| Author |
Message |
Tractor Nut (64.236.221.6)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 6:20 pm: | |
Howdy all, thought I would post this here, as well, I really think someone will know the answer to this...
My question is, are there places along the road where I can find an "open" network connection that my wireless laptop network card can find??? I have heard that if you drive up to within three hundered feet of a Huddle House, my wireless nic will sence it, and get me on the internet.... Any Ideas?
Thanks a bunch guys, and I really look forward to your replies!
Adam P
PS Fast Fred, If you emailed me, I don't think I ever got it... Still hoping to hear from you!!! |
two dogs (67.30.23.85)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 6:40 pm: | |
they make a little handheld device that "senses" a signal & tells ya' "got good signal strength"..has 3 lights..all three lit,=maximum strength...don't have to fire-up the p.c. till ya' see that thing light-up |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 7:25 pm: | |
You are looking for "Hotspots" The larger Starbucks have them, I think by now, so do some McDonald's. I was thinking that it would be great to get into all the truck stops, but another company beat me to it. Pretty much all of these, except the one serviced by "Personal Telco" require a subscription or a "Per-Use" fee.
"Wardriving" is using a product like "NetStumbler" to "Sniff" for open networks. This is illegal, but everyone does it.
I have no knowledge of a handheld device that senses open networks, I doubt such a product exists, since you need about five of the seven layers of netwowrking to detect an open network.
I think over the next few years we will see a buildout of WiFi, but it will be spotty, just like cellphones were.
Gary |
Peter E (Sdibaja) (66.123.253.184)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 7:54 pm: | |
http://www.computoredge.com/Archive/Editorial%20Archive/2138.pdf page 16 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 8:09 pm: | |
what's there, all I read is macstuff.
Gary |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 8:39 pm: | |
Incidentally, I have a bunch of external Antennas and other items that I'm not going to need, I'll make you some good deals on this stuff, I've recently gone out of the Wi-Fi business.
Gary |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 8:42 pm: | |
Gary,
Without getting into the warchalking debate (actually marking property being a whole different issue), or even taking a stance on the morality of sniffing for open connections, I think the blanket statement "this is illegal" is a bit misleading.
Maybe I'm out of date here, but I don't think there are any laws that cover this. AFAIK, it has not been challenged in any court.
Bear in mind, I am not talking about breaking any encryption, or hacking into anyone's servers or accessing their data -- simply sniffing their connections and subesequently using their bandwidth.
Please educate me as to the actual code involved.
-Sean |
two dogs (67.30.23.50)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 9:21 pm: | |
advertised in yesterdays paper |
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 10:03 pm: | |
I have never heard of wardriving being illegal either. Certainly finding and making note of an open network can't be illegal. Using it, maybe, but would be very tough to convict, I think. Breaking encryption, entering a network and hacking or cracking has plenty of precedent for criminalism.
They do make and sell, for about $30 bucks, a palm-sized gizmo to sniff networks. However, all they do is tell you that some sort of WiFi is present. You still have to boot a PC and do a site survery to see if encryption or Mac address filtering is enabled. In other words, the device may light up but you still ain't necessarily getting in.
For busnuts on the move, probably FlyingJ's new service is going to most convenient. Not available everywhere yet, but they plan on it. You can pay by the hour, the day, the month or the year. The connection will be strong inside the store and at the profesional driver tables. The signal may or may not be so great out in the big rig parking area. I'd hope they place their outside antennas well so you don't have to sit in the store all night checking e-mail etc.
Starbucks, FlyingJ, Border's Bookstores and I am sure many more to come. What I would love to see is a standardization for billing and user authentication so the network can really grow in flexibility and not be isolated little pockets with umpty zillion service providers none of which recognize each other's service plans. . . Only time and the market will tell, I suppose.
BTW, you could also go wardriving with a toad in residential neighborhoods and business parks to see if you can get access. Kind of time consuming though. My parent's little cul de sac in San Diego has no less than four private Wifi networks broadcasting SSIDs . . .
Gary, I might be interested in the antennas. Want to shoot me an e-mail?
Scott at dustyfoot dot com |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:35 pm: | |
In response to Sean's post. I didn't say it was enforceable--but accessing another's network without permission is illegal. If you want to split hairs and say exactly what level of access crosses the line of legality, feel free.
Or if you want to take the other side of the argument (Admittedly Extreme), Kevin Mitnick never did anything wrong, I don't care. As an IT professional I don't want to be seen as a promoter of wardriving that's all.
The fact that the regulations are so vague (Beareaucrats are still figuring out what WiFi is) is one of the reasons wardriving is somewhat dangerous. At some point someone will make that Specific definition (I don't want to see bumper-stickers that say "Free Gary").
In one of the wireless systems that we considered installing, we had an official say: "You don't understand, we'll MAKE it illegal, just for you"
I would err on the side of wardriving being unethical however.
If you are accessing the network of someone who doesn't care if you use their bandwidth (Like me), I don't imagine you're in violation.
