| Author | Message | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 500 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.225.217  Rating: N/A |
Anyone run their fuel thru some kind of cooler or feel the need too will outweigh the hassle/extra plumbing? FF had a good point about running with a low tank of fuel on a previous post. We try to keep as much fuel in the tank as we can. | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1332 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 75.219.218.206  Rating: N/A |
Never thought about a fuel cooler. When we stop for fuel (approx. 500-600 miles) we usually take on 80-120 gallon. With our 170 gallon capacity, we still have 50-90 gallon. When we stop for fuel, we always fill the tank full. Jack | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 925 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.80.29 Rating: N/A |
I ran my 8v92 with a cooler living in AZ it helped a must for the newer common rail engines of today,never read FF post but you do give up hp with hot fuel. good luck | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 439 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 209.156.24.114  Rating: N/A |
If you do install a fuel cooler you may want to install a bypass. Would a cooler cause problems in the winter? Whether we have 1 gig or 5 gigs I fill up every week on my way home from a gig. There is a "24hr Pay At The Pump" BP close to my house they have the quick fill Truck pumps and at 2am in the morning there is no body in my way.... (Message edited by zimtok on September 01, 2010) | ||
| Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01 Post Number: 90 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 72.37.244.90  Rating: N/A |
So does anyone know what the real benefit of a fuel cooler is? It seems to me that the only effect that would contribute to horsepower would be increased density. Given that the autoignition temperature of diesel fuel is 210 degrees centigrade, the density increase would appear to be minimal. I know that my 4107 exhibits symptoms of incomplete combustion until the engine is warm and the fuel temperature increases. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 927 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.80.29 Rating: N/A |
FWIW fuel after 90F in a DD hp power falls off at 2% for every 20 degrees above 90 degrees good luck | ||
| Bruce (Bgs4104)
Registered Member Username: Bgs4104 Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 63.196.194.243 Rating: |
It also cut down on the fuel odor cumming from a hot fuel tank after a long run and then parking with a window open. Had one on a 4104 6-71 for more then 10 years with no problems. Installed it in the return line. Bruce | ||
| Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01 Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 72.37.244.90 Rating: N/A |
Hey Luvrbus, is there a graph and/or any other documented explanation for this phenomenon? With that delta it seems that one could anticipate a 32% loss of effeciency by the time the fuel reaches combustion temperature, which seems excessive. Also, since the fuel is delivered to the injectors under pressure, and the pressure is increased again significantly by the injection process, it seems that density variations induced by temperature would be alleviated to a large extent for a more modest degradation in effeciency. Thanks for helping me understand this. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 928 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.80.29 Rating: N/A |
Sure is Jim section 2.5.1 in the Detroit bible dated 1988 good luck | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 280 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.234  Rating: |
Trying to understand. Would hot fuel only reduce power during full power conditions? Would not the governor just open the rack further to inject more less dense fuel in less than wide open conditions? If my DD will smoke black at full throttle do I need to worry about warm fuel reducing power? What kind of cooler would you use? Fuel to air? Where would you put it to have cool air? Anyone know what the temp of the fuel coming out of the heads is when the engine is at full temperature? Don 4107 | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 402 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
If cooling the fuel would improve mileage or performance in a measurable way, them I'm there. You would think we would be hearing a lot more about it if that were true. Me, I'm more of a fill it up and drive kind of guy. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 929 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.80.29 Rating: N/A |
Len, there is not a diesel on the road made now that doesn't have a fuel cooler DD has used a cooler since 1939 on marine engines.I loved mine and would do it again in a heartbeat best 175 bucks I ever spent,there is lot more info out there than what is posted on the internet good luck | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 677 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.216.56  Rating: N/A |
This is interesting. I had a friend who used to run his coiled gas line trough a bucket of ice at the drags, but never thought about it being used for our DD's. I just did a search and didn't find much information on how it works or even a good description. Price was from $275 and up. Where can one go on the net to find out more information? | ||
| Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01 Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 72.37.244.90 Rating: N/A |
For purposes other than drag racing, the manufacturers of these devices claim that the primary benefit is minimized fuel degradation due to polymerization, oxidation and stress imposed on the fuel due to the thermal cycling that occurs in the fuel loop process. For racers, maintaining the thermal characteristics of the fuel allows them to eliminate variability when trying to get their tuning point dialed in. The power benefit seems to be derived from the fact that the cooler fuel is more dense, which permits more air into the combustion chamber, yielding a modest increase in effeciency. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 501 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.225.217 Rating: N/A |
thanks for the replies. i know they used them on some pleasure boats to help with the "diesel" smell that promotes sea sickness for some. Where are you looking for these guys? Our tank is right under the bedroom floor, and after a hard days run i can smell the diesel pretty good. Any benifits for running would be great. I was thinking of a canvas cover over the fins in the winter would work as a by-pass. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1956 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
They make auto trans coolers for cars that have a fan attached. Just make sure the tube size is large enough. Check Summit for brand, then check mfg. web site. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1101 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.56.240.204 Rating: N/A |
Don's comment on "full throtle conditions" is correct. As fuel is heated, it expands, so there is more space between the molecules. So, an injector stroke of any number of millimeters will inject less total molecules of fuel as the fuel temperature increases. Hot fuel won't make a difference in power loss until the governor has the rack in the full fuel position. Several years ago, an 8V92 equipped fire truck wouldn't pass an hour long stationary pump test. After a whole lot of looking, somebody found that the tank had heated to over 200 degrees from the hot returned fuel. With the tank on a fire truck being just like a bus, inside and not exposed to the outside airflow, it got really hot. The solution was an oil-to-air cooler, located in front of the top portion of the radiator. This is not a problem on a truck with exposed aluminum tanks. I would put a bypass valve on it to keep the tank warm in cold weather. G | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1295 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.153.142.249  Rating: N/A |
The big hassle with hot return fuel is it also has air entrained . The injectors squirt less fuel, when a portion is air. The most common cure for trucks is the FASS system. It is an extra fuel pump, and filters that seperate the air out. www.fassride.com . Look in the Heavy Duty section. FF | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 930 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.80.29 Rating: N/A |
Here is the Prevost parts number for the cooler they were cheaper than Eagle or MCI 0316-00 for the standard tank and for the 268 gal tank 0316-01,they are made by Hayden you will find one at any truck wrecking yard,and fwiw I have never saw one with bypass valves in over 20+ years good luck (Message edited by luvrbus on September 02, 2010) (Message edited by luvrbus on September 02, 2010) |
