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L.CLINTON (209.245.96.191)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 2:50 pm:   

I haven't posted anything in 3 years. Been totally immersed in boats (almost literally a few times).
Last bus conversion was a Aerocoach/PD4106 splice that's still going down the road. Now I have a new project....
Converting a MC6 for mobile hospitality and lodging. Looking to re-power. Seriously considering a 60 series because of hp, reliability, leaks, (that should generate some flack), etc. Anyone exchanged a 8v92 for a 60? From the specs I've found the 60 is 10" longer. Anyone know for sure?
I'm looking for a great deal in low hours or newly rebuilt. I had a factory rebuilt 740D installed before finding the engine was toasted. Will a 60 bolt straight up?
Anyone know of any Areocoches with overhead windows?
How about baggage door rubber hinge for a MC6?
It's good to see this great sight is still going strong.
Larry C
Tallship Avany
Neo/Russ (66.119.33.170)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:30 pm:   

Larry,
Tom on Diesel chat is putting a 60 with a 740 in his Eagle (I think it's an Eagle). I'm putting a 60 in my Neoplan Skyliner. My old engine was an 8V-92 with HT747R. That trans won't work for several reasons. For me it has to do with gear ratios. My drive axle is Mercedes and I have to live with 4.03 or 4.20 (I have a spare). To drop the rpm's of the 8V from 2100 at 65 to the 60 turning 1400-1500 at 65 (DD recomendation)I need about a .7 OD. That doesn't leave any 1:1 transmission options like the 700 series. Also the engine is full electronic and the compatability isn't there. My engine came out of a '93 Freightliner with 500k, cheaper for whole truck than the 8V rebuild. I'm in the middle of the installation and I know it's longer (10-12 inches), but depends on trans length as to how I'll address the rear of the bodywork. Hope this helps a little.
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.37.173)

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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 11:09 pm:   

Russ,

Using a 1:1 ratio tranny, at 1800 rpm you will get 73.6mph with a 3.08 rear end ratio. If you wind it up to 2100 rpm the same axle will get you to 85.9 mph or you can use a 4.11 and max out at 65 mph at 2100 rpm.

All these figures come from using the Eaton website Road Speed Calculator:

http://www.truck.eaton.com/cgi-bin/eaton/road_speed_calc/road_calc.pl

I quote 1800 and 2100 rpm as that is what the Series 60 is designed to run in a semi-truck.

Peter.
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 2:14 am:   

Larry -

The MC-6 originally came with the 12V71 engine hooked to the Spicer 8844 four-speed manual gearbox.

According to the DDA brochure I have, the 12V is 21" longer than the 8V92 - 65" vs 44". Don't have the S-60 length numbers handy, but I think they're about the same as the 6-71, around 56".

MC-6s are pretty rare birds, nowdays. Wonder how many of the 100 produced are still on the road?

Good luck, and welcome back!

RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA
Neo/Russ (66.83.53.142)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 12:16 pm:   

Peter,

I've tried to use that Eaton calculator, but it's too limited in its choice of tire diameters. For example I use 3.15-80 R 22.5's. So I use the calculator Daris's site. It lets me plug in my true tire diameter and get exact speeds.

As to the speed to run a Series 60, Valley Detroit diesel says; "For maximum fuel economy, Detroit Diesel recommends gearing the vehicle so the engine is running 1450-1500 rpm at cruise speed or top road speed. This RPM range is also within the maximum rated torque range" This motor has way more than 200 ft.lbs. torque at the speeds I'll be running than the old 8V.

Last week I was at the Mid-America truck show and talked to engineers at the Detroit Diesel booth. "If you're running 80k in the mountains then gear it to turn about 1800+ on the flat, but if you're running LTL in Florida, slow it way down to get the mpg, it'll pull!" I'm going to be under 50k and don't plan to run the Grapevine every week, so I'm targeting 1450 rpm at 65/70. Here in Tennessee, at 75 everyone is passing you, so I need the speed.

Also, to turn those R's I need a .64 O.D. (Allison World B-500 = $$$$expensive) and my 4.03 (net 2.579) ratio. With all I've got to spend for the trans, I'm doing a lot of research from technical people who really know.

Just passing on what I've gathered so Larry and others have an idea that no matter what, they're facing a rearend swap or a tall O.D.
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.93)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 1:02 pm:   

Rebuilding the 8V92TA to 475HP and settling for 5-6 mpg is cheaper than modifying the bus floor to accomodate the taller Series 60 and having to replace the transmission and rear end (if someone is concerned about money).
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.176)

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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 1:12 pm:   

Russ,

I was not being negative about what info you had sent, I was also passing on what I had gained whilst researching for my project.

I agree on the Eaton Calculator and have also used other ones. It worked for what I needed when calculating for my Freightliner conversion.

I will be running a Rockwell 9 speed which has a .72 o/drive and a 3.91 rear end with 11R. 22.5 tires.

I have no idea why these used World Trannys are so much money other than perhaps it is supply and demand keeping them so high.

Can you get the ratio you need to run those speeds to fit your rear end?

I will be turning mine at 1800 at 77 mph. If I take it to 2100 I will be doing 90 mph. At 1500 I will be at 66 mph and to be honest, 65 to 70 is fast enough to cruise with a 65 ft long rig including trailer. So I am not far from what DD is recommending. Gotta watch out for those tires at these high sustained cruising speeds too.

Trouble I had was finding an o/drive tranny and a low numerical ratio. I kept finding trucks with heavy haul gearing such as 4.11 and 4.56.

Good luck.

Peter.
HondoJoe04 (66.74.50.62)

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Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 10:42 am:   

Hi LClinton,
Very interesting! You mention the AeroCoach!
Travelled the entire country in Dad's earlier AeroCoach Conversions as a kid in the 60s. We still have a AeroCoach rusting away on the old family farm in Minnesota. Would like to sell it for parts. Basically left that's good would be the steering and suspension as this bus only has less than 50,000 TOTAL miles! We removed the Red Diamond 450 engine & 5 spd trans many years ago.
ALSO FOR YOUR ATTENTION!!
I recently marvelled at a complete AeroCoach with the overhead scenic windows for sale on Ebay!!!
I think if I look I may still have the link. It is in Washington State I beleive. Post a message & best to email me if interested. I don't think many busnuts here remember the AeroCoach!! Joe 4104 F908
L.CLINTON (209.245.105.149)

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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 12:13 pm:   

Thanks for all the responses. No one complained about the 8V's leaking! I'm surprised.
I've been told that the MC6 probably came with a 3.73 gear. I'm also told that there is a 3.73 available (for $1000-seems expensive). Anyone know if others would work?
According to the Eaton calculator (found at roadranger.com) I should be rolling about 68 mph at 1800 with a 1:1 like the allison 740 is with my 24.50 tires.
I don't know about using standard truck gears, what'l work and what won't. I'm not dumb, just ignorant.
I was told that the allison would work with the series 60. Haven't any experience with the electronic engines so I'm looking for advice.
I haven't located any 60's for sale or haven't seen the ads for rebuilding the 8v92T either. Leads would be appreciated. I'm presently freezing in northern NH instead of basking in the rain in southern GA.
Larry C
Gary Carter (68.26.216.168)

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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 1:24 pm:   

For the record my 8V92TA does not leak, so leakage should not be a problem.

As far as transmission choices go you could check out a RTO autoshifter (eaton). These are available with a double overdrive and can use a torque convertor for starting/stopping.

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