| Author | Message | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.236)
Rating: N/A |
Hi all, I 'm new here, found your nice BB while searching for info for adding living quarters to my horse trailer... Has anyone tried making waste/water tanks out of plywood and lining them with polyethylene pond liner material? It is very cheap at ~.30+ per square foot for the 20 mil potable water stuff, and I thought perhaps the lid could be covered with the same stuff, than run a bead of silicon around the edge just before screwing down tight.... sort of like the link to the fiberglassed plywood tank, but alot less $ and work.. Will wait to see what you all think! We have a medium duty truck with a bunch of wasted space under the flatbed, seems like I could easily add at least 100 gallons on each side of the frame rails. I am thinking about one fresh, one waste...or actually 4 tanks, so I would have 1 fresh, and 1 waste on each side to balance the load. This way we could pump the waste tank from the trailer into the truck waste tanks and just drive the truck to a pump station! No need to drag along the trailer.... thanks, maddy | ||
| DonTX/KS (205.187.92.161)
Rating: N/A |
Very innovative I think. I have had a duck pond with that stuff lining it for over 10 years, and it still acts like new, flexible and tough stuff for sure, never a leak.. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.170.197) Rating: N/A |
Sounds like it should work fine. One thing I might do, if you weren't going to, is glue the liner down... | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.170.197) Rating: N/A |
Actually, I think that silicon will work in that aplication, but even if it wouldn't work, there are sealants for pond liners that would. Thinking about what I said before I would want the liner glued down, and I'd want to be VERY certain there were no slivers of wood or nails that could poke the liner or rub through it later... maybe paint the inside of the box before gluing down the liner. Brian | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.198.61) Rating: N/A |
thoughts>>>>. how are you gonna make fittings seal???m... maybe some sort of compression fitting with the liner sandwiched in????.. and not trying to burst your bubble, but 2x 100 gallons is a lot of weight... and lots of liquid... unless you're a firetruck.... | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A |
Above ground pool fittings ought to work nicely Jim, and they make soft sided pools that hold thousands of gallons with fittings for that sort as well. A couple of hundred gallons are pretty hefty, but then again, I had a water bed on the second floor of a stick frame appt.probably closer to 400 gallons, seemed to do alright. While thats not the same as a road going 200 gallons, I think if it's built sturdily enough it and suspended properly it ought to work. | ||
| John Feld (150.199.209.13) Rating: N/A |
Like the idea, it has merit, BUT, have a reservation. What about baffleing? A sudden turn or breaking with 100 gals of water or waste, or both, could cause a problem for a small truck and jack-knife. John 4104 | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.244)
Rating: N/A |
Yes, thanks all for your input! I had expected to glue down the liner...it would be quite easy to fold inside the box just like you would wrap a present, but inside, not outside. Nice and neat, with the corner flaps held in place with the sticky tape that is made to join pond liner material, then the fold seams siliconed as well. After it is made, but BEFORE the lid is screwed down, a + shaped or H shaped baffle made out of potable water plastic sheeting could be set down inside nice and snug, with extra pond liner material siliconed between it and the sides and bottom for snug fit and to prevent abrasion. One thing missed by John is that I said an MDT (medium duty truck, like a small semi) not a pickup truck. The GVWR for the truck is 26,000, but it will be doing almost no "work" carrying a load, other than the hitch weight. Adding 2,000+ lbs of liquid weight when all tanks are full would be nothing for it. Actually when the waste tanks are full the water tanks should by then be empty...so the load would more often be 1,000 lbs. Also, I have seen fittings that are made to screw together from inside and outside of the wall, with an o-ring type of seal compressed in between. And the pond liner would also be providing some sealing ability, as it is pretty thick as well. Since we will be traveling outbound with water, inbound with waste, I am thinking one tank of each per side, to balance. That would make each of the 4 tanks about 2'x 2' x 2' which would fit perfectly between the cab and the rear wheels, just under the flatbed. They would not hang down any lower than the fuel tank does. The truck actually used to be a water bottle delivery truck, so the water bottle body had to be cut off and replaced with the flatbed. This conveniently left some VERY heavy duty metal