| Author | Message | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.193) Rating: N/A |
Hello all Yes it is I, Cory D. Have'nt been around like I used to, my life has had some radical changes and time has just been completely tied up. With many of you taking to the road for trips and vacations, family and friends, Have a SAFE and Happy HOLIDAY. My company gave me a gift in November, THEY RETIRED ME AT 52 1/2 years old. LOL I am so happy to be away from those people and that awful place. Gives me more time to work on the bus, though, my brother may take ownership for various reasons, I will still be involved in design and help in the completion. Watch for him, he also has a lot of good ideas. My poor ole bus? (eyes roll up) well it is cold here now in North/East Illinois, The propane system was supposed to be done, but had connection fitting problems so, SPRING time job. Genset rack? Welder was late and cant paint in the cold, SPRING time job. LOLOL And the WALLS, well soon as I figure out what insulation to use, They're going up. Won't be long, so many ideas, so little time LOLOL. I have been searching for insulation. I am getting somewhat confused, maybe not. I thought fiberglas was so so and foam was good. I have now been learning about a product called PRODEX http://www.prodexsa.com/ this is a product about 1/4" thick of a fireproof, moisture proof POLYETHYLENE filling with a metalic reflective barrior on both sides. It is a reflective barrior and has a 97% reflective rating. Its ability to reflect heat out (or heat back in) is supposed to rival any ability of the other insulations available. (they use this product in planes cars boats buses down in Texas with good results. The product is installed with a minimum of 3/4" air gap toward the outside of the vehicle. ( It seems to be ok to apply directly on the outside wall as this is how vehicles are installed but they otherwise state the need for the air gap. Selling point is the ability to reflect 97% heat and that fiberglas leaks heat through, foam has leakage also. The way it works is different thinking, so I am looking for opinions, or maybe soneone who has used it, how do you like it???? Sold in rolls 4 1/2' x 125 foot costing "est" $60 or .30 cents a square foot. What is the consensus of this new technology and its application for the conversion. I have always felt my bus were being built on new and improved technology, is this one of the new technologies I should be banking on???? Again, Have a HAPPY and SAFE Holiday "Imangine Your Dreams" cd | ||
| jmaxwell (66.81.62.214) Rating: N/A |
I should preface this with the disclosure that I view most claims about insulation as grossly exaggerated. Good results down in Texas! Is that now the center of the Universe? What about W.Virginia or Wyoming? Do they venture an R factor rating; substantiated by independant lab testing? If it will work by surface contact in a car, why the separate recommendation of 3/4" clearance everywhere else? Fireproof Polyethlene? Now, that is NEW technology and somewhat miraculous to boot. If it works, and they can substantiate it, costs is certainly reasonable @ $.09+/sq.ft. Closer to the truth is the fact that 1" of any given material in a confined air space will yield just about the same value as anything else. The Eskimos use ice and snow! | ||
| ralph7 (208.148.72.131) Rating: N/A |
I called the company in IL that makes a 1/4in thick bubble with aluminum on both sidesan was told if aluminum contacts metal it is a conductor and the R-value goes to 1.5 from 4.0, but the more air space like 3/4in to 1 1/2in sends it to 7.0or more. Then I asked how they get a 4.0 or more rating on pole buildings and the answer they omit the aluminum on the side that faces the metal wall. Now I will use it on the inside of the Tough-R 3/4in. Aluminum side of tough-r faces inside of bus not against bus wall. ALSO COUNTER SINK all screws that connect to bus metal, an I put duck tape over holes they collect moisture. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.137)
Rating: N/A |
