| Author | Message | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 90 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.39.64  Rating: N/A |
What is the best tool for removing lug nuts? TORQUE MULTIPLIER LUG WRENCH? Impact wrench? ? Tried long pipe and breaker bar that did not work. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.245.23.168 Rating: N/A |
X12 torque multiplier! | ||
| Cory hart (Chart1)
Registered Member Username: Chart1 Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 166.137.136.143  Rating: N/A |
What is a torque multiplier? Where do you get them? Harbor freight by chance? I am having the same problem I put a 7' bar on a 3/4 breaker bar with all 230 lbs of me hanging on it and it still will not budge. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1087 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.15.158  Rating: N/A |
Cory, I do this with 20lbs less and a breaker about 4' shorter. Are you sure you are breaking in the right direction? I assume you know some studs are R/LH threads, maybe all? | ||
| Cory hart (Chart1)
Registered Member Username: Chart1 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 67.184.214.63 Rating: N/A |
Tried different lugs in different directions and no go. I think maybe they were over torqued they were off no longer than 6 months ago by tire company. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 146 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 209.77.228.123  Rating: |
You could maybe have a mobile tire guy come out and break them loose.. Generally the lugs on the driver side are LH and the passenger side are RH, but I have seen them reversed before when the hubs were off and got put on the wrong side! Look at the ends of the studs (or drive axle inner wheel nuts) should have L or R. The nice thing about the multipler is that you can use it with 1/2" torque wrench to install your lugs when done. If you really want to break these loose, after you have determined the correct direction of rotation, get a 1" breaker bar and socket/extension and a big ass cheater pipe and get after it. Helps to support the flex head part of the breaker bar with a block of wood or jackstand...and go ahead and use some jumping type impact pressure...constant and steady is good for tightening, but jumping on the bar is what gets them loose. The X-12 is not cheap...don't even think about Harbor Freight (Message edited by DaveG on February 14, 2010) | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.242.205.113 Rating: N/A |
Nope, not Harbor Freight. This is a quality tool! Go to www.times12.com/ to see it. The one you want is the original X-12. Not cheap but well worth the price, if you look around you might find someone on ebay selling one. The older you get, the more you will appreciate this tool. I have ended up using mine a lot more than i expected, and as far as i am concerned it has already paid for itself. | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 194 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 75.245.222.190  Rating: |
Long shank 1" drive air gun of course..... | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 796 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91  Rating: N/A |
I am on Marks side. Use air whenever possible. I use a 3/4 drive impact air wrench with 125 lbs and I find that is all that is needed. Gomer | ||
| Cory hart (Chart1)
Registered Member Username: Chart1 Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 67.184.214.63 Rating: N/A |
WOW !! Do they offer financing on this tool. LOL.. Maybe I could get my health insurance to cover this as preventive maitnance. Cheaper than back surgery. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218  Rating: N/A |
I found this one on eBay it claims x60 for $180.00. Item number 160404068260 | ||
| Cory hart (Chart1)
Registered Member Username: Chart1 Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 67.184.214.63 Rating: N/A |
Wow , I am ordering one . That price I can handle. Check out how cool this tool is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJLmki4sKXc | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
Hey Cory, that's the one I saw on eBay. I can understand flipping for Quality tools, but for something that I am not going to subject to a daily shop use environment I would be hard pressed to pay $600-$900 when something for $180 is available besides if one is careful not to overload /torque this it should last just fine considering that it is for emergency use only. in my shop I use Boomers method 1" long shank air gun used carefully not like a gorilla. | ||
| Cory hart (Chart1)
Registered Member Username: Chart1 Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 67.184.214.63 Rating: N/A |
99% of the time if the wheel needs to come off it is going to be a tire company taking it off. But as everyone knows Things happen at the worst time and the worst places. For a 180.00 that gives me a piece of mind knowing I could remove them if I need to. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.242.180.141 Rating: N/A |
Looks like it should work ok, and the price is great. :>) I am still happy with mine though. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1797 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.100.208  Rating: N/A |
A busnut should only experience seized lug nuts once, the first time the wheels are removed after some previous owner was abusing them. You shouldn't need that monster nut buster again, since you will install the wheels correctly, and remove them periodically as part of your preventive maintenance program. After they are unseized, a busnut should have a knowledgeable person inspect the parts, or, perhaps better, having no knowledge of the previous abuse, remove and replace the studs and wheel fasteners with new. In hiring an installer, a busnut should stand over any hired help and be prepared to beat them in the back of the head with the air gun they try using, if they are not going to use some calibrated device to put proper torque to the wheel fasteners. That air gun also needs to be set to turn in the correct direction while removing fasteners... If you didn't know, "tire installer" is pretty close to the bottom of the food chain, most jurisdictions have no training or licensing requirements for this job. It is heavy, dirty work that pays poorly. Do not expect this person to understand anything except that the application of greater amounts of force will eventually get 'r apart, one way or another. The tire and wheel manufacturers have detailed installation instructions available online for free. You will note that the instructions may be quite a contrast with practice... Anyway, this current situation is more serious than just stuck lug nuts. If they won't come off with a long pipe extension, by long, I mean fence post, over 6 feet, with a heavy person swinging on the end... 6 feet and 250 pounds makes 1500 ft/lbs of torque, 3 times the usual installation torque... You must be VERY concerned about the stud body, and the threads on both the stud and nuts having been damaged by the previous careless installation. If the threads are leaning over, or the whole stud has been stretched, they will not maintain proper clamping force on the wheel, and are also more prone to snapping off, as they have lost the intended elasticity. None of us in the hobby need a bus camper making the news because the wheel it lost crossed the centre line into oncoming traffic... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1798 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.100.208 Rating: N/A |