hanging down off the frame rails in just the right places for tank holders to be fabricated onto. It would be stronger than what holds the 50 gallon fuel tank that I have to step on to get into the truck...and I would not have to have any welding done to the frame rails. I am thinking of a cage made of 2 inch metal straps tightly fit all around the plywood boxes for additional strength, and the boxes (tanks) could sit right down into a floor made of welded angle iron padded with some foam rubber or scrap pond liner. This way we would not be relying solely on glue and screws to hold the tanks together. I understand that the fiberglass on the plywood is what gives it strength and stability. Metal strapping could substitute? Anyway, the pond liner is CHEAP, and we have plenty of scrap metal and plywood around here since my husband is a pack rat AND in construction, hahha I am thinking that each 50+ gallon tank would cost about 25 dollars...and we can make them just the right size to fit where we have space. Any other input pro or con? I appreciate the additional brain power, and all of your combined experiences! I hope adding this idea to your forum will be of value to someone in the future! maddy p.s. Not that it matters to this discussion, but the truck is an 89 GMC 7000, Allison tranny. The Detroit Diesel was factory rebuilt just 2 years ago, and we got the truck for only $3345 when the company was bought out by a bigger company! Those around here that knew the company say they had a very good fleet mainaintance program in place. The trucks were driven on 100 mile routes 6 days a week, so the engine can't have more than 62,000 miles on it since being rebuilt. | ||
| John Feld (150.199.209.28) Rating: N/A |
With an inside measure of 2X2X2 you would have 60 gallon each. Sounds like you have a workable idea, let us know how it works out, some photo's as you build would be great. John 4104 | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (64.134.7.58)
Rating: N/A |
Ok, I'll poke some holes in this (Pun Intended). A) Pond liner is not intended for drinking water, I would be concerned about drinking out of it, I would imagine you would even be able to "Taste" the pond liner. In another thread on this board regarding PVC tanks, the concern was raised about using PVC for drinking water because of the Lead (?) content. I thought this was interesting, since PVC has been used for drining water for decades. In any case, I'd imagine that pond liner would leach numerous substances into the drinking water, not the least of which are hydrocarbons. B) Seams/Fittings won't hold up. The sealants and fittings for the pond liners are designed for static installations. Your application is, to say the least, Dynamic. Given the contstant agitation and flexing, the joints/fitting won't have a very long service life. Also, I'd never EVER use silicone in a potable water application. C) John mentioned Baffling. His reference was in terms of the shifting weight center of the liquids causing handling problems, and if we were talking about a light truck, he'd be spot-on. Baffles have two functions though, that is to reduce "Sloshing", like John said, the other is to provide internal structural support to the tank structure. A tank is not a just a box, but an internally gussetted structure designed to retain it's shape. Your Tank will be suspended from the frame, and greatly dependent on it's structure to survive. Since the membrane is totally flexible, it will "Work" and the structure will fatigue. Because the liner is attached (Glued) to the plywood, as soon as one corner flexes, the membrane will crack at that point. It'll be all downhill after that. I wouldnt expect it to last one year. On the other hand, if you do the same thing, but use fiberglass, you should have much better results. I have built many tanks (Professionally) and I have to do the tanks on my bus as well. I will build Stainless tank(s) if I can find a cheap source for the material (14 - 16 ga 308?...anyone?). If I don't, I will probably use the "Glass-in-a-box" method myself. I must say that I have never used the fiberglass method myself. At the least, I'd do some checking on the safety of drinking water that has been stored in a pondliner. Gary | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.250)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Gary. Thanks for your contributions. What kind of professional tanks did you build, and why aren't you doing same for yourself? Actually there are many types of pond liner, and some of them are indeed safe for potable water. I checked that FIRST. In fact the same material is used in potable water bags. We have one that can fit in the back of a pickup truck and holds 250 gallons. Have you ever wrapped a square or rectangular box with a flat sheet of wrapping paper? Well, I know you have at least torn one open! Think about how nice and flat and seamless that box was wrapped. Now, with an open topped box, put the paper (liner) inside just as nicely fitted as it can be on the outside. The entire inside of the box can be flat fitted right up to the top edge. Now you have a lined box with one seamless sheet of liner. You do however have flat and neat folds in the liner. This is the part that can be taped and caulked to lie flat, but even if you didn't there is no place to leak. Except at the top edge, where the top would be caulked as it is put on and screwed down tightly. Pond liner companies also offer cheap "geomembrane" material to put under the liner to protect it from sharp stones, etc... so you could put that under the liner. I did not plan to "sheet glue" the liner to the plywood except on the top piece...a few tack points inside the box would hold it in place until the top is put on. Allow the liner to overlap the top edge, and it isn't going anywhere once the top is on... Actually I just had a thought that might be a good comparison...think "boxed wine"- a flexible liquid proof potable liquid safe liner inside a box! Same principle. As I mentioned before, there are screw together fittings that are made for holding tanks; One part inside screws to one part outside. They are in rv catalogs for when people need to put a fitting on a tank in a new place and can't/don't want to chemical or spin weld. Ok, baffles...you know how cardboard boxes often have partitions of cardboard pieces that are slotted to fit together at right angles? Well if one made baffles that fit together like that, bonded them with the proper plastic glue (Partitions and glue all drinking water safe) and fitted these partitions into the box closely, they would indeed perform each function that you mentioned...both slosh prevention and stiffening of all four sides. Actually my tanks will be sitting on a "floor" of angle iron and sheet metal, probably with some nice closed cell foam underneath the tank, not "suspended" from the frame rails...the floor will be attached to the frame rails, not the tanks. By the way, we have 2 black water tanks from other rv's and they are about 5 feet long, with...no baffles... Well, the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. I can get a 12x12 sheet of drinking water safe 20 mil liner for a little over $30. Have everything else but the fittings and glue, and they are an expense for any owner built tank... maddy | ||
| Jayjay (198.81.26.104) Rating: N/A |
200 galllons is like adding an extra stall to your rig. One with a 1600lb. foal jumping around in it!!! Put in good stout baffles, and check your brakes. ...JJ | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.250)
Rating: N/A |
The GVWR for the truck is 26,000, but it will be doing almost no "work" carrying a load, other than the hitch weight, (about 1000 pounds). It is meant to carry more like 8 to 10 tons. Actually when the waste tanks are full (100 gallons in two 50 gallon tanks) the water tanks (100 gallons in two 50 gallon tanks) should be empty...so the liquid load would more often be 1,000 lbs. Wow, a whole 2000 pounds on the truck. Even my one ton Ford wouldn't care about that. Truck has nice big air brakes... big brakes and bigger tranny/engine were why we bought the truck, rather than continue to use our F350 dually diesel. | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.250)
Rating: N/A |
By the way Gary I forgot to mention that there are several companies that make food grade silicon sealants. Permatex is one. | ||
| David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (64.24.236.72)
Rating: N/A |
If you are using it for waste tanks, then food grade doesn't matter. Only matters for fresh/drinking water tanks. You might build all tanks except drinking water tanks. BTW, We tore an old fresh water tank out of my parents trailer. It was 36"Lx18"Hx24"W. It had no gussets in it any where, just smooth plastic, no reinforced corners, no baffles. All the small fresh water tanks that I have seen have no baffles, etc. Only the bigger tanks do. David & I have been talking about using several smaller tanks (with valves) instead of 3 larger tanks (fresh, grey & black) with small tank from shower to flush toilet (would overflow into grey). The smaller tanks would be easier to work around the plumbing that will also be in the bays as well as provide a back up for if one tank failed (close off valve and use other(s). Also for long-term "full-hookups", we could shut down to minimum tankage, only using larger tankage as we need it (extended boondocking?). But we are still working that out (among other things). Lorna | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Maddy, Hmm.... Something must have gotten lost here--I AM building tanks, just haven't decided between Stainless or Fiberglass, acquisition of raw materials being the deciding factor. Stainless is pretty pricey, but I'm setup for stainless in my shop and i'm pretty good at finding surplus stuff. Sadly, I'm not in the fabrication business anymore, I haven't figured out a way to make a good