| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 468 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.1.255  Rating: N/A |
Sorry - Used to be I'd post this on one of the previous threads, but seems people don't 'go back' as much these days. Anyway... RE: batteries: Been reading everything I can find and came up with this: Trojan g.c. batts (4) for house and a pair of (paralleled) Group 27s coupled, temporarily, with my remaining 8D. The idea being, that when the 8D dies, I'll still be able to start with the two Group 27s (now that I'm south  ). Originally, I was going to hook a single Group 31 to the 8D, then buy another 31 when the 8D croaks. But then I'm back to square one, needing another battery. Plus, from what I read, two 27s give better balance (to the 8D) than one 31. And I read that Sean (Odyssey) gets by with 27s?? Grrrr. It's all clear as mud. Tony: Les wrote that you buy 'rebuilt' batteries (see 'Vanner / Battery Overview' post). Can you elaborate, maybe guide me in the right direction? So what do you folks think? Thanks for your thoughts. Nellie PS. Jack C.: Don't know if you got back to the post, but thanks again for the assist with Mike (BCM). I'll shoot you a PM about Arcadia. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 228 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 67.141.79.197  Rating: N/A |
It kinda depends on how long your Visa is good for. Without a Visa your allowed to stay six months. If that ends up in the colder weather of the northern part of Texas, you'll need more robust batteries. If you are going to become an ex-pat here or farther south, the group 27's will serve just fine. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 229 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 67.141.79.197 Rating: N/A |
It kinda depends on how long your Visa is good for. Without a Visa your allowed to stay six months. If that ends up in the colder weather of the northern part of Texas, you'll need more robust batteries. If you are going to become an ex-pat here or farther south, the group 27's will serve just fine. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 314 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 69.171.161.53  Rating: N/A |
Thanks Dal, without that second post I would have never figured out what you were trying to say. Next time try publishing the 2nd post in ALL CAPS that way the rest of us know you're serious! (and those of us who are deaf will finally understand what you are trying to say) Pay no attention to that RED X in the upper right corner...... it ONLY applies to us that live in the other 49 & anyone from Alberta. TEXAS...more than a state of mind.. it's Pathogenic!! | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.211.254.155 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, i would just sell or give away the 8D and buy 2 group 31's. I have been real happy with mine and don't miss wrasslin with the D's. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 469 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.11.123 Rating: N/A |
Well, heck, Dal, never considered that 'visa' thing. I'll mention that to the batt store clerk; I'm sure he'll have some great ideas . Kidding aside, this old gal (the bus!)won't ever see north of 35 degrees (latitude) again... unless it's WAY west, like wherever lunker trout still live. And, even then, only in fly fishing season (for you that live in catfish country, that's summer). Ed: I won't "miss wrasslin with the D's" either. But being financially challenged (poor), I need to extend my meager funds. So I don't want to dump a perfectly good (still working) 8D - wanna run the sucker 'til it dies, but not get stuck. (What a rip, these 8Ds - from my limited experience, way overrated... and overpriced). But, judging from your post, maybe I should go back to my original idea (pair one 31 with the 8D)? Jack: Whats the red X do? Nellie | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 230 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 67.141.79.197 Rating: N/A |
Jack, if it's worth sayin' it demands sayin' twice for those of you in tuxedos living in Arizona.... Just Sayin.... | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 471 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.11.123 Rating: N/A |
Wow, Dal! You said a wicked mouthful. Tuxedos? Should see the pic of Jack holding up the Tom Mix Memorial sign. A 'shovel ready' stimulus job is my guess (no shovel required). Opppps. Sorry Jack Nothin' much sacred around here. Nellie | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1170 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.56.244.104 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Whatever you do, DON'T series a large one wth a small one! I know what I said about doing it, (half disharging a little one while only 1/4 discharging a big one) but it was mostly for argument's sake. I will let you parallel two of any size... G | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 224 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213  Rating: N/A |
Nellie Here in Edmonton ( way north or 35) we have a place called "Battery Doctor" they rebuild some and sell some used/ tested batteries. When I called them they could sell me matched 8Ds for $80 each with a warranty. I would look more closely at why you are having so many battery problems. It maybe you have another problem that is causing failure. Over charging or under charging can both drastically reduce the life of any battery. Did you ever determine if you have a 12 volt draw on the chassis batteries and if you do did you check into the equalizer? Les | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 315 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 69.171.161.241 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Les for keeping this thread on topic frankly all this talk about "D's" & double "D's" with a strange woman on the internet tubes in public and with lots of guys reading whose drool buckets are awash is a tad adventurous... I mean she's probably a city girl to boot! When you go on & on like that I almost forget my point!