| Author |
Message |
Adam P (64.236.221.6)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 4:47 am: | |
Wow!!!! Was I lucky to post with you guys (and gals) More helpful information than I would have ever expected!!! I wanted to write sooner, but then another helpful post would come in, and I thought.... Let me wait a minute to see if I get any more replies.... Like I said, Wow, just stellar!!!!
OK while I have a few OT things on my mind, let me take care of this...
Fast Fred, I would be more than happy to give your walking tractor a wonderful new home!!! And I have several David Bradleys...I seem to recall you travel to Fla too... umm.... I wonder what it would take to meet up with you down south.... I get to Fla much more often then I do Conn.... But then again, I might have to make the trip up north!!!! (Besides, you know that I'd love to see your coach!!!)
David & Lorna Schinske- Lorna, I too have a Ford N-series tractor, mine's a 1946 2N, (later than a 9N, just before the 8N) Parts are very easy to come by for these tractors.... Yesterdays Tractors sells lots of parts for them www.ytmag.com is there site, also you could try www.just8ns.com as well. At the ytmag site, you will also find one of the best Ford N series discussion forums there is. (You might even get a reply from me!!!)
Moving onward...
Ed-NJ Thanks for the Rad/Cad Skoolie pic!
Vern1, John, Gary, FF, Two Dogs, David & Lorna, JMaxwell, Phil, & Johnny thank you for the very insightful and thorough posts!!! Very helpful, and things I will be mindful of...
Now for the actual follow up part. (Yes I know, very long post, they'll be shorter from here on out!!!)
We're still looking at the school bus route. After contemplating a truck (although a great idea) we think it still might be to big. I did however have visions of grandeur when thinking of an Airstream mounted to a 6x6 Autocar!!!! The two of us spent a bit of time jumping in and out of buses and trucks and actually re-thought the size of the eight row, mid size bus and thought that might be to big as well. After revisiting (a few times) a 6 row "Short bus", we concluded this might be our best size. It also appears that the Blue Bird body offers the most head room. (At least the ones we saw) And the maintenance on these guys is unreal. I would say, I've now seen 15 to 20 different buses, and maybe 10 or so trucks and older motor homes, and the difference is like night and day. The engines on the buses are really clean, and it seems like there new. I'll admit a bit noisy though.... So the sound proofing tips will really come in handy.
Is it true you have to remove the interior sheet metal to reinsulate??? Not sure that’s all.
Anyway, so much more reading to do.....
Thanks again everyone
Adam P
apaudvid@aol.com
PS I wanted to apologize to anyone owning a "hippy bus" from my last post... And wanted to say, that those on a really tight budget, still managed to make something work, and got a chance to motor down the road and spend time with there family and see places they might not have otherwise seen. And that's a good thing. (And I should thank my Sherry for that observation.) Good call. No offence meant. |
wannabebusnut (199.177.63.2)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:37 am: | |
Have you thought of the "Toterhomes" or "Motorhomes with a Gararge"? These might be another route that would be of use for you. Here is a company that produces brand new units.
http://www.kibbi.com
I don't have any experience with this company, but the idea is interesting. |
FAST FRED (67.75.106.182)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 3:31 pm: | |
If you can handle a Different concept ,
perhaps you should look for a Superior Motorhome.
All finished & running the Best are only 5 to 10K for a great MH made by a SKOOL BUS company.
They are the only (besides BB) old motorhome to come off a Skoolie assembly line , that WILL take a rollover .
All Galvanized the paint didn't look superb the day it left the works , but they last almost forever and are avalible in 20 ,22, 24 and even a 27 if you wish for a bathtub to carry stuff in.
The old 440 REAL MOTORHOME ,(not car) engines are easy to fix at any NAPA.
Ran one to AK from FL & back and it happily never missed a beat.
Also frequently towed a 7000 lb trailer with only a hitch & equalizer, all legal.
Might work for you.
AS to the walking tractor , come & get it in CT.