income doing that line of work. However, I have some disease requiring that I keep building stuff, so I do my own stuff. I haven't seen Potable-compatible membrane. You can get this for ~.30 ft? I have opened a few christimas presents, even wrapped a few, but that doesn't bear much relevance to a box that carries several hundred pounds of moving liquid. "Boxed Wine" is really a "Bag in a box" or a Bladder. that's not what we're describing here. The Add-on bungs might hold up, but it's a moot point, they definitely will outlive the rest of the tank. In your baffling method, the liner is in first, then the baffle. the baffle glues to the liner, which is in turn glued to the box. So....All this crashing water-weight of a half-full tank will be controlled by the baffle, which is dependent on a 20-mil piece of plastic to hold the weight. I don't think so. the impact of the water on the baffle will rip the membrane right up from the box. BTW, what were you thinking about making the baffles out of? Now...You're planning to "Box it in" with steel? Your $30 low-cost proposition just went out the window. The Fiberglass in plywood designs don't require this, actually in those designs, the plywood is not much more than a form, but there's no reason to take it off. these can be supported by a pair of tank straps, like any other tank. I know there are food grade silicones--Have you ever seen silicone that has spent any time in water? Just nasty. Yuck! I hope you reconsider, there are proven methods that are only slightly more money (Or the same cost, given the Steel you are going to add) that are still on the road. In any case, good luck. Gary | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (198.81.26.104)
Rating: N/A |
I know there are food grade silicones--Have you ever seen silicone that has spent any time in water? Just nasty. Yuck! HUH? Gary, you lost me there, I've seen silicone used in so many places and ways and in so many colors it's scary, RTV silicone will last indefinitely in water... Now diesel or gasoline will make it pretty "nasty" but water?... Nah, lots of people use it in marine applicatons. The key is getting the stuff to adhere properly to the surface, IN THE FIRST PLACE, then it holds like nobody's business, I know, I've had to scrape it off enough times. But the point is probably moot, the best way to go would be for Maddy to purchase the bonding glue made for pond liners. Brian | ||
| R Johnstone (Chilebrew) (67.202.13.98)
Rating: N/A |
I've never tasted potable wine from a box. (nor from screw-on cap bottles...) | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
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Maddy - There's a great article over on the Coach Conversion Central site written by George Lowry about how he built his holding tanks from ABS plastic. I've seen his tanks, they're now over 10 years old and have never given George any problems. The ABS might be a little more expensive than pond liner material, but by the time you add in all the glue, plywood, etc., my guess is that they'd be pretty competitive (and less than stainless steel that Gary's interested in using). Here's a link to the article: http://users.cwnet.com/~thall/george.htm HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.227)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, you misunderstand what I'm saying. I have no intention of glueing the baffles to the liner. Just a good tight fit, with some liner strips glued to the baffle edges for abrasion prevention. ""Boxed Wine" is really a "Bag in a box" or a Bladder. that's not what we're describing here." Actually it is VERY close to what I mean. But the bag would not collapse inside as liquid is withdrawn. "I haven't seen Potable-compatible membrane. You can get this for ~.30 ft?" Yes, if you don't buy from the first source you find...like anything, a little searching time yields better pricing, but the WORST I have seen was $0.58 per square foot. Liner for inside a 2' square box would be $23.20 at that price. Potable water membrane...is out there but not all pond liner sources will bother to identify which is...you have to know what kind is and what kind isn't. Some websites do bother to give you the info: "POLYETHYLENE POND LINERS Polyethylene is the high strength, lightweight solution for water and other liquid containment. It can be used for ponds and other applications where a non-permeable, waterproof barrier is needed. It is puncture resistant, UV stabilized and drinking water quality safe. Polyethylene is the product of choice in commercial aquaculture where its chemical stability and non-leaching properties make it ideal for raising fish. " Gary, you say " BTW, what were you thinking about making the baffles out of?" I already said, make them out of food grade plastic sheeting...we have a plastics store near here that sell sheets, but also small pieces left over from special orders... I went out last night with a flashlight to double check...two 