| Author | Message | ||
| Matt Romanek (32.97.182.46)
Rating: N/A |
I have a question that no body around here seems to know the answer to. I have a AN116/3 Cityliner that I want to convert. Several separate people have told me to have this registered as an RV first (mainly for insurance) so I can motor around and do my thing while the conversion process is happening. Nobody seems to know what EXACTLY needs to be done before the state will agree that it's an RV. I live in WA, but the DOL says they rely on WSP. WSP doesn't seem to understand the question. So does anyone know how far I need to go? I'd like to make a trip next month, and I know I won't be able to convert it by then, but I can't afford the $12,000 for BUS insurance that was quoted. Thanks! | ||
| Matt Romanek (32.97.182.46)
Rating: N/A |
I suppose to clarify, I will add that I've been told (unofficially) that I need two of any three of the following: - Sleeping Facility - Kitchen Facility - Bathroom Facility If that IS the case, what qualifies as a 'facility'? The AN116 has a bathroom in it, so, no problem. It also has a built-in water heater and hotdog cooker. Does that count as a kitchen? And I can recline the seats for sleeping. I imagine it takes more than that, though. But how much more? What if I go for a VERY minimalistic, studio-style bus with a mattress bolted to the floor and new-age motivational art on the walls? I can claim I only eat hotdogs and hot water, if it helps? | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
It varies from state to state. In Oregon (And I bet Washington), you only have to demonstrate that is no longer a passenger carrier. I did this a couple of months ago, cost me 221 to get my bus titles in OR. Gary | ||
| Jack_In_KC (24.166.166.142) Rating: N/A |
The answer varies by state and even varies by which registration office you go to. If you don’t get the answer you want at the first office you go to, try to find another. Your information is correct. Explain that you are installing a better kitchen and sleeping facilities but these are what you are using not. You didn’t mention “private, non-commercial use” that is also important. Jack In KC | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
Matt - This topic comes up every now and then on this and other bus message boards. The BEST thing to do is surf your WA state motor vehicle code book (most are online) to find out the definition of an RV in your state. CA calls them "housecars", not sure about WA. Once you find the definition, print it out so you can take it to the DMV with you to change the registration, in order to show the technician at the window the code section under which your vehicle qualifies. Remember, this is NOT a common transaction for them, so this info will speed up the process. Make sure you have seating inside for less than 10 folk to avoid any possibility they'll think it's a bus. Remember, even tho bus seats come out of the coach as a single unit w/ two seating positions, the DMV doesn't cout that as one, they count it as two. So no more than four seat pairs, ok? You may have to have the Highway Patrol verify the VIN, not a major thing, just make sure to use the correct form. You should have some type of drinking water supply (some 5-gallon jugs?); toilet (already there); cooking (in addition to hot dog warmer, add a Coleman camp stove); and sleeping quarters (set up a double bed in back and hang a sheet across the bus for privacy). Another thing that helps is when you approach the window, tell the tech that you've got a real interesting registration challenge for them, and you'd like their help getting it done "right". As you well know, most of their day is fairly routine, actually a little boring, so if you approach them in a friendly way with "something different", lots of times they'll perk right up and become extremely helpful. All depends on their attitude, time of day, etc. Best bet: early in the morning, while they're still working on their first cup of office coffee. This is an instance where you need to do your homework well before you go to the DMV. . . Good Luck, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (67.75.137.144)
Rating: N/A |
What state are you in? Every state is different. In TN all we needed to do was prepare a written and notarized statement saying that we had sleeping facilities, cooking facilities and toilet facilities. No one looked at it. Our Eagle is now licensed as a motorhome. I have heard others place sleeping bag or air mattress (sleeping facilities), a gas grill or even an electric hot plate, I guess a microwave would also apply (cooking facilities) and a self-contained porti-potti (toilet facilities). These things do not need to stay in it. They can be borrowed and removed. But this does not apply to all states. | ||
| madbrit (65.37.91.159) Rating: N/A |
According to my local DMV, the requirements are a Federal spec. I tis up to the individual States to implement what they want. Arizona's specs are:  | ||
| madbrit (65.37.91.159) Rating: N/A |
