| Author | Message | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1464 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.215.35.33  Rating: N/A |
A curiosity: Late in the fall, I was bleeding the cooling system in order to have the Webasto ready for any winter trips we might take. Every thing in order, far as I knew. The coolant a 50.50 mixture of Antifreeze and distilled water, up to the top of the radiator, no leaks that I was aware of and engine had been running fine. Earlier this month, after no use during the winter, I attempted to start. I say attempted because the starter acted as if it were "stuck". Did that a few times with same results. Since it was still very cold in the morning I decided to wait till warmer weather. My first thought was that a connection was bad...or perhaps a fuse had been left disconnected. One set of cables to starter had always "done the job". After cleaning all cable connections at the starter, verifying the fuse was good and cleaning the connections at the batteries, it still would not turn over....so I decided, in my vast wisdom, to connect the unused set of cables from the batteries to the starter.... three group 31 Starts with two each + - cables to the starter, as originally configured with 8Ds. Got in the coach, pressed the start and...a similar very brief "hesitation" as earlier experienced, but then it caught but sounded "rough" for a brief minute, then some clattering sound....also brief..and every thing "sounded " fine, however... Smoke was pouring out the exhaust (normal on starts where the coach has been sitting for a long period of time)AND, a black wet substance covered the ground and pan under the Jake setup. (note, the Cummins engine is amidships, pancake style...laid on it's side) the rear head cover shows what looks to be a blown gasket with the black liquid stuff running down from there. A large area of the same stuff was below the connection of the manifold and exhaust pipe. This morning an inspection shows the "liquid" is mostly gone...which leads me to believe it was mostly "water"....and the coach started normally, sounded normal and very little smoke. Nothing came out at the Jake head connection, and nothing at the exhaust. Anyone ever experience anything like that?  FWIW...and thanx! RCB | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 457 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: N/A |
Chuck Did you check the antifreeze level now after the bus sat all winter? Do you have a leak of antifreeze into one of the cylinders. This will cause a hydraulic action as you try to compress the liquid when trying to start up. Just a thought. Bill | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 616 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245  Rating: N/A |
By the description, what you encountered was a classic case of Hydroclicing the motor.... you have a leak somewhere! | ||
| Jim Blumenthal (Jimblu)
Registered Member Username: Jimblu Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 208.168.241.141 Rating: N/A |
There may have been liquid (water/oil/fuel) in a cylinder. Your engine (220/262) should have a compression release lever you can use if the batteries are low to spin it. It is at the rear of the cylinders on the valve cover side. That will hold the valves open while you crank it if it locks again. If that lets it spin easily there is definitely liquid in the cylinders and do not release it and let it fire. If it has already locked and been started once, you may find a blown head gasket now, or in the future. You can inspect the head gaskets externally with a light, mirror, and soap bubbles. You look for bubbles or pressure in the radiator or coolant in the oil for internal leaks. If it is leaking somewhere, it needs to be replaced, not too hard for someone who has done it but you need to adjust the valves, injectors, and jake brakes (if applicable) if you pull the head. Also, the engine is below the fuel tank and if the check valve on the fuel pump leaks you can get fuel locking up the cylinders. There are three heads. (Message edited by jimblu on March 15, 2011) | ||
| latvia-69 (Latvia69)
Registered Member Username: Latvia69 Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2011 Posted From: 97.104.218.18 Rating: N/A |
the word is spelled hydraulicing. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 619 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: |
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| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1465 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.215.42.84 Rating: N/A |
Thanx, Bill...haven't done that as yet, but I had done after one of the start attempts...full to overflow. Jim...it's obvious you know quite a bit about the Cummins Pancake and the Jake setup. I have not had a chance to run it up again, but I did power wash yesterday so that any new stuff would be pretty telling. One question I might ask...there is a hydraulic looking hose...about an inch and a half diameter, coming from the far right Jake cover...toward the bottom of that cover, going to, as I remember, the middle "cylinder" cover. Would guess that is oil rather than hydraulic fluid...or? I intend to drive the coach prior to any dis-assembly. I have Jake manuals and complete rebuild information, but really appreciate your input....two-three-ten heads are better than one, no? Thanx, folks...Fids,as well.... for the attempt- ..... RCB | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1466 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.215.42.84 Rating: N/A |
