| Author |
Message |
Bill Upnortdareh (205.188.209.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 10:31 pm: | |
I purchased a 4104 671 this summer, and had it delivered to Wisconsin by a driver. I haven't put a 100 miles on it since I recieved it. I took it into International dealership and also a DD dealer yesterday ,because it had a power loss and we noticed it was leaking oil pretty good between the head and block. This engine was sold to me under the impression it was rebuilt 15,000 miles ago. Took the head off and all the cylinders where scourned and the number 2 sleeve was cracked, pretty good ridge at the top of the cylinder and the airbox was full of crud. The mechanic said there had to be at the very minimun a 100,000 miles on this engine since it has been rebuilt. I need some guidance on how to handle this problem the correct way . After being lied to. Bill 4104 4032 |
degojo (68.35.160.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 10:38 pm: | |
shoot the bastard |
TWO DOGS (66.90.216.134)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 2:53 am: | |
not much you can do....get a o-haul kit...new cylinders, pistons etc. should be about600.00 and a good mechanic....no guarantees with used stuff unless you got it in writeing |
Phil Dumpster (12.230.214.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 4:58 am: | |
Agreed. That's what a buyer's inspection is for, to find stuff like that before you lay down your cash.
Some people will say anything just to get your signature on the title and cash in their hands knowing that there is nothing you can do about it later.
Fortunately, the parts to renew most of that engine are pretty cheap. |
FAST FRED (65.154.177.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 5:30 am: | |
"This engine was sold to me under the impression it was rebuilt 15,000 miles ago. "
ONLY seing a build sheet for the engine with date and coach serial number and hub milage is an indication of recent work.
Caviat Emptor,
After the rebuild , YOU will have the paperwork.
FAST FRED |
bill (207.109.1.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 7:59 am: | |
You bought lemons... make lemonade.
Chalk this one up as a lesson learned. A hard lesson, but one learned, nonetheless.
You realize now that you should have done more work to have it inspected PRIOR to your purchase. You should not trust anyone selling anything. It's business, not friendship. If you don't have it in writing, his word is as good as the paper it's written on... nothing!
I hope the body is in good condition. I would think it would be or you wouldn't have been attracted to the bus in the first place.
I suggest you suck it up, pay the cost of a rebuild, and then you'll have a really sweet engine in your dream bus. Get over it and get on with enjoying your dream. |
DonTX/KS (67.210.119.39)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 8:14 am: | |
Of course, this MIGHT be the mechanic ripped off the guy you bought it from too, hard to tell. The "driver" who apparently did not notice this oil leaking badly from the head/block area before departing, could have abused it also.
Bill has the best advice, now you have a known quality engine and not for a lot of bucks either. Maybe YOU came out ahead in the long run. All too often I see a bus buyer tear apart a perfectly good engine for overhaul, just to get to where you are about to be. You will have some good peace of mind on the highway, knowing the engine is in fine shape. |
Frank allen (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 9:46 am: | |
Gosh every bus forsale i ever seen had a rebuilt engine, i dont beleive any of them , and few mechanics . after being ripped off of thousands of dollars more than once. rebuild and get on with it . it will all go away after a while .
Frank Allen+
4106 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 12:38 pm: | |
I'd be interested in finding out what you paid for the 4104, but I'd understand if you didn't want to dosclose that.
Just considering how good or bad the deal was overall.
Gary |
Bill Upnortdareh (205.188.209.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 4:38 pm: | |
$15,500 straight body, very little rot , Inside finished I had it blasted and painted and rear cap put on for another $2,600 -Bill 4104-- 4032 |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.121.178)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 5:04 pm: | |
Bill-- did you have it "blasted and painted" befoe you put the 100 miles on it? I know a guy that had a bus sandblasted and he went through 2 engines before he figured out the fine dust from the sandblasting was getting past his air cleaner and ruining the engines.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
Bill Upnortdareh (205.188.209.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 5:18 pm: | |
It was done in Florida before it was delivered to me in Wisconsin. I did clean all 3 filters when it got here.Bill 4104-4032 |
Larry (208.18.102.185)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 6:00 pm: | |
Maybe the seller was not so bad. A 1200 mile trip (or whatever) is enough to re-bore the engine with a good dose of silicon in the air intake.
