| Author | Message | ||
| tony denny (Papatony)
Registered Member Username: Papatony Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2010 Posted From: 74.206.82.239 Rating: |
With fuel getting so high has anyone checked on making biodiesel for your self. any openoins welcome | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 344 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.61.124  Rating: N/A |
boil penguins | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 260 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213  Rating: |
Wouldn't burn clean enough.( a certain penguin anyway) Tony Lots of info on bio diesel some folks are making some for use in busses. not enough available for commercial usage and ya got to know that if it ever became available the government would just slap a big road tax on it and we would be paying again. Or the environmentalists would find something wrong with it... Damn it is cold up here! Can someone please send Al Goer up to warm it up a little... Tell him to leave his private jet at home | ||
| tony denny (Papatony)
Registered Member Username: Papatony Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2010 Posted From: 74.206.82.239 Rating: N/A |
I just wonder if it would be worth doing it yourself with out buying expensive eq. would it be praticable. Sorry Gore is in Fl. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1220 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.4.4  Rating: N/A |
Where?? If you see him tell him to go back fromwhere he came from and take his GLOBAL WARMING with him and leave us alone!! Gomer | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1989 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.89.178.15  Rating: N/A |
Come on, let's stay on topic, this isn't the place for thread drift! Yes, there are a good number of busnuts doing a variety of alternative fuel projects. I hope the serious posters chime in before this goes completely unusable... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 441 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245  Rating: N/A |
"serious posters"...? You mean the one of Farrah..? .......... that's my cue! someone's blood pressure just spiked!  ~YOU RANG BOSS...?? ~ You were calling for ME, Mr. O.N.Topic & responsibly serious... right...? Buswarrior... Bud, it went off the road with post #2... the guy just doesn't know when to back off the pedal whotz a guy gonna do tho ...eh? Some people never get the hint. . . holy moly how could you miss THAT, waz ya watchin the scenery or what?...sheese..maybe itz your eyez.... eh? Re: ...Bio Diesel.... Tucson is home to a International Gem & Mineral Convention (somebody had to do it & after we begged & promised our babies they gave in) "People come from ALL over the rock come to -SHOW- SELL- BUY-...! pretty rocks to mount in gold to sell to.... people who need glitter. A 60 pass. Forward Control, Diesel Schoolie stops out in front of the shop & wants to rent space to park for 2 weeks.... no can do. (that pit was made to fit a certain sway-back, Aluminum sow) They smell funny, the Bus, not them personally, has the oder of fresh french fries. They are proud to show us their system... heated tank, wrapped fuel lines Raycor Hi-Speed filtration into fiber ones into da motah...! (it was a year ago..perhaps there was more) There are a zillion URL's...Goggle -make my own bio diesel- and prepare to spend a day learning how to do something basic & simple all you need is space & the time to devote to it. The trick is using ALL that you make or "the disposal" of your excess inventory. That whole group of Bio Diesel "shiners" had a pow-wow here some pretty simple & impressive ways of doing the same thing on the hardware. Prepare to spend about $0000.00 for the equipment... depending on how resourceful you are... or rich you think you are. Be the 1st one on the block and you'll be a Hero ever body & buddy will be stoppin by to buy or for a free education. ...we await the arrival of Moe Larry & Curly and their collective clue. and now w/o further responsible ad-ewe..!! THE Man who has the srtraight dope on the cold weather starting problems associated with B/D... with a dab of politics on the side for grins!!! (he's a regular Slush Limbaugh ol' Les he is...eh?) NOW...newz from our favorite Newz Guy Take it away Les...!  Oh man what a JAB...wait unti I hit you on the next one Bud!...even is even ....right? (Message edited by Jack_fids on February 10, 2011) | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 262 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213 Rating: N/A |
Tony I saw a video of a guy who was making his own bio diesel He had quite a set up and spent a lot of time collecting all the used vegetable oil to process. I was looking for the video but I don't have it on this computer. If you google it you might find it.. Interesting but not something that is easy. Also read that the bio diesel is not great in cold weather or even for that matter cool weather and that most find that they have to start the engine on good old low sulfur diesel to get the bio diesel warm enough to flow and burn. Gomer I don't know where Goer and his left wing nuts are from... We have a few up here too. I guess I am in a bad mood about hearing about Alberta's "dirty" oil and how our oil sands are the scourge of the environment. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 474 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Les They will tone down the rhetoric, once the supply source out of the ME gets interrupted. Our oil will suddenly become very desireable and also very clean. For those that don't realize it, we are supplying the largest portion of the oil that is imported into the US | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 475 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
To stay on topic as per BW request, I noticed at one of the golden arches where I get my senior caffein fix 75c the golden liquid was padlocked up drum tight. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 442 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