Cory...hope your life begins to straighten out a bit for you. Did I detect a bit of sarcasm in the retirement thing? Awfully young for such a change... Relative your concern about insulation. We had the same thing in mind through the process of early conversion and decided to take it one step at a time. We installed 1.25 inches of regular foiled foam ( available at your local building supply) then decided to place a layer of bubble aluminum foil over strategic locations in the coach. ie... ceiling over sleeping, driving and living areas. None in galley and bath areas simply because those were very early areas completed in order to put up bulkheads. With so much flammable material in the coach anyway,the foam,being underneath 1/2 inch of plywood and a 1/8 panel, doesn't bother us much. Have you ever seen a car burn? Doesn' make much difference what is used, seems to us. Remember the World Trade Center???. And the Titanic. No guarantees in life. We are in process of installing 3/32 cork sheet over the entire floor, wheel wells, and driving area. Less than $200 for the entire coach. May even have some left for bay use. It has really made a big difference in sound and feel of the coach. The coach is really well insulated to the "feel". But, Fast Fred has pointed out a number of times that it is all relative.....to the amount of glass. I can tell you he is spot on. Therefore, we have made roll up, insulated shades...muslin on the back side and heavy denim on the inside. They range from 42" to 72 " in width. These are "contained" within a "shadow box" frame. This should help with drafts, etc. We considered Warm Shades. which we have previously made and enjoyed, but felt they would be cumbersome in the coach. The shades roll up completely and only a bit of the pull trim show from the outside as well as the inside. Also, we are considering making a velcro attachment on each window, under the shade but directly to the window, should we decide to travel a bunch during really cold weather. If we do, it will be made of the bubble foil, similar to a sun screen for an automobile. We are from Colorado, living at 9450 feet at 25 below in a 5th wheel trailer several nights a week (we were in the real estate business and spent about 3 nights per week, year around, in high country). Moved to the sunny southwest several years ago. Third world, but love New Mexico  Windows definitely are a strong consideration. Insulate the coach well, have lots of windows, do nothing with them and you might as well forget the rest of it far as we are concerned....FWIW Do it YOUR way....and best wishes. RCB '64 Crown HWC | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Welcome back Cory. I have certainly missed your posts and the wisdom that you have imparted in the past. Will be glad to see the return of posts marked CDCDCDCDCDCDCD I remmeber how unhappy you were with the new management that took over your company and I have to believe that even a partial early retirement will be better than the unhappy situation you were in before. Best wishes and I sincerely hope you find something that will be a little easier on your nerves. Richard | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.168) Rating: N/A |
If this product can give the R value that they state, and they swear by the tests, yes, they were independant testing facilities, I think they are mentioned on the web site, I may go this direction, its the only thing I can fit in the ceiling anyway. My hope for the windows went two ways, one would be tripple cell blinds, they maintain an "r" value of around 3 or 4 I think. I have also thought about insulated pads to put over them, I agree, the storage for such a thing would be a consideration. Best if it can be built-in in place. Thanks for the thoughts considering my early retirement. As I am now getting used to the new life, I realize how much better off I am away from those crackers. I think any discussion about the manglement or the way things are carried out could be volumes so I will stop there. However your thoughts are appreciated. Sarcastic remark about the retirement? Well it was a shock at the time but I am really glad to be out of there for it was bad. Yes, it is a young age to retire even at the 33 1/2 years I had with the company but even now, I am pulling a comfortable retirement so any decision to work else where, or not, will be considered soon. My new schedule is tough now, goto bed late, get up after 12 o'clock noon. I think its all mind set actually. Just have to adjust a change in routine. Am I happy about it? Yes, I think so. Gee Richard, don't know If I'd call them "Posts Of Wisdom". I only try to help if I know something about the subject. I just thought I had helped someone along the rough trail of conversion. If I happen to know something that might help someone or if I think someone is doing something that could be dangerous in some way, I'll open my big mouth and try to "advise". I came to a determination about a year ago about how difficult this kind of project really is and I will help anyone in anyway to see them get through it. But thanks for the flowers, its good to hear something positive now and then about yourself. ( BLUSH ) Well I am kinda leaning toward this new technology insulation. Have to study it a little more I guess and make a decision. thanks for the thoughts on this subject. " Imagine Your Dreams " CD | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad) (206.251.199.194)