Larry |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 6:10 pm: | |
We just sandblasted my early '74 MGB.
I can't believe some of the places the sand got into.
Gary |
DonTX/KS (67.210.129.171)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 6:31 pm: | |
I think you guys got to the bottom of that in a hurry, very little question in my mind what happened. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 6:38 pm: | |
Wow. I didn't expect my "How much did you pay" question to bear so much fruit.
Gary |
Bill Upnorthdareh (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 6:39 pm: | |
Pulled the pan today and the oil pickup was almost completely plugged up with crud. Little pieces of gasket and metal and other numerous other pieces that couldn't be identified, this engine was being starved for oil thats why everything was scourned up, and maybe some silicon in there to, but the way the pickup looked the blasting wasn't the main problem. Inspected the blower it looks good, there are a few nicks in the vains. But the mechanic believes its ok. So we will continue on with the saga this week. I was one day away from heading out to Florida, all loaded any everything. Blessing in disguse could have been on the road in alot worst situation. I'll just take it on the chin, get up dust off and keep going.This other bus owner told me "your going to get and education" He sure nailed that right on the head when he told me that Bill --4104-4032 |
Bill Upnortdareh (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 6:41 pm: | |
So Gary is that good fruit? Bill 4104-4032 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 6:54 pm: | |
Maybe, maybe not.
You'll never know for dead sure.
In any case, your attitude is sure in the right place.
I have run across two major structural problems in my bird and am doing my best to keep a stiff upper lip as well.
Gary |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.121.178)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 7:00 pm: | |
Bill-- to continue your education you might get the old oil analyzed to see if there is a lot of dirt/silicates in it. My question now is how did it run when you bought it, or did you just buy it and have it delivered? Around here we always suggest people have their prospective coaches checked out by a bus mechanic/garage before they buy it.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
Bill Upnortdareh (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 7:40 pm: | |
I just changed the oil about a week ago. Before it left Florida it was having a heating problem so we had a bus shop in Orlando take a look at it . He put a shroud on it and some scoops on the side and flushed it out. I talked to him about the coach and he said at that time he thought there was a problem with number 2 cylinder and he was skeptical about it being rebuilt, and thats what he does for a living . Iam seasonal in my employment so I flew down one day and back the next. I thought I asked all the right questions and did and inspection the best I could in a short period of time. I knew when I bought it I would be putting alot of money into it. So I have learned alot in a short period of time. Bill- 4104 4032 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 7:54 pm: | |
Do you think you'll get another 6-71? Or will you use this as an opportunity to "Upgrade"?
Gary |
Bill Upnortdareh (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 8:39 pm: | |
The money says 671 I don't get a paycheck until 15 april 04 Iam on 7 months off 5 months so it really isn't a good time of year for me. I will rebuild this one and then go from there.I would like to get the whole underneath rebuilt before I go into and upgrade. I know now would be a good time to do it but the funds aren't there.Bill 4104-4032 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 9:18 pm: | |
Did you see the pair of 6v92's for sale in on the flea market section?
running 6-71's are a dime a dozen around here though, too bad you couldn't just pick up a good runner.
Gary |
Craig Craddock (66.229.90.204)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 3:26 am: | |
The whole assembly that holds all three air cleaners to the top wall of the engine compartment has about 8 nuts should be removed. This may have not been removed since new. You will be surprised how much junk is in this intake to the air cleaners. The intakes are on each side of the back of the bus. If they were not taped off the when sand blasted you might be surprised how much sand is in there.
This compartment is 8 feet wide by about 12 inches by about 12 inches. Tape off the air intake to your engine just below the large flexible rubber hose to the engine before removing the air cleaner assembly. If still oil bath take it lower air cleaner pans and etc. off first. This will require two people. Well worth the effort. Very nasty job.