Oh, as the other poster suggested, after pricing the neat tools, bring in the local tire service to get those removed. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Debo Cox (Debo)
Registered Member Username: Debo Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 149.168.204.10  Rating: N/A |
This is exactly what happened with mine. My lugnuts were on impossibly tight, so when they installed my new tires I just had them torque them tight enough to get me the the couple of miles home until I could torque them properly with a torque wrench. I bought a 3x torque multiplier from Northern Tool with a 3/4" input and a 1" output. I also bought the proper size Budd sockets and extension for my wheels, and a six-foot piece of iron pipe to use on the torque multiplier handle as a cheater bar. Oh, and a 3/4" 250 ft/lb torque wrench too. Now I have the proper tools to remove my wheels for service or inspection when necessary, or change a tire on the side of the road if required. BTW, my lugnuts call for 500 ft/lbs of torque. With a 3x multiplier I can easily put 167 pounds on the end of a torque wrench to get them just right. | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 91 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.39.64 Rating: N/A |
On my Prevost the left side of the coach is left hand threads and the right is right haned threads. Found that in the book. The tag axle and front tire are coming lose with a 6 foot pipe but the drive tires are not. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 797 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91 Rating: N/A |
As much as I hate to say this, you may have to do one of ywo things. Call for a tire man to help or try to heat the nuts up a little that may help. Oh, don't use never sieze on the studs when you take the old ones off. They will loosen up, just use a little oil. Gomer | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1089 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.42.57 Rating: N/A |
Cory, If any stud ends are stamped L you have to loosen by turning to the right(CW), the normal direction you tighten a nut. Maybe this is obvious but so far nobody has said this! My two front wheel hubs have been reversed but have caused me no problems? I always make sure the tire jocks notice this before they mount their monster air wrenches! Sometimes I have to jump up and down a bit on my breaker but they have always come loose. | ||
| Cory hart (Chart1)
Registered Member Username: Chart1 Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 67.184.214.63 Rating: N/A |
Some are stamped with and L. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
How Proper. Rolls Royce and Bentley also have reverse threads on one side, the theory being that they will not work themselves off completely if they were to come loose as long as you don't drive in reverse at highway speeds. And a small correction for Bus Warrior and a Caution in general which I humbly offer as expert opinion being in the restoration and service trade of the aforementioned makes plus Lamborghini and Ferrari. Quote " "tire installer" is pretty close to the bottom of the food chain," well actually those bottom feeders sometimes can Lie and sneak their way in to the most respectable of service facilities and usually if the owner is aware of the employees work then they can be weeded out quickly if not many customers can suffer butcheries performed on their prized possessions by cretins with clubs and cudgels. I like the beating them with the air gun idea. | ||
| john degemis (Degemis)
Registered Member Username: Degemis Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 68.113.39.64 Rating: N/A |
Well I drove it to Les Schwab and they lossened and retightened all my lugs for free. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1090 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.34.124 Rating: N/A |
John, You are to be congratulated for your simple, effective solution to this vexing problem!! It appears that none of us experts have ever thought of that! George, Chrysler autos had this L/R charade for many years, the main result for me was a few stretched wheel studs because the other US evidently didn't use that system. Since my 4104 front hubs are reversed and I have had no problems in the four years and 55,000 mi I've owned it the whole concept is a question in my mind. I maintain that the amount of damage cause by L/R confusion and powerful air guns has been far more harmful than a few loose lug nuts would have been. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 534 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193  Rating: N/A |
Sometimes the better mechanical solution isn't the way to go due to some people not paying attention or failure to RTFM (read the flippin manual). As for me, if I'm running stud piloted wheels on my bus, I will have LH threads on the driver's side. I have first hand experience of what happens to loose RH nuts on the driver's side & don't want to repeat that performance ever again. ;) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1099 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.17.111 Rating: N/A |
Kyle, My front hubs have been reversed since I got the bus four years and 55,000 mi ago with no problems yet. Considering all the work involved I don't plan to change them until it is necessary because of some other job. It probably would cause a problem on drive wheels but it is obviously not a problem on steers. Not reading the manual is the American way, you would probably be surprised at how many bnuts don't even have manuals. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 536 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 74.179.153.198 Rating: N/A |
Gus, Maybe not surprised, but definitely disapointed.  I had a rear wheel come off once when the tire store only tightened 2 studs before quitting. When those 2 studs snapped off, the tire rolling around the wheel well did no favors to the rear fender of that old chevelle. The left hand threads don't keep the nuts tight, it just prevents them from continuing to back off IF they are loose. A vehicle with a loose wheel contained by loose lug nuts is much easier to control than a vehicle with a wheel that is totally disconnected from the hub. . . For someone who PROPERLY torques on his wheels & checks them after some miles & heat cycles, the direction of threads will probably never be an issue. There really is no substitute for good preventive maintainence. The main thing is to be safe & not endanger others. |