Rating: N/A |
Cory, Welcome back!! Jack Conrad | ||
| Randy4107 (24.161.66.61) Rating: N/A |
When we were insulating our coach I first painted all metal with thermal coat then fit in the foil backed bubble stuff, next was poly board, covered all screws and seams with duct tape then added another layer of foil backed bubble then finished with plywood, satisfied with results, but as stated the windows are a supstantial heat loss, cut to fit foil bubble for windows, big difference. Were in our coach freezing in N.Y. hopefully for only another week. Then its southwest or bust. Randy | ||
| jmaxwell (66.81.36.4) Rating: N/A |
Cory: Take your early retirement and run with it. I retired at age 31(over 29 yrs. ago)and have never looked back or regretted it for a moment. With a comfortable retirement income u have the options of pursuing, or not pursuing, a lifestyle that the average person your age can only dream of. | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.170)
Rating: N/A |
I have just taken a look at the Prodexsa site and read that it is not suitable for use with multilayers of insulation, once again this bubblewrap style needs its air gap. It is worthless if it is sandwiched between 2 surfaces. Many times they impress a 3/4" air gap is essentail for it to work. There are no heat test photos using those heat sensitive camers, just a bunch of writing saying how the R-value is not an accurate method of measuring insulation. No comparisons to other products either. One of the big motorhome manufacturers of truck conversions, I think it is Haulmark, but can't be sure, use it as their basic installation, but they offer a foam upgrade for more money. Haulmark do use the bubblewrap in their enclosed car haulers, but they have it touching the metal sides, which the Prodexsa warns against as it reduces its efficiency from R-4 to 1.5 (what happened to the R-14.5 they mention?). If this style of insulation was so cheap and efficient, then why isn't it being used everywhere? I am not convinced it is very effective, too much discrediting of other methods. I did use it to line wood a/c ducts on my motorhome as it was most suited for that sort of application. I am sticking to the R-7.2 per inch Super Tuff R which I bought from Lowes, which has better sound deadening qualities too. That's my way. Congrats upon your early retirement CD. You need a hobby, why not buy a bus.... (grin). Peter. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.36)
Rating: N/A |
"By jmaxwell (66.81.62.214) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 06:52 pm: Edit I should preface this with the disclosure that I view most claims about insulation as grossly exaggerated. Good results down in Texas! Is that now the center of the Universe?" Not only the center, but a good chuck of it also I think. Besides, we invented exaggeration. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.36)
Rating: N/A |
"By jmaxwell (66.81.62.214) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 06:52 pm: I should preface this with the disclosure that I view most claims about insulation as grossly exaggerated. Good results down in Texas! Is that now the center of the Universe?" Not only the center, but a good chuck of it also I think. Besides, we invented exaggeration. | ||
| Gary Carter (68.24.236.7) Rating: N/A |
There are multiple sources of heat. The bubble pack works on radiant heat only and is marginal at best against convection heat. The best insulator is a vacumn (thermos bottles) and next best is a gas (air) thus the 3/4" air barrier. The purpose of insulation is to trap air and keep it from moving and therefore an open air barrier would once again be marginal. The purpose of fiberglass and foam is to trap the air pockets. It's been a long time since physics class, but I think the second type is convection heat. But here is my fuzzy logic. Radiant heat does not heat the air but heats objects that it strikes. The sun is a souce of this radiant heat. When the radiant heat strikes and object it warms it up and then that object creates convection heat. Convection heat warms the air around it. An example is a hot air furnace. Following this fuzzy logic it appears the placing this material inside defeats it purpose and the sun striking the outside heats the siding thus creating convection heat. It appears that this material is for radiant heat sources per their ads and website. People in AZ use this stuff to cover the inside of their windows. Reflects the suns radiant heat back outside, thus doing what it was designed for. |