Hey JOE... (it did say Tony before but that was my mistake, it was late!) nice job on the Mc Donald's commercial you can always trust those Golden Arches for clean restrooms anyway for the most part AND as an after thought you stayed on topic too... nice to see you 're on the right side of the topic topic!! (we need all the support we can get) Thanks Les...!!! Great job ....as always... too bad you forgot the time & temperature again! Hey but you forgot to do it during the early farm report too so at least you have consistency! BTW...algore is bad mouthing the sands but his family & Bush's are secretly buying them up cheap. It's the way "Old Money" has always worked, drive down the value to buy cheap on the way to another monopoly.  Les...of all the people here YOU are THE Guy I love to make laugh the most TowelBoy is just a summer thing.no more...no less he laughs when I pass gas for cryin out loud! YOU tho are THE fresh frozen real deal...no filler. Hope you had twice as much fun being had as I had jabbing you on the sly..!! (Message edited by Jack_fids on February 10, 2011) (Message edited by Jack_fids on February 10, 2011) | ||
| tony denny (Papatony)
Registered Member Username: Papatony Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2010 Posted From: 74.206.82.239 Rating: N/A |
I wish to appaogize to all of the really great folks on this website that are always ready to give a considate answer to questions and not go off the deep end spouting thier ---- what ever it is they do. I will not ever in the future submit my self to posting any thing to this post. or have any future contact with it Please forgive me Tony | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 443 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
This is a place for BUSNUTS to "question, express an opinion, connect a viewer to your preferred product..." We gather here for many reasons other than to wait around for someone in need to post frantic question of people with a lot of knowledge about a lot of subjects, for free...not that anyone minds that, it's just that this is a COMMUNITY of PEOPLE. Most of us retain a sense of humor as a device to express camaraderie, respect & a desire to have fun. We've all busted knuckles on the same Coaches, made the same mistakes & fools of ourselves in public. We all paid too much, cut too short and thought to little somewhere along the line.....and we ALL know that we ALL have done it. WE'RE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT none lower, none higher, ALL BusNuts...people who are different. If you can't swallow Vanilla don't eat it, no one forces any one here to read anything or make them laugh or not laugh or LAUGH If you felt a swipe while here all you had to say was "I didn't appreciate that" which is pretty easy a lot easier than making a permanent commitment to something you will likely regret when you need some expertise for example. I gave you an honest, informative & experienced reply that was respectful.... tell me what could I have said that would make you happier? Taking offense where none is intended or even offered kind of limits a guys ability to interact with anyone. AND if you take seriously the razzing that goes on here between friends you are missing the concept ....different perspectives are FREE for the taking & adopting grab one and have some fun.... It's Winter....people can't wait to GET OUT... and when you're stuck IN.... writing on the wall becomes an art form. Come on back.... you had a good joke on us! | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 985 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 173.78.39.41 Rating: N/A |
"boil penguins" Everyone knows that penguins don't have the proper Cetane content to generate enough Foohorsepower - But, alas Tony will never know this fact 'cause he lost all "contact" with insanity - What a shame  | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 448 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
You're up late...  you got the shingles tooo?  you keep coming back for more.... can I assume you want in on the invisible type joke too? I hope you're at Dal's for the big surprise revelation, we'll all have a BALL...come on down. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1444 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.17  Rating: N/A |
Before using Bio diesel, remove and steam out the bus fuel tank. Remove any rubber fuel hose and replace with bio diesel rated hose . Have the gov , and if there really old the injectors rebuilt with Bio fuel gaskets. Bio is a fantastic fuel system cleaner , so unless precautions are taken , simply changing filters every 40 miles will be the smallest problem. Unfortuniatly the farm lobby is demanding diesel be adulterated with 5% bio, up from todays 2% with out notices being posted at the fuel pump. FF | ||
| Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Registered Member Username: Tdh37514151 Post Number: 266 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 98.28.100.21  Rating: N/A |
The only experience I have with Bio diesel is with the antique truck club I belong to. One of the members was using it in his antique truck. The truck ran fine and had no adverse effect on seals or the fuel system. However when the truck was not used under load or idled for any time at all it would wet stack or expel unburnt fuel from the stack. This would of course show up in a two cycle Detroit in the form of excess slobbering from the air box drains. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 348 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.61.124 Rating: N/A |
Wow Good info I was going to ask but I found what I needed in this very informative and entertaining thread. thank you Guys, and always thanks Ian. Thank you Tony for posting this .... Tony ... TONY where are you..........Hummm the evil one strikes again. Jack you got any Flatulence jokes so that we can completely hijack this one. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1221 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.4.4 Rating: N/A |