The bay space in our conversion is as usual too full of "stuff" during our semianual migration to consider anything THAT big!
Take a look at any old Superior , you might like what you see!
Also the GAS 30ft Blue Bird Wanderlodges can be had for $10 to 20K and have known resale value and are fine very simple MH.
FAST FRED |
Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach) (206.163.13.86)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 10:56 pm: | |
As usual, FF has some good things to say. I would tend to agree with just about everything he has had to say on this subject.
If you do decide to go the Skoolie way and convert your own bus, make sure the bus you purchase is worth your time and effort to convert.
In today's market, you can find many very serviceable school buses for less than $2K. When I say serviceable, I mean a bus that has tires with a lot of life left in them (tubless radials are preferred), an engine that starts and runs without any problems, the body is straight and clean without any rust, and the bus drives straight down the road.
Don't make the mistake of purchasing a bus just because it is available now.
The other caution I would give to you is to stay away from the Type 'A' and Type 'B' school buses that are on cut-away or flat cowl chassis. The Type 'A' has a van nose. The Type 'B' has the service door behind the driver and behind the front axle. Both types of buses do not have enough truck under the bus. They are plagued with problems that are a direct result of always being at or above the GVWR of the bus.
Type 'C' buses, also known as conventionals, have a truck hood out front. These will be the least expensive to purchase since they make up over 60% of the school bus market. An IHC will be the most common since they have been the leader in school bus chassis for more than 30 years.
Type 'D' buses, also known as transits, come in front, rear, mid-mount engine locations. These will be more expensive to purchase but could be less expensive to operate over time. The only downside for you is the shorter wheelbase Type 'D' buses tend to hop down the road rather than roll.
Inside headroom varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Standard is usually 70-76" with optional as much as 78".
As someone who has driven just about every type and kind of yellow bus, I can tell you they will go just about any place you can drive a crew cab pick-up. The newer buses with short wheelbases and 50 degree cut angles on the front axle will turn sharper than a crew cab long box pick-up.
Good luck and happy trails.
Mark O. |
Johnny (67.241.224.31)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 1:50 am: | |
A cutaway van could be a good candidate for a conversion--many have GVWR of 14,000lbs or more (Ford E-450/E-Super Duty). However, they're kind of small. I don't follow about a "type B".
While IH's are, indeed, the most common long-nose I see (usually powered by the T444E), I've also seen plenty of Blue Bird-bodied GMC's lately, & a bunch of Mercedes-powered, ThomasBuilt-bodied Freightliners. |
Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach) (204.245.228.236)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 9:28 am: | |
Yes some cut-aways have GVWR's of 14K or more but the weak link in them is the transmission. The E4OD or whatever they are calling it now was designed and built for the Aerostar and is not up to the task of 14K lbs. I know, I have three shuttles buses, one with a GVWR of 13,900 lbs., and have averaged about 35k miles between transmission rebuilds (look up the part numbers and you will find the Aerostar and Crown Vic torque convertor is the same as the E/F-450).
Newer large cut-aways are being built on IHC and Freightliner chassis. They have much heavier duty parts and pieces than the Ford so they are lasting better. But in order to get the GVWR they ride really hard.
Type 'B' school buses typically were built on GM P-series chassis. Now that GM no longer makes the P-series and sold the rights to someone else the parts and pieces could become a bit of a problem.
Mark O. |
Johnny (65.224.20.221)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 9:35 pm: | |
AEROSTAR?!?! You're joking, right?! The Aerostar has the Ford of France A4LD...the E4OD/4R100 is essentially an electronic C6 wirth OD. Not as tough an a C6 or Allison, but the new ones are pretty strong. It's NEVER been used in anything smaller than an F-250. |
Johnny (65.224.20.221)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 9:36 pm: | |
IIRC, the P-chassis is still being built by Workhorse (as the W chassis). |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 6:32 am: | |
Hey now, my shuttle had an E4OD, and an Aerostar could not have used that in any case, hardly could have even hauled it as cargo, big sucker! Must be a misprint or misunderstanding there someplace. The one in my shuttle bus went 230k miles in daily service behind a powerstroke before giving up, but I agree the old ones had a short service life, generally around 100k it seems. |
Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach) (204.245.250.168)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:27 pm: | |
I am not about to call into question the intergrity and veracity of anyone on this board. Mostly because I know many of you out there are older and much more experienced than I am. However, I am more experienced in E4OD transmissions than I care to be. (I have three mini buses with the 7.3L/E4OD power package. In the last four years I have replaced three transmissions in one bus, two in the second bus, and one in the third--average life span 35K miles.)