45 gallon waste tanks - no baffles at all, and one 50 gallon water tank - baffle consisted of a slight constriction of the plastic tank on the top and bottom about the halfway point. Does not close the inside more than 1/2 way. These are all from older rv's. Two are probably 20 years old, and saw lots of travel. No baffles, no breaking, and they are very thin plastic. Methinks you are making mountains out of molehills. One of these tanks is slated to go under our bathroom in the horse trailer for a combo black/grey tank. We will be able empty that tank into the truck mounted tanks twice while camping, and then can drive the truck to a pump station, no need to take the trailer as well. Horses use a LOT of water, the most we can get aboard the trailer is 50 gallons, but add two more 50 gallon tanks to the truck, and now we can stay somewhere that has NO water for 3 to 4 days. You also say "Now...You're planning to "Box it in" with steel? Your $30 low-cost proposition just went out the window" but I had said we have plenty of scrap steel just laying around here...no cost to me. Husband who can weld. Steel cage around a tank is common, do a search, many portable water tanks have steel cages around them for support. maddy | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.227)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks, RJ, for the link...I have read that several times, and also went to the plastics store to check out prices of these 4x8 sheets...ouch! Which is why I was thinking of an alternative and cheaper method. For the price of the sheeting, I might as well have a plastics fabricating company make me tanks! | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (198.81.26.104)
Rating: N/A |
Maddy, truth be told, when you gave the dimensions as 2'x 2' cubes my first thought was "She doesn't need baffles for a tank that size." I have seen many many over-the-road 50 to sixty gallon tanks with no baffles at all. And after all, we are not talking about a pickup truck here. I've worked on a few water bottle delivery trucks in the past, they way they are built, the suspensions they have, for the loads they carry...you will never even notice THAT load even if all four tanks are full simultaniously and you are going full bore round a curve. Not gonna happen. Having scrap steel is great, half the time there's a great project sitting in the middle of it waiting to be cut out and welded together. Brian | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
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OK, one more time... Water weighs 8.3 lbs/gallon. if you have a 100 gallon tank, half full, you have 415 lbs of static load. In a turning/accelerating/braking scenario, you have the potential for a few thousand pounds of dynamic load. Now what kind of baffling is the plastic sheeting going to pose against that? A bladder is very different from what you are talking about. They collapse as the volume decreases, and are internally secured to prevent rupture. Also, I now read that you're talking about polyethylene. Yes, of course, it's potable. That's because it's totally inert and nothing sticks to it. Including adhesives. As far as I am aware, there is no glue that sticks to Poly. (Not even Silicone) It's a self lubricating plastic that is almost impossible to adhere. that's why they have the "Hot Melt" solutions for Polyethylyne. Your 45 gallon tanks are unbaffled, that's about right. As you say, your 50 is baffled. as the volume increases the need for baffling increases. You're talking about 100 Gallons. You have come to a Bus Converter's site, asking to have your design validated. There are two basic, accepted methods for making your own tanks that are widely used. The one I have mentioned, "Glass in a box" which is similar to what you're talking about, but using a different liner. The other that RJ mentioned is also a viable, accepted method. ("My" other option, being stainless, will only happen if I get the material for virtually no cost.) What you're proposing to use is a material that has minimal strength, can't be glued, and you're going to do it without any real baffles. Since you've already decided to do this, and you're just looking for positive affirmation, good luck. There are reasons why the "Cheap Ways" are rarely the "Right Ways". Gary | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.227)
Rating: N/A |