I just thought of something--when we were surveying a site in southern California, we hit a network named UBOC...(that's Union Bank Of California) Wide open. You wouldn't want to be caught poking around in there--even if it was their own damn fault for leaving the network open.
All of that being said--I'll have netstumbler running on my Dash-PC with an Omni on the roof.
Gary |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:39 pm: | |
As for the Handheld Units--I'd like to see one.
It would be a damn shame that we've been using a $75K Spectrum analyzer when a cheap handheld device is made.
As the Scottsman said--
"Ah Hae me doots"
Gary |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:57 pm: | |
Ok, now for Scott's Post--
I think I covered the Wardriving position--
so, the $30.00 gizmo is a little RF amp/Detector with a 2.4 - 2.5 GHZ ISM (Industrial, Science and Medical) Band. Pity there are SO Many devices that use it, electric meters, radio phones, etc...
In using a protocol analyzer, we would read traffic on a given frequency, but couldn't see it with Netstumbler. That's becaus stumbler only recognises transmissions that are in-protocol. things like the home phone just show as noise.
also the analyzer was plugged into a 36dbi total gain ant/amp, 100meters in the air. I don't think the handheld will even detect signals that you could get from the top of your bus with a simpel Yagi. (So you'd miss out on a lot of signals.)
For thirty clams though it'd be fun to play with.
You have hit on the problem with the WiFi business my friend, it's VERY difficult for providers to develop a cross-billing platform using this technology. It's not like a Cell phone, which is circuit-switched, but "Packet Switched" Very hard to verify across providers.
Our market was Rural areas, but DSL and Cablemodem finally came to town. Wiped us out. Too bad.
I'll try and get back to you shortly Scott.
Gary |
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.23)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 1:06 am: | |
Ah, the detector is down to twenty bones now:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10348441&loc=101
Scott |
two dogs (67.30.23.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 5:53 am: | |
so...tractor nut...the "such a produt does exist"....hmmmmmm....you can either try it, or,condem it without trying it...depends on who you listen to |
FAST FRED (67.75.105.248)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 6:12 am: | |
The latest issue of Trailer Life claims that 100 of the 500 KOA will have a wireless system this year.
Might be worrth a call to where your heading.
FAST FRED |
Scott Cavanaugh (66.169.172.64)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 7:05 am: | |
Try www.netstumbler.com this is a pretty comprehensive site about wardriving, hardware, links to other sites on the subject etc.
Also when the site is up, try www.wardriving.com
Legalities aside, its fun to do! Do we all drive the speed limit as posted? |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 12:14 pm: | |
Hey--
Look at: http://www.hdcom.com/2.4ghzantennas.html
Item HD20678
I think I'm going to get one of these to mount on a mast that I can rotate from the Inside.
18dBi at 15 degrees is pretty good for a patch antenna.
Gary |
Derek (24.66.241.23)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 1:49 am: | |
I find it rather ironic that my local bank is trying to be so security concsious about in the flesh people...
..but I sat outside today surfing the internet on thier connection...
I wonder if someone will create a sattelite system where you can be online when on the road..
That would be a gift from Google, the god of the internet! |
Marty R. (199.177.63.2)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 9:46 am: | |
Satellite Internet is out there, only problem is that the equipment and service prices are VERY high. |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 10:05 am: | |
Damn, when an old guy thinks he has seen it all, you guys come up with new stuff. I did not know about all this, very interesting stuff it is. Thanks for all that information people. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 2:42 pm: | |
As Marty said, Satellite 'net is very expensive, there is a way to setup Direcway on an RV, but before everyone jumps up and screams you can't install Direcway on a moving location--you have to be certified as an Installer. This runs $30 - 60 /mo, but like I say you have to be an installer.
The other thing is that Satellite 'net has a delay. for Email and Websurfing, it'll work fine, but for guys like me it won't work.
However, I just was in a conference call with someone who used a satelllite linkup from a beach in Hawaii. She accesses the same stuff I do, so I started quizzing her--she didn't know what it was, just that her Hubby set it up, and he's a communication system exec with a little company call Boeing.
So--the upshot is, there are ways to do this, but like everything else, you can have it:
1) Easy
2) Cheap
3) Quick
Pick any two.
Gary |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 3:28 pm: | |
Technical error Gary, you are SUPPOSED to be a licensed installer, but you don't HAVE to be. Many seem to be buying a pointing device and doing it themselves, kinda like setting up a DirecTV dish. LEGALLY it is a transmitter and you need a license.
I got a Direcway system a couple months ago, primarily because I can have two dishes, and plug in to which one I feel like. I have not noticed any bad things about the system yet, but some people do not realize that the uplink is not much faster than a good phone line. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 3:55 pm: | |
Yeah, You will sometimes have to read between the lines of my posts--I do this stuff for a living, I use terrestrial microwave systems in International border crossings, etc....
I won't advise anyone to break the law.
If you set it up wrong though, you can wreak havoc with other licensed-band systems.
Also, there are some pretty informal trainings out there, I guess it's not too bad to get the training.
