| Author |
Message |
clottjr (68.19.95.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 6:20 pm: | |
I know this has been re-hashed a number of times, and I apologise for not have written it down somewhere. Here's the question, for those who know and are tolerant.
From the re-power conversations, there have been suggestions about other brand engines (from Trucks)than the DD to repower a MCI.
Does the engine from a donor Road Tractor ( I assume all have the same rotation direction in trucks?) have the correct rotation for a MCI? A friend has a 8V92 in a road tractor and wondered if it would work in a bus? (Specifically MCI) |
Bill Gerrie (216.185.72.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 8:21 pm: | |
The only buses tha used the left hand rotation engine were GMC and early Western Flyer. These had an engine assembly that sat across the back of the bus. The other type where the engine assembly is in a "T" formation are right hand turning packages. That is the back of the engine faces the rear end assembly. Hope this helps. Bill |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 8:24 pm: | |
those Transverse DD's were given the "N" designation, weren't they? as in 6/71N.
I have two "Vehicles", each with a pair of DD's in them, one turns right, one turns left.
Gary |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 8:57 pm: | |
I think the N is for Normally aspirated, as opposed to for instance TA for Turbo Aftercooled, right? |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 9:11 pm: | |
I don't know if you can call any DD "Normally Aspirated", given the presence of a supercharger.
Gary |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.121.115)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 9:22 pm: | |
The blower on a Detroit 2-cycle is not a "supercharger"-- it is the air supply for the 2-cycle engine. A blower becomes a supercharger when it supplies more air than is normally used, like when you bolt one on to a gas engine or a Cummins diesel.
Also, all the V-drive Detroit engines in buses are left hand rotation, T-drives use RH engines, and an 8V92 from a truck will work in an MCI (same rotation) with some modifications to engine.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 9:42 pm: | |
OK, let me jump in here and "corn-fuzzle" the troops:
~ In response to the original post, all MCIs use RH rotation engines, the same as 18-wheelers. Plumbing for intake and exhaust will have to be modified to install a truck engine. GMC and other makes that installed their engines sideways across the rear of the coach use LH rotating powerplants. (Altho toward the end of production, Flxible and some others used RH engines w/ either Allison VR-731s or Voith gearboxes)
~ Non-turbocharged Detroit two-cycle engines do, in fact, have a Rootes-type supercharger, but the factory considers them "naturally aspirated". The "N" designation has nothing to do with the rotation, it only signifies a non-turbocharged unit.
~ The rotation of the engine is coded into the model/serial number on the block, but that is true only for when it first left the factory. . . who knows what may or may not have happened at rebuild time. Only way to check for sure is to look at the position of the camshaft idler gears on the back of the engine. . .
~ Finally, the 8V92 will work in an MCI, but you MUST increase the cooling capacity to handle this beast.
Clear as mud??
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Doug (68.83.22.146)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 9:46 pm: | |
I thought the N was the DD designation for the 4 valve head
no designation was for 2 valve head and turbos are TA |
clottjr (68.19.95.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 10:05 pm: | |
How much is the weight difference between an 8V71 and the 8V92? I believe that Ive read the 871 weighs 2300 lbs |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.121.115)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 11:16 pm: | |
clottjr--
The 92 will be a little heavier than the 8V71 (not a big deal), but you have to look closely at the engine arrangement to see how much stuff you have to change over to make the 92 work. For instance, the front pulley on the crankshaft is bound to be different, the water pump may have the wrong angle outlet on it, and the flywheel housing may be different. You will have to upgrade and re-route the air intake and filter and the exhaust pipes. See if the turbo will clear the engine compartment. The radiators and cooling fans will also have to be upgraded.
--Geoff |
Jayjay (198.81.26.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 1:22 am: | |
M-O-N-E-Y is all it takes to change to a given engine/tranny. I'm currently playing with an Eagle with a 441 Cummins stuffud up it's a**. Cap't Joe Laird up in Alaska has a beautifully installed 500(?) H.P. something or other in his "Royal Eagle", And Greg Bush over in Oklahoma, has a 600 H.P. Cat slid in the back of his GMC SceniCruiser, which was originally a transverse mounted 255 H.P. 8V71. (left hand) BTW, this beast will squall the tires on dry pavement, and the MPH tops out well over the Century mark. (If I remember correctly it only weighs about 21K lbs.) Can you imagine enough H.P to "drift" a 40 footer through a turn, and and be able to "light'em up" coming out of it?????? Wheeee !!!! Cheers...JJ |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 2:13 am: | |
Ah, JJ . . .