Brian you are exactly right, 2x2x2 cubes, I don't understand why Gary is having such a problem with this...he got fixated on 100 gallons per side, apparently keeps forgetting my 4 tank explanation... "I've worked on a few water bottle delivery trucks in the past, they way they are built, the suspensions they have, for the loads they carry...you will never even notice THAT load even if all four tanks are full simultaniously and you are going full bore round a curve. Not gonna happen. " Brian, you are spot on. Gary, they make double sided tape for these liners so you can make a pond ANY size...and you can also make repairs on it with the tape under water...obviously stuff does stick to it. aahhh. while doing a search for something else, I found this product...could build the entire box complete with baffles and waterproof it with this paint-on membrane... http://www.sanitred.com/ Looks like 1 gallon at $77 will give a waterproof coating 16.7 mil thick on my interior 96 square feet needed. Claims to be water proof and inert and water insoluble and ok'd for use around food and water... Interesting, anyone else ever check it out? Gary says: "You have come to a Bus Converter's site, asking to have your design validated." no, I came to see if there were any other people who had tried it, or what you ALL though about it. Or had tips to try to improve on it. You have been taking potshots at it, but many of your points were wrong...I have no idea why you are so adamant that it is a bad idea... Is this a place where ONLY bus converters can discuss conversions? If so I will go away. Otherwise, it seems like it has been a good discussion overall. " There are two basic, accepted methods for making your own tanks that are widely used. The one I have mentioned, "Glass in a box" which is similar to what you're talking about, but using a different liner." ??? Different liner = no good???? This seems like an odd place to say "Cheap Ways" are rarely the "Right Ways" I have read many discussions here about cheaper AND better (or at least no worse) ways of doing things. maddy | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (198.81.26.104)
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Gary, Actually, what Maddy said was..."We have a medium duty truck..." I could easily add at least 100 gallons on each side of the frame rails. I am thinking about one fresh, one waste...or actually 4 tanks." So, FOUR 50 gallon tanks, lots more doable, without baffles even, heck, I've seen plenty of semis with 80 gallon tanks, not a baffle in them, remember, we are talking about a 2' cube, and a truck with a 26K gvw! I don't propose to be an expert on pond liners but I have SEEN them spliced together with some sort of bonding agent, AND my soft sided above ground pool is made of the same sort of material, it came with a large swatch of extra material and glue, to make patches for punctures. Brian | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
Yeah, you're right. I read: "I could easily add at least 100 gallons on each side of the frame rails...." Still, we're talking about four, 60 gallon boxes, which is 498 lbs. Everything else is still the same. In can't think of any thin, flexible liner that will hold up to hold up to 498 lbs of fluid in a flexible plywood box, under hard Braking. Brian, 80 gallon tanks you mention are not Plywood boxes. Also, some of those 80 gals are baffled, some are not. I didn't mean to say you should not have posed your question in this forum, what I'm saying is you came to a place that should have the answers you need. the Score is: 4 - "It oughta Work" (Don/Brian/Jim/John) 2 - try a different approach. RJ/Myself My recomendations don't routinely disagree with these guys, and I can't speak for their level of experience, but they're opinions are usually farily close to the mark (My opinion). All I can say is I have built a number of tanks and I think this method is seriously hokey. Gary | ||
| dougthebonifiedbusnut (24.62.99.43)
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Hey Maddy, I think its a great idea, it will work and the baffles would be the least of my worries.Now Ill be thinking of this all night. | ||
| Abajaba (12.217.194.92) Rating: N/A |
Hey Maddy: The only thing I see wrong at this point and you may have already addressed it is, how are you going to get the waste from the trailer UP to the truck? | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.252)
Rating: N/A |
"how are you going to get the waste from the trailer UP to the truck?" oh THAT one is easy!! Just use a macerator pump: "Grinds toilet tissue and waste to 1/8” or less. 12 volt dc, 12 gallon per minute discharge rate, will lift 5’ into pump and discharge 20’ above the pump and over 175 feet through a 3/4 inch hose (not included). Accepts 3” sewer inlet hose and 1” outlet hose. 4 minutes to empty a 48 gallon tank. Manufactured by Jabsco. Fits Model 5800, Model 9501 OEM. Base Mounted. Impeller slot for manual rotation." I have also asked the Sewer Solution people just how far uphill their water operated pump will pump uphill, that may be all I need... I would be getting one of these regardless of how I make the tanks, as I think they are preferable to the old fashioned "slinky" sewer hose mess... "In can't think of any thin, flexible liner that will hold up to hold up to 498 lbs of fluid in a flexible plywood box, under hard Braking." I don't really think 3/4 or 1 inch plywood cut in 2' or smaller squares will be all that flexible...now Gary, if all this time you have been imagining it with 1/4 or 3/8 inch ply....I can understand your doubts! I haven't taken final measurements but 2x2x2 would be the maximum each tank could be...they would probably be smaller, more like 22"x22"x24" since I need to leave room for the angle iron framework, etc... maddy | ||