Gary |
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.40)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 9:54 pm: | |
OK, now yall'r talking my talk. Here is the scoop on Sat systems, in brief.
In motion satellite Internet access:
Yes, it is availble. KVH makes a system call TracNet. Will cost multiple thousands for the hardware. But the kicker is the access fees. Couple hundred per month to start and then $.79 per minute. Do the math - it gets outrageously cost prohibitive quickly. Very slow uploads. Slow ping times and moderate latency.
Transportable fixed satellite access:
Also available, called Datastorm. Fully automated satellite finding. Four grand for the hardware, plus $750-$100 for installation. One hundred bones a month for unlimited access. Fast downloads, uploads comparable to dial-up. Slow ping times and moderate latency.
Bootleg fixed dishes used in mobile application:
Buy a home dish on eBay or from a dealer willing to sell to anyone. Hardware $250-$1200. Or get a VAR to discount a dish in exchange for contracting their bandwidth. Build or buy a tripod or some other mounting system and spend a half hour to an hour pointing, peaking and passing cross pole tests it each time you deploy. Risk having your account shut off if Hughes decides to enforce its own rules that expressly prohibit moving dishes intended for fixed use. Fast downloads, uploads comparable to dial-up. Slow ping tims and latency.
Commercial sat systems:
Transportable fixed dish systems. Fully automated. Pay tens of thousands for equipment and thousands for monthly access and enjoy high upload and download speeds, low ping times and low latency, and unlimited access.
Scott |
Gary Carter (68.24.238.189)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 12:06 am: | |
You can also use your cell phone. I use sprint and get about 2 times land line speeds. This is suppose to increase to 10-20 times land line speeds in the next year or so.
Have had great success all over these United States. Been a few dead spots but these have been rare. |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 8:04 am: | |
I wasn't "advising" anyone to break the law Gary, I would not do it myself, and don't recommend it. I was just pointing out that it CAN be done, and is being done. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 12:27 pm: | |
It looks like Scott as about a comprehensive summary as you can get.
As for Cell phones--It's very dependent on where you are. One of the main places I travel for instance, Neither Sprint nor Verizon are available. I have AT&T GSM/GPRS, which is roughly comparable to a land-line Modem.
Gary |
Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 12:46 pm: | |
I have had moderately good luck with Verizon if I am in a decent size town or city. Verizon includes an ISP service with my plan and using the Mobile Office software and the special cable to connect to my Motorola Timeport phone, the software dials #777 to connect. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sometimes reconnecting helps. Otherimes, it seems to work better to dial directly, either long distance or look-up a local number, to an Earthlink account and just use the phone as a standard modem.
Sometimes I am surprised, like at Arches National Park in Utah near Moab, I received a decent digital signal and was able to connect to the Net while perched overlooking the awesome landscape. But for the most part, cell phone service is slow and spotty when out in the wilds. I am sure coverage and speed will get better, but will be interesting to see how the future plays out. . . i.e. new cellular technologies, large WiFi networks, a new constellation of non-geosynchronus low-earth-orbit satellites etc. . .
Scott |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 1:28 pm: | |
Would you mind sharing where it is that Verizon or Sprint are not available Gary? I used the Verizon for years (still have it) and did not find those places. Since Verizon has more towers than anybody else, and also uses Sprint and others, that is why I chose them.
My own personal gripe was that such systems only work on digital service, and often where I would stop to surf, only analog was available. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 1:46 pm: | |
Keep in mind we ARE talking about Data connections. For services like Express Network, you need Digital, and other features to be available in order to get the good speeds.
The VOICE mode works pretty much everywhere, although there's a spot in Michigan, near Saginaw that has me irritated, but the area that I need Data service is in the Wilamette Valley in Oregon. There are many other location--but I'm talking about Data access.
My GSM/GPRS, AT&T phone works in all of those locations.
Gary |
Don KS/TX (66.82.9.41)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 5:18 pm: | |
OK |
Neo/Russ (170.224.224.38)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 10:33 am: | |
Just got off road from a trip from Nashvile to Carlisle, PA. I use Verizon for cell (I know voice only) and there are a few places on 81 in VA, near the Southern end, by the beautiful Blue Ridge that I had no connection. I also travel some places in South Central Kentucky that tie into another carrier and I can't get messages/ Otherwise it works pretty good East of the Miss. from Fl to NY. |
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.38)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 12:36 pm: | |
Just a follow-up on this thread. Yesterday I was driving by the FlyingJ in Tulsa, OK and their billboard advertised that they now had a WiFi hotspot.
I dug out the brochures I had collected from FlyingJ and Starbucks. Here are some URLs for more info:
http://www.tonservices.com/hisp_home.htm
http://www.t-mobile.com/hotspot/
Both services have pay-as-you-go plans and annual plans and everything in-between.
Scott |
bobechs (207.170.89.147)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 1:51 am: | |
For wi-fi users there is a simple national database at www.wi-fizone.org that lists pay-for-use and free-for-all networks, including some registered by home users that are willing to share their connections with passersby |