BTW, Jim....haven't inspected for the compression release, but that sounds very interesting...and will, perhaps post a pic if it is not "obvious" to me... RCB | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 622 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: |
Some make attempts others...not so much... still others attempts are not so much so much for attempts!  (Message edited by Jack_fids on March 16, 2011) | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 273 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 174.91.230.95  Rating: N/A |
How cold did it get this winter? Up here in the north engines will sometimes piss a little coolant when it gets real cold....just a few drops as they transition from one temp to another. I have had a Volvo block weep a little all winter then tighten up in the spring and not shed a drop for the next 9 months then in the dead of winter it starts again. All this to say maybe something let a little coolant out on and off all winter... | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 423 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.211.128.245  Rating: |
Lies Lies and more Lies. Patrick Volvos never break or leak anything. if corvairs on the other hand had cooling systems they woulfd most certainly leak . Fids put you up to this didn't he | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 625 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
Georgie, Georgie, Georgie, Corvair's Do have cooling systems it's called AIR & it's free and they leak plenty ... plenty of hot air! (and Oil when not properly maintained)  I suppoze is that you & Mr. Fun will claim that Corvair's are responsible for global warming with all of that hot air output...  | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1467 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.215.182.206 Rating: N/A |
Really...really disappointed you guys derailed the thread...... Must be a different (better?) way.  FWIW RCB | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 631 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: |
It's coming soon to a forum near you! patience... not just for Doctors! BTW derailing is an individual accomplishment 1 is an idea 2 is a conspiracy 3 is a mob & 4 or more is a movement at least according to some MSM outlets... | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 353 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Check your dipstick. If it is making oil, you need to get the antifreeze out of it before you destroy the bearings. If you blew a head gasket, you can easily hear it, even see it, its not a small event firing that big of a hole. 220's can lose liner height and use a head gasket a couple times a year if you work it everyday and don't want to pull the liners to fix it right. I have never had a Cummins lock from coolant but I have had a lot of 220's lock from fuel. Is the pump on manual? Is the pan way over the full mark? Water or fuel? Cold startup is always a little rough sometimes it takes a few revolutions to get the fuel pressure right for all of the injectors. If coolant locked it up, it should be a gallon low + and it runs right past the rings into the pan so it would have to be a major coolant leak. Check the radiator. I am guessing the start batterys were just low. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1294 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.183.81  Rating: N/A |
RC Update on the bus motor!!! what is going on and die you find the problem? Gomer | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1477 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.212.225.56 Rating: N/A |
Thanx, Larry and Gomer...been awfully "distracted" lately, consequently have not paid attention to "important" things...like the coach. We've had wind that just won't stop here...I live in an Agriculture area in the third world...southern NM...and days have not been conducive to being out in the elements more than absolutely necessary....but, ...I am paying attention to the suggestions, so will be looking into the matter, hopefully, in the not too dusty future. With the price of Diesel at $3.90+...I'm not going anywhere soon. Thanx for the resurrection (??) of the thread! RCB | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1484 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.212.193.252 Rating: N/A |
Anyone recall this thread??? After a couple of weeks...maybe longer....I attempted a start today. Previous starts have been as "normal". BUT today, nothing on the first two or three tries. As if batteries were low (they weren't--13.3 on digital readout) Then, it caught and sounded normal. However, at the turbo exhaust port connection, what looked like dark thin oil, dripping from the connection...and same from the 4 inch exhaust pipe (flex) that goes over the turbo and on to the rear. Lots of hissing, a bit of liquid, same as described at the connection. After the engine warmed up, perhaps 5 minutes or so, all seemed to dissipate and things sounded, looked and acted normal. Shut it off, checked the oil in the engine. Normal, no bubbles, full to the line. I know nothing about Turbos, but what I thought might be a leak in the Jake (head) gasket, was nothing but a run down of dripping "fluid" from the flex exhaust directly above. (a very thin feeling oil, like hydraulic fluid??) I have manuals and have yet to check it out....any comments or suggestions? Thanx RCB | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1485 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.219.10.67 Rating: N/A |
Jimblu...are you lookin'...lisntn'??? Hope so. RCB |