To start with, the E4OD does use some common parts with the C6--some input shafts come to mind. But the entire electronic package and the way it operates the transmission came directly out of the AL100 transmission that is found in the Aerostar.
In other words, the E4OD is a jumped up version of the Aerostar transmission and really has very little in common with the C6. The hydralically shifted C6 has nothing in common with the electronically shifted AL100/E4OD/4L100 transmissions. If you were able to hook one up to a 7.3L diesel you would top out at about 47 MPH and blow up either the engine or the transmission very quickly.
After conversing with my transmission techie, I have come to the conclusion that our local topography and engine choice has more to do with my transmission mortality rate than anything else.
Some colleagues of mine in the Seattle area run similar sized buses 100K+ miles without significant transmission problems. The difference is they are running gas engines on city runs.
The vibration from the power strokes on a diesel engine create more vibration than the transmission can handle. My techie reports he replaces 4-5 transmissions behind diesels for every gasser he does.
We travel US30 west from Rainier to Astoria, OR every day. Between Rainier and Astoria the road goes seriously up and down four different times with the grade a minimum of 7% and the shortest grade more than a mile. Even the best of power packages will suffer that sort of abuse every day.
Some may consider I have problems with drivers or poor maintenance. I would agree if we were the only ones experiencing the problem. But that would not explain why the local Ford garage has had to do at least six R&R's on the brand new transmission this summer and they have a back room stacked to the ceiling with E4OD/4L100 transmissions waiting to be sent back to Ford.
Would I purchase another Ford chassis mini-bus? Not in my lifetime unless it came with the bus packed with replacement transmissions.
Mark O. |
DonGeneda (66.82.9.41)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 7:19 am: | |
Well, you might be onto something there about the hills, mine never left the midwest flatlands. |
Johnny (67.242.221.189)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 9:26 pm: | |
"In other words, the E4OD is a jumped up version of the Aerostar transmission and really has very little in common with the C6. The hydralically shifted C6 has nothing in common with the electronically shifted AL100/E4OD/4L100 transmissions. If you were able to hook one up to a 7.3L diesel you would top out at about 47 MPH and blow up either the engine or the transmission very quickly."
Looking at an E4OD and an A4LD side by side, it is crystal-clear they share no internal parts. BTW, the A4LD has been aorund since the early 80's, & in many other applications in addition to the Aerostar.
The C6 was used behind THOUSANDS of 7.3 diesel engines. My friend has one in an E-350 cutaway.
The low-gear parts of an E4OD will fit a C6, IIRC.
We get about 75-100K out of the E4OD/4R100's in the PSD buses at work. |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.41.249.117)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 10:18 am: | |
As a mechanic trying to understand an out of the ordinary failure rate, the bit that was fairly eye opening:"...up and down 4 different times with the grade a minimum of 7%". That just shouts to me.
I might suggest draining and flushing the transmissions on a regular basis and the installation of an additional tranny cooler, perhaps even an additional spin on tranny filter and a drain plug brazed into the bottom of the tranny pan, if there isn't one already...
I think if your tranny guy is reporting a higher failure rate with diesel driven transmissions it may be a result of the same hilly terrain added to the greater relative torque of diesel engines. I feel certain that no manufacturer is subjecting a test fleet to conditions you are operating under and also feel safe in saying that often a transmission or engine
that is considered a world beater in one area of the country, might often be thought of as a boat anchor in another, for varying reasons. |
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