The city of Gainsville Florida has used greas for some time now. They fire the trucks up,run till warm,switch over to oil from ??? run the day and before coming in for the day,switch back to regular fuel and keeps on going. What happened to Tony? Did I say anything to offend him? GEE Just when we were getting to know him?? If so I apoligize. Gomer | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2024 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
One of the biggest obstacles is obtaining a long term SECURE source of base material.I've seen this locally. Then add the cost and labor to produce it. BTW, if some states or fed catches you using it, they are going to demand road tax. Otherwise, go for it. If I had a secure source, I'd use it, if I drove a lot of miles annually. I did add some to my old 1986 Chevy diesel a few years back. Blended used turkey fryer oil to fuel after running it through coffee filters. Ran fine and the exhaust smelled like cooked turkey while using it. Only had 4 gallons of oil to use, so it was a short experiment. | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 135 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 174.131.66.104 Rating: N/A |
A girl from Boston came through here on her way to Mexico with a schoolie that ran on straight veg oil. She started it on diesel the switched a valve to run on veg. She just filtered it before filling up. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 353 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.61.124 Rating: N/A |
GEEEZZZZ Marv see what you did. It's ALL your fault . what are the thoughts on used motor oil added to fuel. I bet that won't fly to well but I heard that Germany used this during the war when they were being choked for supplies. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 455 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
They were also using Coal Gas which is likely the reason.. aside from economy... | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 353 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.198.219  Rating: N/A |
Then there was wood gas which the Japanese civilians used during WWII. It was made by heating wood to the smoke point and drawing the smoke into the intake of a gasoline engine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Pmq2gu0GQ | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1223 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.4.4 Rating: N/A |
That is why the Germans invented synthetic oil and it is called AMSOIL on today's market of which I am a DEALER FOR. That is why Germany lost the war cause they couldn't start the weapons of minor destruction. So if ya wanna keep that BIG BAD VOLVO running forever you need to come and see me!! LOL I have incresed my fuel mileage 4-6 mpg on the road. Doug, That is what I referred to with the city of Gainsville here. Gomer | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 476 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Dalles That was also done in Holland during the war. Necessity is the mother of invention, since there was no gasoline available. A bus would pull a trailer with the "Generator "on it and haul passengers. Maybe that is where I picked up the busnut bug, got infected, laid dormand for more than a half century and then came alive. Joe. | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 205 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 67.174.144.159  Rating: N/A |
A neighbor of mine has been making it for 3 years and he runs 2 Mercedes off the stuff but always says he only runs about 10% in regular diesel. He made 2 55 gallon drum tanks with an internal eater out of 1 barrel inside another and used a Block heater. He collected used oil from the fast food places for free at first. Now some companies have hone in on it and they purchase it for a low price but have cut him out. He is always searching for new sources. You have to ad some chemical also that has a number attached which tel the regulators that you are asking it. And then they come out and check out your still so to speak and make sure you aren't making too much without paying revenue Found this on a bus site of a Bio-diesel dirty tank and heater, filter system | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 456 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
.........PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC..... Once the train is off the track there is no gettin it back on and even if you do it just goes kitty whoppuss again in 10 minutes. So whotz the point? OR WIT ONE MINUTE!!! I see the plot!! You just don't like my apples! You hang around the tree eatin & complaining Kick the Penguin he can take it...!! Beside's, so many other are givin he the boots why not me too...? OK Chromie that''s IT...! you & the low life lizzards WIN . .  . . . . . I've had enough .......I flippin quit.....!!! | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 358 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.144.61.124 Rating: N/A |
NO!!!! SAY it isn't so. We all LOVE and cherish precious penguins. we are waiting for Dalls party to show you just how much we really really love you.  | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 460 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
Liar...  | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 678 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 66.248.164.225  Rating: |
