| Author |
Message |
woody48348 (66.208.219.185)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 10:19 am: | |
Has anyone with the Eagle 20 had the road speed changed from the NJT speed of 67mph? Detroit Diesel can't seem to access the computer, and they say there is second computer that is 1/2 the size as the DDEC on the engine. Does anyone know where this second unit is mounted in the Eagle 20?
Bob. |
Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20) (66.7.134.190)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:56 am: | |
There is only one ECU and inside there is an EEPROM chip that you "burn" the program into and is the reference for all logic everytime you power up the ECU.
I have burned a new program into my ECU and there is only one ECU on my Eagle 20 that is related to the engine. There is an ECU for the Allison transmission but it is totally independent and does not need any changes to get the speed increase.
I suggest that you find another shop that knows what they are doing because it truly is as simple as this:
Give the shop your engine serial number (if you don't have it, they can connect to the computer and get it electronically.
The shop will modem into the Detriot mainframe and indicate the serial number. At that time they will be presented with a number of programming options that are allowed for your engine serial number. You should actively participate in the selection of choices. For your engine you could step up to 330hp or 350hp and more choices with different combinations of torque. Your choice really.
I chose 350hp with 1020 torque. Be aware that the unit is most likely set up for 300hp and 1050 torque. Yes, more torque. But without a curve you really don't know where the peaks are located and how it will apply.
Also, there are a number if other options that you may want to turn on in the ECU such as cruise control, engine auto shut down for oil and temp and time at low idle. You can also turn off the throttle limiter or the "smoke control" which will allow the engine to come off the line a little faster but at the risk of blowing a little smoke. |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.188)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:57 am: | |
The road speed is determined by the rear end/differential gear ratio, not the engine governor. Your engine should be set at 2250 no load/2100 full load on the governor. The change you want to make on the DDEC is the horsepower setting-- it is probably set at 277 HP with the ability to change it to 315 or even 350 depending on which 6V92TA you have.
I might add that it is my understanding that the NJ Transit buses were set at EPA standards for transit engines, which meant they had the special pistons and cams with low horsepower and cleaner burning exhaust, so your DDEC is probably set to transit specifications. |
woody48348 (66.208.219.185)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 1:04 pm: | |
Greg,
I am helping out a friend. Since my original post, I informed him to inform to the Williams DD people, it was a DDEC II, they had their computer setup for a DDEC I. However, they then interfaced their computer to the ECU, and were unable to establish any communication with his ECU, and figured it to have an internal problem. So he drove away without any new programming. I am scheduled to take my own rig into Williams DD next Monday and hope to have more success with the programming than my friend. What horsepower was your bus set to. I was told NJT had them set to the lowest setting of 275HP. Williams DD said the only thing they program is the road speed. The HP is what it is. This doesn't sound to be correct in your experience.
Bob. |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.174.162)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 2:09 pm: | |
The Williams Detroit dealer in Las Vegas could not promise me that they could change the computer on my DDEC II. He said it depended upon whether the link was up or not.
I tried Phoenix and they said to just stop by, no need to book it in. They do it all the time and it only takes about an hour or so. They also said that they do not charge for removing speed restrictions only for reprogramming the power settings as it involves more than a just a switch being turned off.
A hand held computer reader, with the right card, can turn off speed controls and do other minor functions. This only takes them a few minutes to do.
The Phoenix guys suggested I had a Low Power Check done to make sure the motor was running to full efficiency, I wonder what they will find.... LOL.
Peter. |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.122.22)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 2:25 pm: | |
Isn't DDEC fun? I had no idea they could control your engine so much. Thank goodness I have a user-friendly mechanical governor!
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
Bob Gallo (65.66.156.232)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:45 pm: | |
If you have or care to buy DDDL(Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link), and you have your ECU password, you can do operational programming yourself. This would include Cruise enable, rpm limt, and yes, there is a speed limit seperate from an RPM limit. If enabled, you can and will be limited on top speed seperate from RPM. It also has this "power limit" function where if there is an engine fault, before shutdown it will let you go but at reduced power. For example, if the engine overheats, the check engine light goes on about 214 but will not shut the engine down until about 220. In the meantime, you're running but puny. Also a couple of handy diagnostic tools.
I've just had the chance to play with DDDL without the DD guy around. It's really handy but I think the total cost is about $1400. The program is on a CD for installation on a laptop, then you need an adapter/processor (it has lights on it) that converts the 232 out of the PC to the com bus of the ECU and an adapter cable. It had a bunch of graphic and numerical displays for real time engine monitoring. Too bad the dash doesn't have this stuff.
A problem we ran into was if the unit was "Federalized" and the agency the bus originally came from didn't send a written release to DD, they will not break in the back door to change power settings, etc. This could be a problem with NJT as it is with the metro transits.
That being said, I tend to agree with Geoff. |
Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20) (24.175.223.137)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:52 pm: | |
Woody,
Make sure the dealer pulls the cables and connects directly to the computer. This means that the technician will need to use a special box that to adapt to the unit and also provides power for the ECU. Most dealers understand this but some don't.
They dealer tried to connect to my unit through the connections on the air filter side of the unit. This set up did not work most likely because we did not understand how to set up the switches.
My horsepower was set up at 300HP and there is no special internals in the engine. Also, the relation between engine speed is in fact a direct mechanical calculation as Geoff mentions below, however, the governor is electronic and is exclusively controlled by the DDEC II ECU and in accordance with the particular algorithm choice that Detroit has pre-determined to be allowed for the build of your engine. You can go up to 350HP. Also, you can use a small handheld program device to make some changes (not govern speed and HP), but a computer, a link to Detroit and a sharp technician is needed for the HP and torque change.
I am speaking from experience and I went every step of the way with the Detroit tech to get the ECU set up the way I wanted it to be.
Good luck! |
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