I'll try this a different way as the Word file won't upload......... Motor home Definitions 28-4301. Definitions. In this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires: 21. “Motor home” means a motor vehicle that is primarily designed as temporary living quarters and that: (a) Is built onto as an integral part of, or is permanently attached to, a motor vehicle chassis. (b) Contains at least four of the following independent life support systems if each is permanently installed and designed to be removed only for purposes of repair or replacement: (i) A cooking facility with an on board fuel source. (ii) A gas or electric refrigerator. (iii) A toilet with exterior evacuation. (iv) A heating or air conditioning system with an on board power or fuel source separate from the vehicle engine. (v) A potable water supply system that includes at least a sink, faucet and a water tank with an exterior service supply connection. (vi) A 110-125 volt electric power supply. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
In Oregon, they will allow a "Shell" to be registered as an RV. Don't have to deal with all of the above nonsense, thankfully. Gary | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A |
Here is Washington's Definition: RCW 46.04.305 Motor homes. "Motor homes" means motor vehicles originally designed, reconstructed, or permanently altered to provide facilities for human habitation, which include lodging and cooking or sewage disposal, and is enclosed within a solid body shell with the vehicle, but excludes a camper or like unit constructed separately and affixed to a motor vehicle. [1990 c 250 § 19; 1971 ex.s. c 231 § 3.] Also of interest: RCW 46.12.030 Certificate of ownership -- Application -- Contents -- Inspection of vehicle. The application for a certificate of ownership shall be upon a form furnished or approved by the department and shall contain: (1) A full description of the vehicle, which shall contain the proper vehicle identification number, the number of miles indicated on the odometer at the time of delivery of the vehicle, and any distinguishing marks of identification; (2) The name and address of the person who is to be the registered owner of the vehicle and, if the vehicle is subject to a security interest, the name and address of the secured party; (3) Such other information as the department may require. The department may in any instance, in addition to the information required on the application, require additional information and a physical examination of the vehicle or of any class of vehicles, or either. A physical examination of the vehicle is mandatory if it has been rebuilt after surrender of the certificate of ownership to the department under RCW 46.12.070 due to the vehicle's destruction or declaration as a total loss. The inspection must verify that the vehicle identification number is genuine and agrees with the number shown on the title and registration certificate. The inspection must be made by a member of the Washington state patrol or other person authorized by the department to make such inspections. The application shall be subscribed by the registered owner and be sworn to by that applicant in the manner described by RCW 9A.72.085. The department shall retain the application in either the original, computer, or photostatic form. [2001 c 125 § 1. Prior: 1995 c 274 § 1; 1995 c 256 § 23; 1990 c 238 § 1; 1975 c 25 § 8; 1974 ex.s. c 128 § 1; 1972 ex.s. c 99 § 2; 1967 c 32 § 8; 1961 c 12 § 46.12.030; prior: 1947 c 164 § 1, part; 1937 c 188 § 3, part; Rem. Supp. 1947 § 6312-2, p It looks like all you have to do is comply with the definition and apply for the title. Where it asks for body type or some such thing, specify "motorhome" as it sounds like it meets their definition already! Every state is different and Washington is no exception. I urge you to go on the web and read the motor vehicle code - know it before you go. BTW - Arizona is starting to sound like California. Their definition is excessive under Federal law which specified what is allowed, and I bet it could be challenged, but that is a different discussion. Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| Matt Romanek (32.97.182.46) Rating: N/A |
Wow, thanks everybody! I have been looking at the Department of Licensing for the last week, and the State patrol can't figure out if it's an RV inspection (which they no longer do) or a commercial inspection (which it isn't). To make things more interesting one DOL person sent me to the Department of Labor and Industries for a permit to modify the bus. (Thankfully, after four levels of L&I reps I got to the district manager who said: "What? No, you don't need anything from us.") It was the Washington code that I hadn't been able to find on Access.wa.gov, so thanks for the excerpt! I will see what I can find. Once we get a chance to pull some seats out, I'll wander over to a DOL office (since they're independant businesses around here) and see about getting it titled. Thanks! | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A |
