| Author | Message | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1289 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.183.81  Rating: |
On my 04 the clutch is so hard to push that you almost have to stand on it to get it to operate. Question was ask to the prev owner and was told that the springs were wrong in the pressure plate.Now are the springs replacable or just replace the whole thing?? I thought about putting an air assist to it but price put a stop to that. This is a BUS RELATED Question and not involving Politics or religion. So serious inquireys are needed LOL Gomer | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 457 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: |
The first thing to do is to properly adjust everything by the book, starting at the pedal and working your way back. Pay particular attention to the distance from the bell crank to the bulkhead per the instruction. Set the clutch pedal lever to be 4-1/2" from the floor by adjusting the stop collar on the pedal. When you are done, check the pedal free play with your hand and not your foot. It is a pretty sensitive adjustment. You also want to be sure that the clutch shaft is lubricated as are all other pivot points. I doubt very much that it is the actual clutch springs as they are pretty specific. There are 30 of them. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 435 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 72.211.128.245  Rating: |
Marvin get to the gym and focus on leg presses and squats. let us know what amount of weight was your point of fatigue after 3 sets of 10 repetitions. then we can help figure out where the problem is. by the way it sure would be great if you were going to Dalla's shindig | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
Registered Member Username: Lukeatuscoach Post Number: 223 Registered: 1-2001 Posted From: 72.82.200.62 Rating: |
Hi Gomer & Folks: Yes, you can replace the springs, but you will need a press to disassemble and reassemble. The proper springs in the 4104 clutch should be "Blue". If you need furher help, give me a call toll free at: 1-888-262-2434. I Hope this HELPS!!! Happy & SAFE!! Bussin' to All. LUKE at US COACH | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1291 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.183.81 Rating: |
Ya'll are going to make me get dirty now! I have Da Book and will unhook the linkage at the tranny and go from there. Luke good to hear from you and I will check the color andget back with you.Again thanks Gomer | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2049 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: |
You have probably done it, but unhook the linkage at clutch and check for stiffness in linkage from back to front. Also, return spring shouldn't be too stiff. Sometimes people put a stiff return spring to compensate for dry, binding linkage. may not be a problem on yours, but as a clutch plate wears, the levers on the pressure plate end up getting more off center and cause the FORCE REQUIRED to INCREASE (to push them in to compress the springs and release the disc). I think that the 4104 manual lists the spring pressures and proper settings. Unfortunately, many clutch replacements include a rebuilt pressure plate with who knows what springs anymore. I've seen that diaphragm type pressure plates have much lower operating pedal pressure, however I don't know whether they make a version for the 4104. Mine had an air assist from when they weren't insanely expensive and were awesome; pedal pressure like a car. If you are the inventive type, My ACF Brill had an air clutch, which consisted of a Roto chamber brake chamber attached to the clutch arm and used an air brake treadle to operate. It had low pedal effort. It was, however more difficult to modulate when engaging.I was going to add a shock absorber to the clutch arm also, but never got around to it. I did add a restriction to the air line, which helped a lot. You could rig this setup up for approx. $150 to $200. BTW, you need air pressure to come up to release clutch if air system is empty. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1281 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.25.140  Rating: |
Gomer, What Len said plus: Proper clutch adjustment is very important and something I spent a lot of time doing on my 4104. I also had to replace most of the rod forks, pins and bellcrank arms for both trans and clutch linkage. There was slop at every connection, so, by the time it got to the clutch lever it was huge. The bellcrank arms were so worn that the bushings were completely gone in some. Same for the transmission linkage. I replaced just about everything and the clutch once again worked great. My clutch pedal pressure isn't like an auto but it sure is a lot better. I would strongly encourage you do this before you go digging into the clutch, that is an even worse job than the linkage!! | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 465 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: |
Gomer If you want to do the roto chamber setup like John mentioned I have a brand new old stock roto chamber you can have for $80 ($300 new) + shipping. Contact info in profile. Bill | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 156 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 173.180.124.202 Rating: N/A |
be aware that if you have your clutch and pressure plate rebuilt that the rebuilder understands that it is for a bus , if not they will put TRUCK PADS AND SPRINGS in them and you will have to hang on to the dash in order to apply the clutch. when i dropped of my clutch at the rebuilder i told him to rebuild to bus standards however it came back with bright red springs and very aggressive pads, shipped it back telling them to please read the work order. it came back with black springs as back to the rebuilder with in hand, after a good debate with a young know it all an old fellow came out of the rebuild area,looked at the parts, told the young fellow this setup is for HD gravel truck and not for a bus. he then took it into the shop and 2 hours later with the proper set up i was on my way. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1286 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 72.161.175.2 Rating: N/A |
Gomer, Be sure to let us know how this turns out. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1298 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.183.81 Rating: N/A |
I will and I am going to start on it this week. I hate getting dirty,but it better for me that paying big bucks for someone who don't know as much as I do LOL gomer | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1303 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.183.81 Rating: N/A |
Well I did it!! I disconnectet the clutch,checked the linkage, measurements.All was good there. Crawled under,checked pressure plate springs, they are a rusted blue looking and they are ok. checked the shaft and throw-out and the shaft was evidentually not greased in a GOOD while. Greased it all up and for some unknown reason it got a lot easier to push and now I can still sit in the seat and push it to da floor. It is amazing what grease and oil will do for something that is sticking.LOL On the road again! Gomer | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1305 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.183.81 Rating: N/A |
Since it was noted that a new reply was here ??? Read the previous post on my Clutch>>> Gomer | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1293 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.12.238 Rating: N/A |
There is supposed to be a long tube with a Zerk grease fitting on the side of the clutch housing for just this purpose. Check your lube diagram. Unfortunately these things usually plug up with old, hard grease and don't work anyway. There is also one underneath at the firewall that goes to your clutch and trans linkage bellcrank. That bellcrank gave me fits, had to replace both arms and all the pins and shackles. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1306 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.183.81 Rating: N/A |
Gus Found them all and the bellcrank one is a bear!! All fittings took the grease without a problem and after greasing the throw-out fitting, and getting all done I crawled under and after working the clutch more I found a small amount of grease on the shaft and I have always been amazed at the properties of grease/oil. It lubs and will aid at cutting with a drill in the hardest metal. AMAZING AIN"T IT?? Gomer | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1298 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.40.130 Rating: N/A |
Gomer, I found that my bellcrank lube tube did not grease the top arms of the bellcrank after I repaired it. Be sure to open the small inspection hatch right over the bellcrank and the mufflers sometime and take a good look at the condition of the arms. A couple of mine were worn so much they wouldn't have lasted much longer. It would ruin your whole day to suddenly lose clutch or shifting operation!! Even better is getting a good look at the tops of the mufflers and the pipes connecting to the exh manifold underneath the clamps where most holes first appear. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 626 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.13.120  Rating: N/A |
Gomer, My '04 has a rigid tube running from the bellcrank, straight down to the bottom of the bus with a zerk there. It's a pain to crawl to but it was designed to be done when the bus was over the pit having the brakes adjusted and everything checked. It's real easy that way. A clever bus rat could put an elbow at the bottom & a 1/4" hose over to the side with the grease fitting there but you really want to be under the bus from time to time. I found hoses chafing once or twice that if I never checked, would have left me VERY UNHAPPY by the side of the road. |