Craig
4104-765 |
Bill upnortdareh (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 9:15 am: | |
Craig ---Thanks for the heads up on that compartment. Bill 4104-4032 |
TWO DOGS (66.90.210.164)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 9:35 am: | |
A 671 is a tough little engine....I saw two 671's on another bus board a while back for 300 ea. what a bargain....I'd be building a fresh one & then do the swap....wish I knew how to find them again...anybody know ??? |
DonTX/KS (67.210.119.106)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 11:54 am: | |
Your are dead on there Two Dogs, If I had a 4104, I would not be having a desire to repower, plenty of power for me,with economy and pulling power too.
Those 671's needed reversed for a 4104 as I recall. |
TWO DOGS (66.90.211.39)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 12:17 pm: | |
yeah....seems like they were on the left coast...anybody got a rebuilder for this guy... |
TWO DOGS (66.90.210.183)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 5:25 pm: | |
somebody else was talking about sandblasting a week or so ago....I was looking in the paper once,a fellow had a nice lathe...good price...was fixin' to get up & go buy it....the last sentence in his ad :"just sandblasted and painted"...I sat back down...for me.....NEVER arould anything that's machinery....it gets in EVERYTHING !!!!!! |
John Rigby (24.174.239.244)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 8:45 am: | |
Bill
Now you have the problem take your time. You can probably with time locate a used 4104 not converted with a rebuilt or very good engine at a good price. I purchase a seated 4104 for last year for a parts bus,I paid $2,700.00 it had a 7kw powertech generator (460 hours )3 roof airs a rebuilt 671 5000miles I talked to the shop that did all the maint on the bus 4 valve head rebuilt blower rebuilt intectors they spent $5700.00 on the re-build.This bus does not jump on take off in 1st or revese like mine does.
In just 8 months you will not believe the parts I have used off this spare bus.
So I feel you have seveal options espesially if you have time, and I know lots of great people here to help.
John |
Bill Upnortdareh (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 9:49 am: | |
Well - Its in the middle of getting rebuilt as we speak. I would love to find a parts bus, there doesn't seem to be many buses in Northern Wisconsin. But I will keep my ear to the ground on that one. We found out that the engine was not rebuilt by the guy I got it from ,It was from the previous owner. Who was in Ill health at the time, that is why he sold it. But the rods and bearings where recent,but not useable, the bearings are .030 over and the crank looks good. So I guess there is alot of room in the term REBUILT At least I will know where Iam at with this engine. Bill 4104 4032 |
DonTX/KS (4.76.53.155)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 10:11 am: | |
I feel that you have the correct attitude for sure. Terms can sure get twisted that way. To most people any opening of an engine is "rebuilt" or "overhauled", even if it is only putting in a new set of rod bearings on a bad crankshaft. |
Phil Dumpster (12.230.214.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 2:25 pm: | |
I personally think it's more trouble to swap a 6-71 in a 4104 than to in-frame one, plus you know what you're getting with the in-frame.
"Upgrading" also is too much trouble and probably not worth it anymore, what with this buyers market you can get a newer coach with modern running gear for less than the cost of "upgrading" a 4104. If you want modern running gear, you probably would be happier with a 4106 or later coach anyway.
Machine tools such as lathes are frequently sandblasted, with no ill effects. However, if one needs sandblasting then it has been mistreated already (probably left out in the weather, covered with a tarp) and that should always be figured into the price. Also, you don't use a very fine grit for that, plastic shot being preferable, sometimes called "bead blasting." You have to completely disassemble the machine, thoroughly clean, and lubricate while reassembling.
You can tell if this has been done to a machine tool by the sound and feel. Any scraping and you know it's scrap iron. I wouldn't dismiss a sandblasted lathe out of hand, but I wouldn't pay top dollar for one either. |
John Rigby (24.174.239.244)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 2:59 pm: | |
I dont know anthing about snd blasting or machine tool lathes, but over the last few years I have have had a few problems with my 4104 that fortunately have not had to be solved by thowing thousands of dollars at it. I have also found out that if you dont mind doing your own repairs, then the 4104 is the bus to have. If you want to stay away from rust problems its the 04.Fuel milage same the 04.manuverability its the 04. sports car of buses its the 06.The 04 and 06 are old but hard to beat.