The Scencruisers never were a V-drive coach.
They were always a T-drive configuration, originally with two 4-71s tied together w/ a fluid coupling into a three-speed transmission w/ a splitter, giving 6 speeds.
When the 8V71 came out in late 1959, Greyhound began a massive repower program for the 900+ coaches still in operation. Marmon-Herrington got the contract for the work. The two fours were replaced with the 8V71 and the good old four-speed Spicer - the same one as found in the 4106 and later, but w/o the V-drive castings. Radiator and rear access doors were also changed over.
This powertrain swap proved to be the ticket to making the coach extremely dependable - so much so that they remained in the fleet until the mid-70s, longer than any other model before or since.
Just a little Scenic trivia for you. . .
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Jeff (Jeff) (68.10.0.78)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 9:17 am: | |
I learned something here. I thought the 6n71 was an inline six cylinder like my Ford Pick Up 300 cid 4.9L / 6 or the 6n71 in a Crown Supercoach mounted on it's side. 6v71, 8v71, 6v92 or 8v92 is V drive rather it is turbo or not. Help! The V drive or T drive mentioned in the 730v, 731v or 740 is transmission and not associated with the motor identify numbers.........
Jeff
"Take Another Road"
Rustless not Busless in Buckroe
1988 TMC RTS-06
da Bubba |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.39.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 9:27 am: | |
Good grief, how more confused can everyone get over established engine and transmission numbers.
6v71, 8v92, 8v71, 6v92..... the V is for the V design in the motor like a Chevy V-8, not for a V-drive.
T or TA is for Turbo or Turbo Aftercooled.
I have never seen or heard of a 730 in a T-drive formation or a 740 in a V-drive formation.
Peter. |
Derek (24.66.241.23)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 2:49 pm: | |
My understanding is that:
8v71 is a V engine;
6-71 is an inline engine;
8v71T is a Turbo, not aftercooled;
8v92TA is turbocharged, aftercooled;
Not sure about the N specification, I ad a page up that explained all that but I've lost it. |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.22)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 3:29 pm: | |
With the 71 series the "N" can be confusing. The way I believe it works is that a 6-71"N" series designates that it uses the higher compression pistons and N-injectors. "NA" would stand for Naturally Aspirated in any of the engine groups. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.135.55)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 5:43 pm: | |
I took a moment and looked up 6-71N, and Sure enough, it appears that the N designation has more to do with Injectors than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if the Four-Valve head was right.
this is a lesson on being careful what you repeat, I read on another list that I belong to that the N was related to the "Lay down" model and rotation, but with a little investigation this appears to be incorrect.
Although my post was as much of a question as a statement, sorry if I steered anyone wrong.
Gary |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.24)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 6:39 pm: | |
Don't stop now, this is fun. In searching for 8V71NA, you come up with marine engines almost entirely. If you go for 8V71N you get truck engines it seems. Jim, where are you, you just came from DD school in LA, still got your books? |
two dogs (67.30.23.63)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 6:59 pm: | |
REALY...If I was going to go to all the trouble to "re power"...that new series 60 engine is a doll, so is a "cat"...the more horsepower ,the better...I drove a 400 horse & a 200 horse...they both got the same fuel mileage (BUT) the 200 horse was working it's ass off....both got 7m.p.g. pulling 80,000 pounds..... |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.135.55)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 7:01 pm: | |
I have DD's in my two Steel (Read: Rust) boats.
My Bus has a Kitty in the back.
I might TI the 8V72's one day, but that's aftere she's back in the water.
I used to know about 6 6-72's in a warehouse in the bay area, almost free for the taking.
Gary |
two dogs (67.30.23.63)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 7:18 pm: | |
yep....saw (4) 671 's on another board last night for 250.00 ea...bargains are great...guess it depends on what ya' run in to...also saw a series 60 (with jake) in a "truck" wrecking yard (wrecked truck) for 3000.00 low mileage... |
Phil Dumpster (12.230.214.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 10:38 am: | |
Anyone know if it is possible to graft a 740 and a v730 together to make a v740? |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 11:12 am: | |
Phil -
Interesting question. . . think maybe you should repost it as a new thread, rather than buried in a DDA rotation one?
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Smarty Pants (68.19.95.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 4:06 pm: | |
Phil, I believe that would be a 735! |