| Author | Message | ||
| Matt (198.253.206.243) Rating: N/A |
I have been looking, lurking and asking lots of questions to just about anyone who will listen and respond about conversions. My soon-to-be-wife and I have agreed that a motorhome is in our future, and I have ascertained that a conversion is the best bet - safety, longevity and resale are the three top reasons...but you all know that. That said, I am drawn toward the lower profile buses (GMC) vice MCI (less the 5's), Eagle, Prevost....etc. However, I am concerned about winter use since the lower profile buses seem to generally offer less insulation and opportunity to use in the winter. I have been hunting - but continue to come up empty handed. Am I wasting my time looking for a low profile that has the amenities to winter camp? Thanks in advance, Matt | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
Matt - Your question seems to be a little confusing. . . What do you mean by "low profile"? Overall height? Socially (like someone who keeps a low profile in a social setting)? Are you looking for a single-deck 35-foot coach, such as a 4104, 4106 or MC-5? How about the single deck MC-7, 8, or 9, at 40 feet? Maybe the RTS, in either 35 or 40 foot models? Would one of the rare 35 foot Prevosts fit the bill? Or are you talking about any coach that hasn't had it's roof raised? Why do you think the ". . .lower profile buses seem to generally offer less insulation and opportunity to use in the winter"?? If you could clarify your request somewhat, it would help. RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Matt (198.253.206.243) Rating: N/A |
RJ, Essentially I have been looking at 35ft'ers. Weekend use and a couple vacation trips a year is what I am looking at - and 40ft is just not required. So indeed it is the GMCs and the MCI-5A's that have caught my attention. I guess it does boil down to non-roof raised rigs. I have a seen a couple of the 35 Prevosts - and indeed they too catch my eye, but typically are $20K more that the GMCs and MCIs. I am not sure if that clarifies what I am looking at or not...with respect to the non-roof raised units, I am concerned that there would not be enough room to properly insulate. I know that the tanks and lines can be configured to keep them from freezing - lights, heat strips etc...but with the intention of using it in cold weather, and shoping here from southern California (will be moving back east soon), I generally found that most sellers have never had their rigs in cold weather and provide the "I am not sure how well it will be in sub-zero temps..." | ||
| FAST FRED (67.75.113.124) Rating: N/A |
REInsulating the coach will not solve the problem, as the problem IS that the handy coaches have a relitavily huge amount of glass area. This keeps them light and a delight to be inside , but costs heat. Simplest is to use 2 layers of clear 4mill plastic , you swimg out the windows wrap the plastic and carefully close & lock. VIOLLA tripple insularted for pennies! The plastic can be very smooth and is no hassle to see or drive with (on side windows). Do the rear window with the tape from HD and a removable for the front windshield and D & Door windows. For biger bucks there is an excellent product called Warmshases )on line) that has an R value of 7 . This is 4X what dual pain bus windows will provide , at far less cost. A heavy rug liner with a Bathroom carpet cut to fit will help the floor. The Bathroom carpet is Machine Washable , so mid season you can clean up some mud tracked in. If your coach intereior has not been sledghammered the origonal insulation is quite effective , as its all sealed in moisture proof bags. Sure some foams have a higher R value , but after being waterloged ( if you cook or breath) are usually poorer than stock. As you will be doing this for a limited time , and a coach is a limited area , any small inefficency doesn't matter , it just translates to a higher fuel burn , NOT being cold. I sugest the Dickinson line of marine ranges and furnaces. These require NO electric to operate and will produce about 20,000 btu each. A large gravity tank and you could do 100 days with out moving , or running the noisemaker. FAST FRED | ||
| FAST FRED (67.75.113.124) Rating: N/A |
PS , To solve the water freeze problem it is only a bit more work , and a bunch more planning to have ALL the conversion goodies inside the heated area above floor level. Just build them into the bottom of cabinets. We have a very flat set of tanks (Duracast FL ) that are only 11 inches high and hold 50gal of Fresh and the same in combined Grey/Black that give us a weeks worth of endurance. By locating all the water stuff aft , we open the bath door into the isle to isolate the back (water tank & pump & hot water heater area). Then when NOT ABOARD we use a catalytic widdow maker that keeps everything from freezing . When breathing coach air, we use a Suburban 42,000 Btu INPUT (about 30,000 output) and have been to zero F, with out any rugs or window treatments. But it runs a LOT!! Works for us, FAST FRED | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.195.69)
Rating: N/A |
If you're really worried about freezinf then maybe a highway coach with bays would be better. Anything that stands a chance of freezing can go in a bay and be heated. If you did an RTS or similar, you might have to put everything (tanks, wtaer lines, etc.) above deck which would eat into your usable floor space. If I were building a bus for winter use, I would also go with a diesel fired baseboard heating system. The propane furnaces work OK (thats what I have now), but for hardcore winter use, a Webasto furnace will do much better. The Webasto ties right into your engine cooling system and acts as an engine pre-heater as well. The downside is the cost, but you get what you pay for. Ross | ||
| David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (64.24.236.149)
Rating: N/A |
