gen through my Crown radiator for 20 years with no problems, but had soldered additional inlet and outlet stubs into the top and bottom tanks of the radiator. I used 1 1/4 hoses with no elbows and the Kubota water pump circulated the water OK. I had an additional 110 volt fan mounted in the fan shroud with a oil pressure switch to keep it from running when the drive engine was operating. | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 459 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110  Rating: N/A |
Ya know... For those living and traveling in colder climates... Such a setup would enable the use of the generator as a block heater if done properly... A thermostatic system could be used to pipe water through the engine block once the genny is up to operating temp, allowing for automatic flow and temperature regulation between the engine and the genny... And putting in bypass valves would (as stated previously) allow for proper hot/warm weather operation of both the engine and the genny... I had been pondering doing something like this before my coach burned, but wrote it off because of the possible complexity issues and the unknowns... I just might have to revisit this when I either get another coach, or rebuild this one... The main genny escaped the blaze and continues to function just fine... Although, it does need a new water pump... Last time I ran it... it cried a bit... But, at least that's an easy fix compared to everything else... -Mac | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 502 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
??? did you mean - as you rebuild the coach mAc ?that is idealy the time to incorporate these new installations, resources availability aside. These project are long term affairs , by & large, even if it is another that finishes it, if there is such a thing possible ! Just a shame to expel waste heat out one end while burning expensive fuel to create heat elsewhere , in a go-gen sense. I of course am talking about running a generator for electricity only, while also burning fuel in a propane heater or Aqua-hot boiler for heat and hot water at the same time. The math is dependent on where you will use your coach , when to consider the cost & effort involved in what ever level of co-gen is being considered for installation. ... some want only a generator in there bus, some would perfer a more efficent & redundent APU system in the mix, it's all on the sme bus route, just different buses and operators ... | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 955 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.202.165.190  Rating: N/A |
The more you Daisy Chain , the more any single part failure can stop forward motion. KISS FF | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 460 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110 Rating: N/A |
Clint, Yes... Since I basically have to rebuild my coach (if that's what I ultimately decide to do) this is something I would now take into consideration... But, as Fred likes to point out... It increases complexity and give more points of failure, which is the primary reason I abandoned the idea myself. I originally thought about it when I saw the size of the generator that I managed to get with my bus... It's a fairly large 3 cyl diesel genny. Capturing heat and recycling is important... But at the same time, what's more important? Simplicity and reliability, or saving energy at the cost of unforeseen problems with the design implemented to accomplish the goal? As usual... There's really no right or wrong answer.. Just deal with the problems when they arise, but at what expense would be my main concern... I'm broke as a bank in the 1920's depression right now, so I can only contemplate possibilities at the moment... But... I think later on, when I have cashflow again... This might be something I would seriously consider implementing with automatic shutdowns, automatic gates, etc as I design my electronic control system... (I'm going to be designing my own monitoring hardware based on some open source designs, I2C networking between components, and some other neat stuff eventually)... This is also how I'm going to rebuild my dash. All digital. Modern conveniences in an ancient coach... I just like the mix. But, again, as Fred likes to point out... My design aspirations are of immense complexity, and the possibility of failure of those components and systems could bring me to a grinding halt somewhere down the road... But... At the same time, I'll be the designer of those new electronic systems and will be able to troubleshoot the computers that run everything myself without having to call in a specialist to figure out what went wrong. -Mac | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 957 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.202.165.190 Rating: N/A |
I'll be the designer of those new electronic systems and will be able to troubleshoot the computers that run everything myself without having to call in a specialist to figure out what went wrong. Coaches are far simpler to asses , but where do you get a Perkins or Kubbota water pump in Kansas at O'dark 30 ? Redundancy is a great goal, a marine HW heater that takes noisemaker coolant , can reduce the size of the noisemaker as it runs the cold air machine.OR a simple copper base board heat tubing can warm the coach , while the noisemaker is making electric. "MY WAY" , is to plan on independant systems that can fill in for each other , not depend on each other. Still fun bus nut mental masterbation, just in a different direction. FF (Message edited by FAST FRED on September 23, 2009) | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 389 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 174.101.85.213 Rating: N/A |
Thanks everyone for the input! I let this go for several days before answering, I needed to think this through, but after much thought........I realize that a single system isn't for me, the primary cooling should be only the engine, after spending big bucks for this monster........I don't really want to fry it! So therefor I am going to spilt the system up........the generator will have its own system! I'm trying to close the floor up so I can get the guy to come in and insulate the bus (spray foam) This means another day running more copper before that happens! Thanks again I really appreciate all of the input! |