OK, a little basic info to start with -- Oil from plants (as opposed to oil from petroleum) cannot be poured into a diesel engine fuel tank and run safely. It has too many heavy, complex components that are either too waxy or will become too waxy with combustion. These wax portions will form deposits that can kill a diesel engine. So, you got oil and you want to run it in your bus -- what do you do? You have three choices: 1) You can make "Biodiesel"; this is a diesel fuel that's made from oil from plants. You take your raw oil and put it in a tank. You must get any impurities (little burnt bits of food if it's come from a Chinese restaurant, dirt particles if it's come from a mill without being used for cooking) out of it and you must remove the water. Usually people filter it and heat it to draw the water off. Then you put in chemicals (methanol and lye are most often used) to make the waxy parts of the oil precipitate out. Once this is done, you have an oil ("Biodiesel") that's composed of light fatty esters. This oil makes a good diesel fuel. It burns well and it won't condense on your cylinder walls, run down into your engine oil, and dilute it or cause a chemical reaction to make the engine oil gum up. But it will dissolve old deposits off the fuel tank and other system parts and clog your filter -- there's also a chance that these deposits will clog your fuel injector pump, necessitating a rebuild or clog your injectors, resulting in a bad spray pattern that will burn up your pistons and/or valves. But, generally, if the biodiesel is good quality, the vehicle's fuel system is clean, and the parts in the system won't be damaged by biodiesel, then biodiesel is a good fuel. (But there are a number of things that will make biodiesel "bad quality" -- impurities, water, incomplete removal of waxy stuff, incomplete removal of the methanol and lye. etc. "Bad quality biodiesel" will ruin an engine in no time. And biodiesel will wax up and gel like regular diesel fuel but it does it at a higher temp so you run into problems earlier in the winter. 2) Another way to run vegetable oil in a diesel engine is to build a system onto your exsiting fuel system that will heat the oil so that the waxy stuff is melted into an oily state. If you get vegetable oil hot enough, you keep it hot enough, and you get it into the cylinder right, the waxy stuff will burn and be expelled through the exhaust as gaseous components. There are a number of things to do this safely -- again the oil must be prepared. It must be dried of water (heat, chemicals, centrifuge) and solid impurities must be filtered out. And you must install a system on your bus to hold the oil, heat it, and valve it into the proper places. Most often this is a "two tank" system. You start the engine on your stock fuel system and once it's warmed up, the engine coolant will heat veg oil through a heat exchanger. Once the oil is hot enough, it can be valved into the fuel injection system. You'll also need a system for return of the unburned oil into the oil tank. And then when you're ready to shut your engine down, you have to switch back to regular petro diesel fuel to purge the oil out of the injection system (if it's left there, it will re-solidify back into the wax and damage your injection system). When you're doing "purge", the return fuel will be ordinary diesel fuel going into your veg oil tank but that's not a problem at the small %-ages. All this "second oil system" is a cost as upfront dollars, mechanical complication, and requires maintenance. 3) You can just dump small amounts of the veg oil into your diesel tank and hope that the normal flow through the fuel system and the cleaning additives that are in regular diesel fuel will clean up the impurities and deposits that the veg oil will leave before they damage the injection system or your engine. Do you like Russian Roulette? ADVANTAGES of "veg oil" as a diesel fuel -- if you can find it and get it, it's free or cheap. DISADVANTAGES of "veg oil" as a diesel fuel -- you have to collect it, haul it home or to your shop, store it. You have to clean it of water and impurities. If you're making "biodiesel", you have to have to buy and maintain tanks, heaters, valves, and the other parts that make up the system for converting the oil to biodiesel. You must also buy the chemicals to do the conversion and dispose of the waste products. You must also buy and maintain a storage system for the fuel after you have processed it. If you're running a "veg oil" system on your bus, you have to buy the tanks, onboard filters, heaters, lines and valves and install them. You also have to do the maintenance and operate the system properly. And (for biodiesel and "veg oil" systems, if your time is valuable, figure that cost in, too.) If you're just pouring veg oil into your tank, it would be a lot more fun, quicker and cheaper to take your bus down to the local VFW hall, park it in front of the Sherman tank on the front lawn, chamber a 37mm round, point the barrel at your engine block and pull the trigger. "Problems" with veg oil in a diesel vehicle are: 1) Filters clogging (stranded on the side of the road). 2) Fuel lines clogged up (SOTSOTR). 3) Fuel injector pump and/or injectors clogged or damaged (shop time - replace, rebuild, repair). 4) Other fuel system items (seals, o-rings, hoses) damaged by veg-oil based fuels (ST-RRR). 5) Injectors clogged with deposits, fuel sprayed into cylinders improperly resulting in melted pistons or valves and damaged cylinder walls or fuel that doesn't burn and get mixed with engine oil (ST-RRR). 6) Fines and legal costs if you're charged with burning non-taxed fuel. If you're still with me, I'd make two main points -- 1) If it's done right, veg oil CAN WORK as a diesel fuel; if it's done wrong, it can ruin your day, your trip, and your engine. 2) If it's done right, it will cost you many hundreds or thousands of $$$ in parts, supplies, ongoing maintenance and other costs. It won't be "free". But "biodiesel" is a prepared fuel product. Don't confuse that with "running veg oil in a bus engine in a 'two tank' system". And don't confuse that with pouring veg oil in your bus's fuel tank. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1454 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.116.102  Rating: N/A |
Good post, Bruce!!! Thanx, much. RCB | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 354 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.198.219 Rating: N/A |
Joe, it's still being done in Malaysia. I spoke with my cousin's wife who is from there. She said that many small villages use wood gas to not only run gasoline engines, but also diesels. Maybe I should hook up a 20' trailer and put a gasifier on it to run the bus! |
