| Author |
Message |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 7:27 pm: | |
i bought the older gm coach.."the man show"..... pay for it saturday....so i'm gonna be playing gm coach remodel instead of working on my mci-9.... its an older conversion that i bought cheap.... a "54 model, no less.... you've all seen a few pics, i'll get some more....anyone wanna go to austin and play saturday???? |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.170)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 7:31 pm: | |
Congrats Jim,
I would love to come and play, but it's just too far from Arizona. Anyway, I hear a Freightliner calling me to work on her. Have a fun time and do send pics and a report of the trip.
Peter. |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.142.122)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 7:42 pm: | |
Sideways? Sideways? Jim, I thought us TX boys knew a good thing when we had it, but you might need to see a professional grief counselor in advance. You AIN'T gettin in a whoopty doo RV Resort with the front door on that Man Show thaing! ;) |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 7:45 pm: | |
Sure he will, he'll just need to get a good run on the place, get some momentum when he crashes the gates.
Gary |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.170)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 8:02 pm: | |
Nah, just install some flash Schlage door furniture and they will be eating out of his hands......... LOL.
Peter. |
John Rigby (24.174.235.149)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 9:01 pm: | |
We hav,nt seen the pics. Were are they posted??What is it an 04??
John |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 10:04 pm: | |
An uncle of the 04 is more like it, photos are posted elsewhere on this board a few days ago. Let me know if you can't find them.
There are certainly those that would consider a move from an MCI to a GM "upwards" instead of "sideways". There don't seem to be any MCI automatic tranny 1954 models running around out there.
Almost as good as a Brill! |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.142.122)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 10:33 pm: | |
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/5074.html?1071527548#POST29820 |
BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.195.226)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 11:42 pm: | |
Don, be calm, take some deep breaths the hysteria will pass I'm sure (grin)
Gotta love a "Man Show" Bus...
With that door curbs should be a snap!
Brian |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.28)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 7:19 am: | |
I think that door is wonderful, Jim says it has to go. He views the bus as a HVT (High Value Target) for crooks, wants a door from steel plate.
Might recheck the records Jim, I was unable to find a case history of a stolen one for the last 50 years!
Damn I wish I was free tomorrow to go to Austin. Looks like a case of "havin too much fun" to me. |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 5:16 pm: | |
i just want 1 that will stay latched... i'm still thinking about making 1 from square tubing...covering it with aluminum... and installing some sort of window..... any ideas??? i'm headed out about 7 in the morning... 2 8d batteries.. air compressor...new battery cables... jumpercables... 4 gallons good diesel...startring fluid....new bottle of jim beam rye whiskey to christen it with (in case it starts).... gonna be fun i can already tell..... |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 6:45 pm: | |
I've been thinking about making a driver's door the same way. Then I got to thinking about how the latch would work, doorseals, etc... and decided to have another beer instead.
Gary |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 7:25 pm: | |
the "man show" has a regular looking house storm door.... kinda cheesey... it broke where the builder put an rv latch in... but the deadbolt works... i don't want that much glass exposure... i want the upper half for window.. for the outside mirror....and ive had several beers.... planning and loading for tomorrow..... you get rid of the extra roamer???.... or you planing on moving it later??? |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 7:35 pm: | |
I wouldn't want that door either. I framed in my door and am skinning over it.
My entry is just forward of the rear wheels, I'm using a conventional RV door.
The guy in Minnesota is very interested, I think he will take it. I have to clean things up and snap some pics this weekend. It's raining here now. What a pain.
Gary |
BrianMCI96A3 (69.34.195.226)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 10:18 am: | |
Jim, while I wouldn't want that much glass either, a small peep window down low on the door to see the curb might be a nice, and should be easy to install.
Brian |
jmaxwell (66.81.36.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 12:49 pm: | |
Curb windows are nice: mine saved me from crunching a motorcycle once while executing a tight right turn that he had decided to "beat me" to. On the other hand, my wife hates it, says all she can see is shoulder of th road that makes her edgy, except in Mexico, where there are no shoulders. The dogs love it though. |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 6:02 pm: | |
i like the idea of a door in a different spot.... but i dont think the gm coach will stand the new stress....i figured out how to make a new door frame.... now if i can find trim and aluminum.. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 7:02 pm: | |
That is a "Framed" bus, right? Like my Bluebird?