Try this: http://www.leg.wa.gov/rcw/index.cfm | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
You never said KC Missouri or Kansas. If Kansas, I can give you some cool guidance. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
Erase that last post, I got confused on the way down it. | ||
| Jayjay (205.188.209.8) Rating: N/A |
This has been an elightening thread,but remember to have FEWER than 16 seats in it, to negate the CDL worry. Even when registered as an RV (motorhome etc.) if it has more that 16 seats, (includung the driver's seat) a CDL license is still required. (Fed. DOT ruling) Cheers...JJ | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.29)
Rating: N/A |
Do you have a link to that ruling? | ||
| mike 102 (209.166.89.56) Rating: N/A |
I was told by the dol and wsp both. when i have cooking facilities,toilet facilities,and sleeping facilities,take the coach to the wsp office in burlington or marysville and they will change the title designation to motorhome. they do a walk through,and no safety inspection is done. sounds easy enough, i will find out next month. mike | ||
| mark (66.43.13.91) Rating: N/A |
It's true what Gary said about Oregon ... I took my stripped out shell down to DMV and had it lisenced as an RV, Also, FWIW, 10 years ago I owneed a small travel trailer that I removed the built-in gas range and added a coleman stove (portable). That way I did not have to lisence it as a travel trailer - it was just a utility trailer according to DMV guidelines. In oregon, a travel trailer or RV is defined as having PERMANENT sleeping, bathroom, and cooking facilities! -Took out the permanent cooking facility- changed into a utility trailer- no problem! mark 75 gillig636D | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (69.3.75.22)
Rating: N/A |
Just got my new tags last week, and boy was I relieved for that hurdle to have been crossed. I had to fill out several forms for the re-titling into non-commercial status, and all went without a hitch. (Texas, MC9) Once the clerk had all my paperwork she told me to go sit down and wait. When she called me back up, I peeked and saw brand new plates and was so relieved I didn't pay that much attention. After paying slightly more than $200, (+the sales tax) I noticed that the designation was now "PRIVATE BUS". Hmmm. Is that good or not I wondered? It's even stamped into the tags themselves. I decided not to worry about it and got out of there, with tags in hand. A few days later I saw a small church van, obviously in service for carrying passengers, with the same designation and am now wondering if I should have pressed more for the motorhome distinction. Since I don't have any of the living facilities installed yet, I suppose I'll just let it be for now and consider what to do once I have plumbing, kitchen, etc. installed. Does anyone know if "Private Bus" is a distinction I wouldn't want? TIA, Chuck | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.213.91) Rating: N/A |
isn't all this STRANGE....I got my tags last week...same state,Texas...they wanted a weigh slip,pictures,insurance...everything was goin' kinda slow...till the lady saw the 'mode in one of the pictures...as soon as she saw that,paper started flying ..I "could" have just 'placed' a 'mode in there & took a picture,but, it was hooked up to the holding tanks (etc)..I think it all depends on the clerk you are dealing with... | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.23)
Rating: N/A |
In Kansas, if you leave it a bus, tags and taxes total $40 for a 76 4905. If you demand that it is an RV, then the "Hit the Silverhairs" tax comes in and you will pay in four digits! If you get even more silly, they will give you a tag with a weight restriction on it! Like most states, you can screw it up unless you know what you can get by with. I became an official Texan last week, Texas CDL and all, so now I have to study a whole new set of rules. | ||
| TWO DOGS (66.90.218.105) Rating: N/A |
my Eagle 'had' 16,100 pounds on the title...I was sure hopeing they would accept that..since Texas charges by the pound for licenceing...but,had to get a 'new' weight...I think the tires weigh that much  | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.9)
Rating: N/A |
Chuck-- I would be worried about the "Private bus" designation if a "Public bus" is a coach for hire designation. It sure sounds like they kept you commercial instead of giving you motorhome status. RV's are exempt from needing commerical licenses to drive them. BTW, someone asked about the "non-commercial" driver's licenses Texas was requiring a couple of years ago for RV's that weighed over 26,001 lbs, but when I checked the Texas DMV laws and wrote to the DMV for clarification a couple of weeks ago, it appears they don't have a "non-commercial Class B" license anymore. It sure made a big stink a while back with roadside inspections and tickets handed out to Texas RV'ers with motorhomes over 26,001 lbs. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.19)