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANAYWAY... back to the serious silliness... When Arizona was granted statehood they demanded that there be a state between them & Texas & as Dal so graphically demonstrates the reason for the demand continues to self validate. Nellie.. . . . . You're likely expecting a tome to "the evils that befall those who violate email confidences by publishing them on say a public forum" where Yackles like Farnworth, Martinez & ...what's his name...???....oh yea... MARSton Lurk, like Demon's in the trees to take advantage of the innocent those with hopes & dreams (& very little money or sense) and wreck their evil & wicked ways upon those whose innocence shines like a light before them. If it wasn't for these Internet Tubes I'd be lookin for the likes of them day & night armed with the sword of truth and fortified with a bottle of cheap wine.... now you know why I was leanin against the sign post. I was trollin' AND... even though there's another black mark behind your name in my book I'll ignore your tiny little indiscretion chalk it up a single error committed by one who makes innocent errors like not waiting & buying a 4106 for instance... oh Ye who have little patience may you become Doctors for Midgets... Nah.. I ain't in the mood for no long winded retorts with snappy lines filled with Entendre's du Troix or douce for that matter too busy spreading holiday cheer lookin for wicked Demons and preparing a ditch for FooHorse I'll bet you wonder about him...eh? There's guy who does a real life comic book strip about him some people see humor in it I think the guy is taking advantage of Foo's special "gifts" you can have a look here http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/1998-05-11/index.html I have to go calibrate my rangefinder now... 'tis the season to be making "deliveries'...! Parump! pa pa pum..thump (last line of a Burlesque Christmas Carroll) (Message edited by Jack Fids on December 22, 2010) | ||
| tony denny (Papatony)
Registered Member Username: Papatony Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2010 Posted From: 74.206.82.239 Rating: N/A |
Nellie: I used to buy all new batterys for the road trucks until I noticed that the rebuilt ones were lasting as long or longer than the new ones.I never had any trouble with them. That all I use in the bus. Another place to get a good buy is where they sell batterys for big trucks Some drivers will replace batt. ever so often some time trading in good batt.Being (challanged) no need to waste good bucks for nothing | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 475 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.2.124 Rating: N/A |
Jack - What was that last "thump?" Unnerving. Did you slip off the sign? Or was that a penquin felled by a polar bear? George sez: "I will let you parallel two of any size..." So, George, does two 27s (paralleled) and in series with the 8D work for you? If so, how about tying in ONE 27 now (just to start this thing and get it on ramps) and tying in the 2nd 27 before driving any distance? You know, to streetch the $$ a little further, OR would it be better to re-hook the 8Ds and start the bus (using a batt charger on the bad one), then unhook them after shutdown? Or does that risk damaging other components? Side Note: I just remembered... when I bought the bus (before buying my first set of 8Ds), it had one small battery tied to a larger (but smaller than an 8D) battery. Drove it from northern Ontario to northern Quebec like that. Several stops (one overnight), cold as hell, and no problems (well, no starting problems ) FWIW To be honest, I didn't even know where the batteries were located... somebody wiser would probably have replaced the batts first (or insisted the PO did). Les: No 12v leak (so far as I can tell). The center tap (which it once had) has long been disconnected and the Vanner is also disconnected. So where is the heck is the 12V power source? To answer your questions, I really haven't had a lot of battery problems (until now). The first set of 8Ds died in about 1 week, and I suspect they were junk to sart with. These 8Ds have gotten me through two tough winters and nearly two years of (intermittent) travel. And those winters, I think, took a heavy toll (you know the reasons, just from reading the board). The voltage reg is 28 (which I've been told is about right?) and I didn't make them 'drag' a cold engine (when up north). Seems so long as I DRIVE this thing, everything works pretty good. It's the parking that causes trouble. Still, I got what? Maybe 4 years, all told, of relatively trouble free service. As for the Vanner, think I've located a guy knows his way around these things. Otherwise, I'll follow that book you sent me and hope I don't screw up (I know, negative off first, on last ) If it checks out, I'll try to get it back on-line. Whew! That's a looong post. Sorry for bending your ear(s) like that. Nellie PS. Thanks, Tony. That's a good tip; castoffs suit me fine, so long as there's some decent service left in them. (Message edited by vivianellie on December 22, 2010) | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1151 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 75.204.254.69  Rating: N/A |
Nellie, you said all works great while running but goes down when parked. Are you turning your batteries off when parked? It could be a slight and slow drain on them like a bay light staying on. We refer to that as a phantom drain. It also could be a bad ground. Make sure all connections are good and clean. You might want to think about hooking up a battery charger while parked to keep your batteries charged. I have to do that to mine even. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1400 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.34  Rating: |