As long as there is a rigid perimeter for the door that is anchored to the rest of the structure, you're fine.
In the case of my bird, the original corner door was a weaknes, but that's another story.
Gary |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 9:46 pm: | |
Gary -
All GM transit and highway coaches, starting with the 719s back in the middle 1930's, are basically built like an airplane - the outer skin is the chassis. There is no conventional frame underneath them like your Bluebird. The baggage bay and axle bulkheads, as well as the floor, all contribute to the structural rigidity of the vehicle. (Note, this does NOT apply to skoolies built on a GM chassis - those are basically a box bolted on a truck frame, completely different than the transit & highway models.)
A couple of examples of the engineering of the GMs: The bulk of the powertrain weight is suspended from the roof, and the load is distributed approximately 2/3rds of the way forward. If you ever gut a GM, you'll see this in the roof ribs. Second example is the why of the LH rotating engine - because when a LH engine revs in the GM V-drive, the torque reaction of the motor is "into" the engine support bulkhead, not away from it towards the bumper. You might say that it kinda gives the coach a little extra "push". . .
HTH, any other questions, send me a note by clicking on my name above,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.117.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 12:22 am: | |
Gary, you see, several coach builders utilize Monocoque..err make that Unit Construction... as the basis for their buses, and that includes Prevost.
It's far easier to build, has inherent strengths, and eliminates the need to make space for frame rails thus allowing a greater flexibility in storage options.
Brian |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.170)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 7:07 am: | |
"Second example is the why of the LH rotating engine -
because when a LH engine revs in the GM V-drive, the torque
reaction of the motor is "into" the engine support bulkhead,
not away from it towards the bumper. You might say that it
kinda gives the coach a little extra "push". ."
RJ,
One would think it was easier to hang the motor the other way around rather than reverse the rotation. Unless they found it tore out from the bulkheads after designing and building the V drive and therefore it was cheaper to reverse the motor instead of retooling the transmission?
Peter. |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.117.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 8:32 am: | |
Peter, from what I gather, getting a DD to run BACKWARDS is not difficult, and getting one to run correctly in the opposite direction is little more than a change of cam.
Brian |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.170)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 9:11 am: | |
Brian,
I know that, but I just wondered why do it if all they had to do was design the "V" drive to sit the other way around?
Peter. |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.117.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 10:42 am: | |
Well Peter, the first Allison V drive was built for transit use in 1946. The first use of the V-drive in GM busses was not for several years afterwards.
So, GM took an existing transmission and adapted it to their application.
Why would you go through the huge expense of researching, redesigning, testing, and retooling... when getting the engine to run the opposite way is simpler, easier and cheaper, with the existing transmission?
Brian |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 10:55 am: | |
threads gonna get interesting::: there have been direct reversing engines in the marine industry way before city transits...the engine would be stopped... various parts.. lifters..controls..would be moved to a diferent position and the engine could be started in the opposite direction... no need for a transmission...very simple.... |
TWO DOGS (63.185.80.192)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 11:32 am: | |
I had to get out ,run across the road,slide this big gate open,run back to the truck,get in,drive through the gate,pull parking brake ,get out & go close the gate....when I came back,(accidently let clutch out after applying parking brake)...smoke was coming out of the air cleaner....yep...diesels run backwards...even when ya' don't want them to |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 12:27 pm: | |
My son has an old (60’s era) three wheeled golf cart that was manufactured by Harley Davidson. To go backwards, you stop the engine (actually it stops automatically anytime you take your foot off the accelerator pedal), pull a little lever and push the accelerator. The engine starts automatically and is now running backwards and the cart goes backward. Release the accelerator and the engine stops. Push the lever in, push the accelerator and the engine starts in the opposite rotation and you go forward. Pretty neat. It is even street legal and licensed. Would probably make a good “belly buggy” for a bus!
