| Author | Message | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
I am curious as to why wannabee bus owners would take the time to answer an ad for a bus that is for sale only to hang up the phone when they are told the "asking" price? They already know it is fully converted and all new but when you give them the LOW LOW price, it almost sounds as though you insulted them. Do people really think they can buy a fully converted bus for less than 45K$ or what? It must be that they obviously don't know how much money actually goes into doing one of these. 45K$ is a good price for a good running shell let alone a fully converted bus. If people think they can obtain a fully converted bus for less than more power to them but I got news for you. You won't be getting too much for your money! I looked a a 80 model 05 today with a home conversion that smelled really musty as I entered which told me it was a leaker to begin with. It had bunks made from 2x4's, front and rear lounge's that had all the electronics removed for whatever reason, no fridge or stove of any kind, no bath, no showerm no tanks, but it DID have a 8.5kw gen set with central H/A, rusty simulators, may pop tires and a front cap that was seperating from the main frame. A 318 DD with stick that has NEVER been re-built. A Stock dash and gauges, and used carpeting just kind of laying on the floor... all for the low low firm price of 50K$ So a word of advice to all those tire kickers out there looking to steal their dream coach. "You get what you pay for" and when you call up to get a price, before you hang up, think about what you MIGHT be getting because if it doesn't sound like a give-away price, you just might be getting a LOT for your money! Venting complete!!!  | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
This should be interesting, most of the time, when I make reference to a 2X4 and Plywood conversion, I get a "What's wrong with that?" message. I think the answer to your question is that the SERIOUS converters are not calling you. Personally, I am not doing my conversion on a shoestring, I am using the best materials I can lay my hands on. I CAN afford to buy a factory made premium coach, Monaco, etc... but that's not what I want. I like to make my own stuff, and ensure the quality of what's gone inside. Another thing is--Your finely fitted coach is not representative of the norm, I think. Most conversions that are for sale, are like the 2X4 construction leaker that you mentioned. This dovetails nicely into why it's hard to get replacement value insurance and why the KOA's and their ilk don't want our money. Once again, I think if there were a converters society, self governed, that had "Surveys" just like the boating world, you could easily establish real value and differentiate between the serious conversions and the slap-together jobs. Again, you may have the finest conversion in the universe, but for my self, as a "converter" I wouldn't be interested. So then, what is left, what kind of folks want to by someone else's conversion? Stuff to ponder. Gary | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
so was $1500 too much for the "man show"????/,.... salvage parts are 3 roof airs... good frige, microwave..12 kw gas genset.....6-71...lotsa aluminum...and a really neat lookin sign.... | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Sounds like you scored-- Are you scrappiin' Da man show bus? gary | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
nope... just tryimg to get it moved to houston... and not having any luck... | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Oh, cool. I think those older units, updated, but with classic "Yacht" interiors would be just cool as can be. Gary | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
right now the problem is trying to get it insured.... progresive has my motorhome... and i'm mailing pics to the agent... | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Progressive insured mine (Liability only) with no problems. When I want to increase the level of coverage, things will get interesting. Gary | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (65.73.229.170)
Rating: N/A |
Progressive direct will often not insure conversions. But they will through an agent such as RVAA who are fully conversant with conversions. If you have trouble going direct give RVAA a call, they did mine and did it well. Peter. | ||
| jmaxwell (66.81.32.241) Rating: N/A |
Ace: I could really understand your getting upset had the price been listed and the guy took up your time and then hung-up. However, if your asking wasn't known to him, he certainly has no way of knowing without calling you. I believe that most people that have no experience with conversions are probably in the dark as to what is invested. I'm doing my 2nd one, and people that witnessed me building the 1st one even express dismay at the amount of time, effort, and dollars I'm putting into this one. Another huge factor: given the current state of the economy in this country, a whole lot of people simply don't have 45k nor do they even think in the realm of 45k, however much of a pittance some people may regard it as. That's the reality of the average person in this country. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (64.105.16.247)
Rating: N/A |
"That's the reality of the average person in this country. And we definitely ain't average! ;) I remember reading in one of the canonical conversion books that the shell to improvement ratio should be about 50/50, discounting your labor to zero. The author cautioned about spending more than 50% on improvements because you won't get your money back, unless it's a professional conversion. Based on that Ace, sounds like you're well in the sweet range. What surprises me are MC7's and the like asking $100K. And RVAA thru Progressive, Yup. Painless. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Mine says Progressive Direct, right on the Policy. I told them it was a shell, that I was converting, that I had a shop and was a Professional converter, which is arguably true. I think if you are going to do conversions, at resale time, you'll be lucky to get the cost of materials back. There's a problem with the Economy? Gary | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.37)
Rating: N/A |
I have sold three bus conversions in the last couple years, and have learned lots from it. The most amazing of all to me was that the majority of shoppers had no comprehension even what a bus conversion was, often even after being told! I found it saved me lots of time to simply be very upfront about it all, price, YEAR, make and then configurarion and condition. Only then would we start talking. A great many were just after design ideas, and felt they had to pose as interested potential buyers. The final blow AFTER you had eliminated all the above time wasters, was the usual "I definitely want it badly, I will go check with my banker in the morning and see if he will loan me that much on it". I had seriously thought of making a requirement to see thier checkbook FIRST before even discussing it. In all cases, the REAL buyer made a quick few questions, and wrote a check. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Say Don, How did you come out on the deal? Did you turn a "Profit"? Enquiring minds..... Gary | ||
| Darryl (68.184.119.198) Rating: N/A |