John |
TWO DOGS (66.90.217.198)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 3:57 pm: | |
99% of those guys use sand....and ,it get into everything !! watch what happens....brakes wear out,wheel bearings ,unless EVERYTHING is taken apart,blown off,washed.....sandblasting is NOT the answer....if you want a part sandblasted...take it off the machine & don't return it to the machine till it's CLEAN...that 4104 probably has a million parts...& he will be getting sand out of things for the next 20 years.. |
Bill Upnortdareh (205.188.209.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 4:10 pm: | |
The only place I have found a trace of sand was in the window slides. I even went in to the compartment by the radiator filler neck with silver tape on a stick did'nt find anything.I guess only time will tell on this situation. Bill 4104-4032 |
TWO DOGS (66.90.212.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 5:57 pm: | |
Bill.. I'm not 'wishing' you bad luck...thought maybe somebody might learn from your misfortune...most want to argue tho... |
Kirby (12.77.238.67)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 9:03 pm: | |
Bill, is your rebuild being done with the engine in place, or out of frame? If it's out of the bus, you might take the opportunity to install some insulation to help keep the heat out of the bus interior. You can see an example at http://home.att.net/~kirbybus1
We live in Florida, and we don't need any extra heat inside our '04. The insulation helped quite a bit. |
Bill Upnortdareh (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 10:14 pm: | |
The rebuild is in place, but I will file that bit of info for the future .Thanks --Bill 4104-4032 |
Phil Dumpster (12.230.214.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 1:58 pm: | |
If you are so phobic about sand and sandblasting, then never drive your bus through the desert southwest. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 2:03 pm: | |
We rode the hog through a sandstorm south of Palm Springs last spring. I'm still cleaning sand out of stuff.
Gary |
Bob Wood so cal (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 3:04 am: | |
true, you can get free sandblasting along I-10 and hwy 111, most of the time. i live just over the hill, and we call that a good breeze. sure spins the windmills!!! if in the area, you have to see this: http://www.pstramway.com/
decent food up top and an awesome view. l8er, bob |
FAST FRED (65.154.176.240)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 6:09 am: | |
"If you are so phobic about sand and sandblasting, then never drive your bus through the desert southwest."
Even the stock air filters will keep the sand on the correct side of the engine (if serviced by Da Book) .
For a newly rebuilt engine ,I would install K&N , expensive insurance , but loads cheaper than another rebuild.
FAST FRED |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 12:54 pm: | |
"and we call that a good breeze"
Oh no. I've been driving I-10 for years, this was no breeze. Just about knocked us over a half a dozen times, and that's 1,200lbs, bike, us and the gear. we only had like 50 - 100 ft visibility.
I was in a sandstorm once before down there, but not as bad, and in a rental car on I-8.
I'll be checking for windstorms before we take the bike through there again.
Gary |
Bob Wood so cal (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 1:08 pm: | |
for sure, sounds like you got into one of the bad windstorms out there. its best not to go out there when it is like you described. even when the wind is not that bad you still can get a good blasting all too often. i avoid 111 if i can. all the best, bob |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 1:54 pm: | |
Yeah, it was an Experience--Kind like "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger" or in this case Smarter.
Gary |
mleibelt (66.187.37.49)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 12:41 am: | |
Bill
Where are you in Wisc...I'm near the Dells and may have a answer or 2 for you...
Mark
MCI 102A3 |
Bill Upnortdareh (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 9:09 pm: | |
Mark -----Iam in Shawano about 1 hour northeast of the frozen tundra----Bill 4104 4032 |
Bill Upnortdareh (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 9:12 pm: | |
Mark----Try northwest of the tundra---Bill 4104-4032 |