Matt, This is why we convert our own! If you have a special circumstance that is not normally addressed in a pre-converted unit then you do one yourself. We also need to stay in colder temps (Southern Appalachian Mtns). While it doesn't stay at a solid freeze all winter, we do get cold spells (up to a month long) where the temps will drop to single digits. We don't have the luxury (or $$) to head further South since David works in the area. So we are setting up (insulation/warm waterbays/heat system) for winter use. For a pre-converted unit: if there is enough insulation to keep out the heat then it will stay warm in the winter. You can get thermal "blankets" for your windows. You will probably need to upgrade the heat system (Webasto unit to heat space/water/engine?) and keep your tanks (fresh & holding) above freezing. Insulation & a heat duct will do the trick for your tanks or you can use an electic pad (waterbed heater pad is a fairly cheap way) but bear in mind that with a winter power outage your tanks could freeze. David keeps saying things like I haven't really seen snow and stuff like that...He's from Mighigan and talks about walking out a 2nd floor window onto the snow..to me, that indicates you should head to warmer climes. I think he wants to do a couple of winter trips up North. Bummer, No sweet iced tea and no grits, except what I make and everyone talks funny yet they don't understand what I say. Lorna | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess) (65.154.177.66)
Rating: N/A |
It has been stated repeatedly that Webasto and Espar diesel fired furnaces use a lot of battery power. Prevost coaches have urethane insulation from the factory. Often you can find a good deal in a converted coach that will meet your needs and you do not have to do your own conversion. Fast Freds idea of tanks in the living area is good, especially for fresh water, which can go under the bed. Tanks can also be insulated and warmed in a bay. | ||
| FAST FRED (67.75.106.182) Rating: N/A |
Marks comment is right on, There is a HUGE difference in how a coach would be outfitted for independant living , rather than stuck plugged in to the electric grid. My assumption is hunting is done pretty far from the PP (Power Post). ( Unless your hunting URBANS). A furnace with hot water heat and NO Powered baseboards will use lots less amps than toe kicks. But with fine silent, electric free equipment avilable Off The Shelf , why bother? FAST FRED | ||
| matt (198.253.206.213) Rating: N/A |
Hmmmm....thanks for the input - guess it is not as big of a deal as I had thought - and as pointed out, so long as there is a 80% solution, the other bits and pieces can be had for a reasonable expense. As for completing a conversion on my own - though the sense of accomplishment would be a great mid-life triumph...there are tooooo many rigs out there that are going for much less than what I can do myself, and without a dedicated workshop...much cheaper than what I would fair on my own. Suppose the point is I need to keep looking...I know it is out there...I can hear her purring in the distance... Thanks again, Matt | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
Matt - Email me directly, I know of a finished 4106 that's available not too far from me, which means it's not too far from you. Just click on my name in blue above. RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| FAST FRED (67.75.110.27) Rating: N/A |
With all the Quickie "Total Electric Coaches'(TEC) being passes off as campers (to camp with the noisemaker running most of the time) or look frantically for the few % of campgrounds with BIG 240V power, I would advise a long talk with the convirter before visiting , unless your hot to completly toss the TEC stuff and reinstall independant camping goodies. It can be expensive to toss all the house stuff and find and install real no volts equipment. Unfortunatly the life style and capabilites you desire are quite RARE in a coach, as so many can not survive for long sans PP. Do the equipment & outfitting research FIRST ! , or you could get stuck heating bays 24/7 instead of the hunting crew. There are many posts concerning HOW to inspect a coach and how to get it checked out , in the archives of this site. FAST FRED | ||
| CoryDaneRTSIIIL (66.155.188.159) Rating: N/A |
Has anyone calculated, or, WHAT kind of bus do you have and how many BTU furnace do you have and what is the coldest that it can handle? Perhaps this is a better or more informational way to looking into this subject and I as well am interested in the answer. "Imagine Your Dreams" cd | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.195.22)
Rating: N/A |
MC9 with foam in the ceiling and a 40,000BTU suburban propane furnace. At temps above -10, the furnace would cycle normally and keep the bus at 65. At temps below -10, it wanted to run all the time, but it still maintained 65 degrees right down to -30. Last winter was a good one to test your heating system.  The downside is the fuel burn. One 40Lb cylinder every two days it temps around +10 to -10. If you wanted to spend a week or two skiing, you shouldn't be parked too far from a propane fill station....Or carry some extra cylinders. This, of course, would not be an issue with a diesel fired furnace. It would probably take a month or more for a Webasto to burn 140 gallons of diesel fuel. Ross | ||
| FAST FRED (67.75.111.226) Rating: N/A |
When it gets cold again YOU can figgure the BTU for your coach easily. Wait till its nice & cold and unstall an electric heater of known output. Measure the outside temp & inside temp before daybrake and you have it. The number of degrees of heat you get for a known power input is pretty linear. In other words if 5000btu gives a 5 deg temp rise , and you plan on being inside with the outside 100 deg cooler it will take 20X the btu. Be very wary as most heater sellers only want to talk about BTU as an INPUT (how much fuel it could burn). Remember most furnaces are only 75% efficent and real output is what keeps youy warm. FAST FRED |