"(What a rip, these 8Ds - from my limited experience, way overrated... and overpriced)." Usually when purchasing a battery , what you are really paying for is how many pounds of lead you get. Series 27 usually weigh less than the series 31 , most trucks will use. Two series 31 do an OK job of replacing a single 8D , but if you check the weight /price , you can decide which is a better bargain. OLD batteries die inside and may loose 3% per day , new batts should only loose 1% per day of sitting. Pairing new and old is seldom a good idea. FF | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 477 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.8.8 Rating: N/A |
Ace - Point taken. Come to think of it, only time I ever forgot to turn of power was last time I parked. And guess what? Dead batt. And guess what else? I had one bay cracked open for a water hose. Dummmee me! But are those bay lights 24 or 12V? 'Cause (see above post) I don't have a center tap nor equalizer. Do those lights come on even when the dashboard switch is off? (Sorry for asking - if I had batts I'd check that myself). FF: Thanks. Good info! Nellie | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1756 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20  Rating: N/A |
Nellie - For the time being, I suggest you charge each battery independently, then hook back up. Coach should then start, so you can get it up on the ramps, like you want. Once on the ramps, disconnect the batteries while you ponder your next move, alternately keeping them on a float charger. Since you've made a commitment to stay in warm climates, I think a couple of Group 31s will suit your situation just fine. But I also agree with George T - don't tie two 27s (or 31s) with the 8D. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 479 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 66.87.0.177 Rating: N/A |
You guys are truly Godsends. I mean that, and wish a wonderful Christmas to you all! RJ: I'm in process of doing what you suggested... and will keep each charged separately (once on the ramps). Question: What can I do with the still strong (according to load tester) 8D? Tie it into golf cart (Trojan) house batts? BTW, the Trojans are cast-offs, but still have good readings. Geez, there goes Christmas... and a whole bunch of fuel. Nellie Wilson | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1171 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.56.244.104 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Two smaller batteries, each HALF the rating of the 8D, paralleled, in series with your good 8D as a permanent solution works for me, and it will work for you! One 27, or whatever, in series with the good 8D to get you started and up on a ramp is fine. The whole thing of this is that charged batteries are happy batteries. Its really hard on batteries just to let them sit. I strongly suggest you get a small 12V AUTOMATIC charger, and charge your good 8D overnight. After that, at least once a week, charge your starting batteries overnight, one with the 12V charger tonite, the other tomorrow night. Somewhere in the archives is a post by JohnMC9 on batteries, probably a year and a half old? Please see if you can find it, because if you follow the suggestions, and aren't inadvertently abusing your batteries with your wiring, they will last a LONG time. G | ||
| Derrick Thomas (Thomasinnv)
Registered Member Username: Thomasinnv Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2010 Posted From: 69.19.14.42 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, the bay lights are 24 volt, and the only way to kill power to them when a door is open is to turn off the master switch in the battery compartment. I have mine disconnected in the a/c junction box, and plan to change them over to 12 volt switched fixtures connected to the house batteries. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 654 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 98.233.187.50  Rating: N/A |
RJ Long wrote: "For the time being, I suggest you charge each battery independently, then hook back up. Coach should then start, so you can get it up on the ramps, like you want." Yes, this is good advice and it's based on one of the worst principles of a bad battery. Often you can take a bad battery, put a charge on it and it will act like a good battery -- for just a few minutes or for just a light load. Once it has sat for few hours or really used hard, it's going let you down again. So, if you're not really going out on the road for a few weeks, you can probably get by with a charge (good, slow complete charge on your good battery and as good a charge as you can get on the "bad" one) to get the engine started to move up on ramps. But when you're ready to go out on the road, you'll need a pair of good batteries -- properly paired and charged. (Of course, if a battery is really stone-dead -- such as having an internal short or a broken internal connector -- all bets are off. But just a drained, weak, old battery might take enough of a charge to get you around your parking area or shop or to get a start to warm up the engine, etc.) | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 655 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 98.233.187.50 Rating: N/A |
Oh, one other thing I guess I should add ... One of the best way to damage a starter motor is to try to start often with a bad battery. You can maybe get a couple of starts to move up on blocks, etc. out of a bad battery but it's not a good idea to milk it over and over. And if it doesn't turn over at a good RPM and start up pretty quickly, don't keep grinding the starter. And if you *really need* to start on a marginal battery, be sure that you don't overheat the starter. And another thing I've seen done; one of the inexpensive "jumper packs" (like you'll see the guys in used car lots carry around) can be put on the weak battery. The packs are 12V so you'll have to parallel it to posts on the bad battery but in an emergency, it will work. (It works but for some reason, I don't like the idea -- but I saw a charter bus with an equalizer problem started that way often. I don't know if it was doing any harm but it sure turned over the engine (a Cummins L11) quickly.) |