Rating: N/A |
Technicality Geoff, but did you not mean to say Gross Weight Vehicle Rating as opposed to what it actually happened to weigh? I just turned my CDL from KS into TX for a new one, will let you know in a day or two what it actually says, they mail them to you here. \ In Kansas the designations of private bus, public bus, commercial bus, housecar and such are non existant and therefore meaningless to us. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Yeah, each state might vary a little bit, but the nice and friendly DMV lady in SW Oregon told me the requirements were FEDERAL in nature and probably would not vary that much state to state. I bought a 1974 Crown ex-school bus in SW California and brought it North to OR with a 30 day trip permit. The seller gave the permit to me free. To convert it into a RV in Oregon, one needs permanent sleeping and cooking facilities only. I bought a $10.00 mattress with a $5.00 frame and bolted it to the rear floor using turnbuckles. Then I bought a $50.00 propane apartment stove/range and bolted it to the floor also. Used the bus seat holes. I then had "permament" cooking and sleeping capability. Then got it licensed as a RV in OR. No big deal. Cost $335 for 3 years, which is a lot. WA may be more or less. Got insurance thru Progressive. Goood luck with your dream. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Henry, Oregon will allow a "Shell" to be titled. You don't need anything inside at all. I just did it in September. Gary | ||
| H3Jim (68.105.103.139) Rating: N/A |
When I bought my bus, I had the dealer, Prevost, say that it was a motorhome. I never needed to prove this to anyone else, and there were no problems. DMV just registered it as a motorhome from the dealer's transferred title. All the seats were still in it, although I unbolted them on the trip home. I never stopped at the weigh stations either, but the driver I hired was nervous about this and had me do the driving when we passed them. Had 20 day temp registration from New Jersey for transport, also said MH on it. | ||
| Richard Jones (209.179.168.35) Rating: N/A |
Last month I changed the registration on my MCI in Washington state. I was not able to title it as a motorhome or RV until the conversion is completed. It is titled as a "private bus", not for commercial use. Once the conversion is done, then I will need to return and have the State Patrol inspect it and verify that it has been converted into a motorhome. Since it now is a private bus, State Farm insurance covered it for libilty only. When the bus is done, they will then insure it for whatever coverage I want. The state requires that I also show receipts for the materials or items that are purchased. This is for sales tax purposes. BTW the plates were cheaper as a private bus than as a RV. (Go figure!) Richard Jones '83 MCI-9 Castle Rock, Wa. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
Make real sure you really want what you are trying to get. In Kansas, I titled and registered my bus as a BUS. I insured it thru USAA as a BUS. The tags and tax were $40 a year, and would have been over $1200 had I done as others and registered it as a motorhome. In Kansas, if it is over 35 years old, you can get an antique tag for it, does not limit your useage a bit. | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (67.136.222.151)
Rating: N/A |
The main advantage to having it tagged as a motorhome is that it removes the requirement for a CDL due to the weight of the converted bus exceeding the max limit of a standard operators license of 26,000 lbs. Once a motorhome it can weigh what you want it to, the only limit is the tires, axle weights and any bridges you may want to cross over......(grin). Peter. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.35)
Rating: N/A |
Well, maybe in your state. I have NEVER seen any connection from the feds who did the CDL thing concerning how something is "tagged" or what it actually weighs (the law speaks ONLY of GVWR, not weights). How it is used, how it is manufactured, but never ever how it is tagged or titled. Since I already had a CDL anyway, that was never a concern of mine. If that loophole really existed, anybody could just tag their Class 8 (Kenworth Semi) truck as an RV (it usually has all the RV stuff to qualify) and go haul the freight! Might work, and would save several thousand a year on tags as well as not having to go thru the scales, not have a weight limit, and you could make even more since you would be excused from the logbook requirement. Dunno Peter, just don't think it would work, you try it and let me know, OK? :-) | ||
| madbrit (67.136.222.151) Rating: N/A |
Don, I am not even going to discuss this weight thing as it has been thrashed out so many times I am bored with it. If you had read what I have written in the past, you would remember that Arizona specifically made laws about this exact thing by excluding "toterhomes" with 5th wheels and truck chassised "toy boxes" from being exempt from the heavy use tax. Peter. |