Richard |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.117.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 2:12 pm: | |
Richard, I remember those old AMF/Harley golf carts, I was a caddy at a local country club in the late sixties...
Though the three wheeled carts were never as popular as the four wheeled ones, they used the same drive train and, as you say, I remember that the engine shut off when you came to a stop.
I also remember the handle you pulled to put it into reverse...
Pretty cool idea when you think about it.
Brian |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 3:26 pm: | |
Brian -
Actually, the Yellow Coach (predecessor company to GMC Truck & Coach Division, but still owned by GM) Model 719, which came out in the mid-1930's, was the first production coach to incorporate David Austin's V-drive. Austin had designed the layout for the experimental Greyhound double-decked Highway Traveler, but that model was never put into production, only a prototype was built. The 719 used a BIG inline six-cylinder gas engine mated to the four speed manual box. The next model, the 743, introduced about 1937, utilized the then-new "GM Diesel" 6-71, which became the workhorse engine of the bus industry until the 8V71s took over with the PD4106 in 1961.
The Allison Division of GM did develop the V-drive automatic transmission for transit coaches, and were the first to do so, but the V-drive powertrain layout had already been in commercial service over 10 years when the slush box hit the market.
(Side note: The 719 introduced a lot of things we now take for granted in a coach: rear engine, underfloor baggage bays, integral construction, etc. The 743 introduced a/c and the diesel.)
Peter -
If you think back to the era when this drivetrain was originally designed, remember the vast majority of highways were little more than narrow two lane roads. Putting the cooling system on the street side of the coach provided "cleaner" air than if it was on the curb side - less debris, weeds, etc. getting sucked into the radiator. Especially in rural areas (which was most of the country back then) where the width of the coach would frequently put it slightly over the shoulder's edge. (I worked for a charter company in the late '70's that had three 05 Eagles in their fleet. The Eagle's radiator is on the street side rear, and the A/C condensor is on the curb side rear. The shop pressure washed the A/C condensors twice as often as the radiators, and when they were done together, the condensor always had more crud in it than the radiator.)
Once the cooling system's location was determined, it sort of dictated the rest of the powertrain's layout.
Now I know someone's going to jump in here an make note of the fact that the RTS (and some other transits) were offered with RH engines. I'm aware of that, and I understand that a lot of them have suffered various chassis maladies, especially those with the shaker S-50 motors installed. But I'm addressing the original design. . .
Two other advantages to the V-drive powertrain: Interior room and wheelbase. Because it takes up so little space in the rear of the coach, there's more room for people inside. This space-saving design also allows a longer wheelbase, which equates to a better ride. Example: The 40-foot PD4905's wheelbase is 318.5" - longer than several of today's 45-footers!!
The interior space thing intrigues me. Please check out the new BNO thread: "Interior space".
When you get right down to it, the GM coaches really were (and still are!) engineering marvels.
HTH,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.117.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 6:03 pm: | |
RJ, that is all very interesting information, although... the V drive we were discussing was an Allison, AND as I pointed out in this thread, the first ALLISON V drive (not the first V drive)came into being in 1946, well before it's usage in GM coaches.
Brian |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.117.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 6:09 pm: | |
Rereading my earlier post I can see where I made the statement
"The first use of the V-drive in GM busses was not for several years afterwards."
I can see where that might be misconstrued, you were meant to imply the Allison V-drive.
Brian |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.170)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 6:23 pm: | |
Thanks Guys for the reasoning behind the reverse rotation, very interesting.
On a seperate note:
We had some bad news Friday, my buddy who was helping me build my Freightliner, was killed in a fire in his house on the lot behind my house. We hadn't long got back from Las Vegas where we collected the foam board for the insulation.
Peter. |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.117.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 8:51 pm: | |
Sorry to hear about your buddy Peter, damn shame.
Brian |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (65.74.64.127)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 10:02 pm: | |
I expect that's going to take some getting adjusted to, Peter. Sorry about the news. Good luck in dealing with it.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.63.41.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 4:01 am: | |
Very sorry to hear about your friend Peter. Bob |
madbrit (67.136.219.191)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 5:31 am: | |
Thanks Guys,
We will miss him.
Peter. |