| John Feld (204.184.224.26) Rating: N/A |
OK, I went to the website Maddy gave for the "rubber" liner material, it was eye-opening to say the least. I read the entire site, then sent an email to the company, below is their answer: http://www.sanitred.com/foodcertification.htm to seal a tank: apply a prime coat of AR-Colorcoat @ 240 sq ft gal, fill/seal joints using LRB/TAV, surface coat w/LRB @ 240 sq ft gal. -----Original Message----- From: John Feld Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 5:02 PM To: salem@sanitred.com Subject: Sanitred Form Message !!! Comments = I am considering constructing a potable water storage tank for use as drinking water. Is there a problem with health concers with your product when used in this manner? The need is to construct an odd shaped container not available commercially that will hold apox. 100 gallons with internal baffleing that must be sealed for road travel. Thanks, John Feld What I found interesting was that it also acted as a glue compound according to a testomonial that stated that when cured he split the wood when trying to seperate the layers. Now, if you make the tank out of say, 3/4 plywood, place your baffle and add 5/8 redie-rod each side of the baffle, then seal everything in with their compound you have a seamless container that is strong, flexable and baffled at a reasonable price. Best of all, even I could do it with tools I already have! Well done Maddy, your idea gave me an alternative to consider. I love it when people can "think-out-of-the-box". I too am considering the macerator pump for black tank. John 4104 | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.166)
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Why would plywood, of necessity, be flexible to the point it would not support a pretty tough liner? If liner material can stand years of abuse as a shower base, as a pond skin, a swimming pool container,(M's of gallons I believe most of them are) why would it not withstand fast braking or other sloshing motion? Apparently some drive their coach much differently than we do ours. Fast braking is not, up till now at least, something we are accustomed to doing. We attempt to avoid such activity in a beast the size of a 40 foot bus. Maddy, we think you have something worth our consideration. Not necessarily due to cost, but to the possibility of fabricating to specific needs. For two years we have labored with the question of how, exactly, we would make tanks fit into our situation, not withstanding a custom rotational moulding project. We may not go for fresh water tanks fabricated with liner, but certainly, putting the math to it in every respect, it is a good possibility for gray and black water. Simple and in line cost wise. Not cheap though. Fittings, liner glue and ply add up to quite a bit more than first thought. But the project is still competetive with other methods... and can be custom fit. Lots of ways of skinning cats, huh? Not just, as some say, two basic accepted methods.....by whom? Build a better mouse trap.......  Thanx for the question. You have received a lot of positive input in this thread, along with the negative. Apparently no one has tried it. Go for it! Do it YOUR way, what ever that is! RCB '64 Crown HWC | ||
| maddy b (66.42.105.252)
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" You have received a lot of positive input in this thread, along with the negative." Yes, I have, and I appreciate ALL of the input. Even Gary's, as he tried his darndest to "tear holes" in it, haha. I'm glad you all are here...I may have to pick your brains as I get further along in my trailer conversion! Here is another tip I want to share with you all, since winter is coming... There used to be a company that made a VENTED catalytic heater (Plat Cat), safe and approved for RV's even with the windows closed. They went out of business. But one of their long time employees tracks down and refurbishes them, and sells them very reasonably. His name is Arnie, and he is a real gentleman! We already got one, it is sitting in the box waiting for us to progress further so we can add it to the trailer. They run on almost no elecricity, and use very little propane. website for Arnie: http://www.omnicast.net/~arnie/ Be prepared to wait some, his units are in great demand! The one we got looks just like brand new. maddy | ||
| Abajaba (12.217.194.92) Rating: N/A |
Ok Maddy: I wasn't trying to "poke a hole" in your plans. I just asked about the transfer in case it had not been thought of yet. It really is kind of funny to see peoples reactions to simple questions they have not thought of yet. Obviously not the case here! Good luck and I hope everything works out for you and yours. |