Ace, you might consider putting your price in the ad. Personally, this is what I like to see when shopping for a car. It's been my experience in car shopping that most (not all!) of the ads without a price seemed over priced when compared to simular like and kind vehicles. Because of this, I rarely call on a vehicle that is not priced before hand. It's really just a matter of personal preferance. You're right about all the tire kickers, especially bus tire kickers. Some of the real new "newbys" (for some reason it seems the Gospel groups are prime canidates) have no idea that these vehicles bring as much as they do. I believe they think that the conversion can be had for a couple thousand more than the seated coach of that vintage. Not to pick on gospel groups, but alot of their conversions I've seen only cost a couple of thousand. They often buy a seated coach and do their 2X4 plywood conversion quick as they are really anxious to get on the road. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.29)
Rating: N/A |
Well Gary, I would say I broke even, and was lucky (on my own bus). I had a much different ratio than most ideals that are "recommended" by some so called experts. I used a low cost (GMC 4905) shell, and then put into it over four times what I paid for the shell, and came out OK. I tend to see people trying to work it in reverse, and thinking wow, if I put 50k into a shell, then I will have a conversion that will sell for 100k regardless of what I do. I have not seen the ratio to be meaningful at all. I found very little concern among buyers for the make or model of shell when selling, length and if it was automatic were big points, and of course the comfort and beauty of the interior was the real points it seemed that made the difference. The hardest to sell was a GMC 4106, good runner, automatic, Alcoas, new tires, skinned with high quality windows, attractive imron paint, done to plywood box on the interior, would be a quick and simple bolt in to completion. No interest, finally gave it away for less than 5k. | ||
| bobm (68.35.160.19) Rating: N/A |
In case you are from another planet this is not, I repeat not, a money making hobby. Ask my wife. My bus is a money pit but it ain't for sale. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
Well Don, your experiences are about what I would expect, on average. Funny--There was just one wild-eyed local guy just showed up around the front of my bus asking all kinds of questions. Had some wild idea about converting retired AC Transit (East Bay Area CA). into high-dollar coach. This guy is, of course--from another planet. Gary | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.247.135) Rating: N/A |
Actually, unless they've done a lot of homework, the whole idea of a civilian appraising any coach is pretty ridiculous. As it was pointed out, they have absolutely no clue. I think they hear the year of the bus and equate it to the value of a motorhome of the same year And I swear, I am amazed when I ask people how much they think my coach cost when new, no one has come close yet. Brian | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
"And I swear, I am amazed when I ask people how much they think my coach cost when new, no one has come close yet." Which "New"? New as off the assembly line? New as when freshly converted? New as in what they'd pay for a similarly appointed Prevost, etc..? Just wondering... Gary | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
Just to clarify a point or two, we had our bus listed on e-bay for 2 different occasions. Has only a couple of bids but nowhere close to the reserve we had set. We DID have many phone calls on it though asking what exactly it would take to own it. I kindly told them and the usuall reply was "I'll get back to you"! Since then, I have posted all the info on a couple of different sites along WITH pricing and location! It still seems there are buyers who are just tinkering with the idea of becoming a wannabee! Rude ones at that! | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.247.135) Rating: N/A |
New, as in straight off the assembly line as a seated coach Gary... What it cost in 1984 dollars. For some reason most people don't blink twice when told that some of these purpose built rolling palaces cost over a million dollars to buy new. But haven't the slightest idea what seated coaches cost. Brian | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.4)
Rating: N/A |
OK, that's what I thought you were saying. Allright, I'll bite. $125 - 175K? Am I close? Gary | ||
| Phil Dumpster (12.230.214.167) Rating: N/A |
Go a bit higher... ;) A transit bus with wheelchair lift (such as an RTS) was around $185K-$210K in 1985. Give or take which options and whether it was part of a very large fleet order. When you buy 400 busses, you tend to get a bigger price break than when you buy 10. A 40 foot Gillig Phantom will set you back around $350K today, again give or take. The 60' New Flyer hybrid artics Seattle is buying for delivery the middle of next year are $750K EACH in quantity 250+. | ||
| FAST FRED (65.154.176.245) Rating: N/A |
In the "old days" the rule that half the coach conversion should be the shell , and half the interior made sense when shells were $20,000 to $100,000. Today with tons of really cheap coaches MC 9's under 10K it cant be done. The conversion will take at least 20K regardless of the shell its installed into, and of course the ability to blow 100K is still avilable. To sell a coach the easiest would probably be to create a video , listing the conversion goals , and the methods and systems chosen to achieve the goal. Sure "Paint Sells the Boat", is just as true on coaches , and a great interior may move a coach, to a novice. The biggest downside to selling a coach is the ONLY way any chance of getting a fair return is to sell a completely finished unit. No "almost done ",as that reduces the market by 75% and the price accordingly. There are lots of wannabees that KNOW they have limited skills , so unfinished is the Kiss of Death to pricing. A knowledgable purchaser will be looking for maint documentation (BILLS NOT STORIES) , a complete schematic of the house AC and DC systems , plumbing schematics , and hopefully photos of anything burried in the walls. The smart fellow will realize HE has to fix everything , eventually! Really good (not necessarily fancy) coaches sell for fair prices , unfinished, undocumented projects are only a bit over scrap value. The purchaser has to be able to see himself comfortably living in the spaces presented , and the bride needs to be happy with the galley setup. Good Luck, FAST FRED | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.33)
Rating: N/A |
Hum, I thought a 40' RTS with lift went for 275-300,000 dollars back in the eighties, but that was lowered by federal subsidies. Anyway, I just took an offer on my mother's house and I dealt with the same "lookie-lews" for the past 6 months as Ace is having selling his bus. A lot of people just like to look, and a lot of people don't have the money to buy. You just have to treat everybody nice and don't be in a hurry to sell. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.12)
Rating: N/A |
I had a chance to evaluate different sources of advertising in my sales exercises. Here is my take on that. I found the very best return for the dollar was from the www.traderonline.com site, RV section of course. I think the really serious are looking there first, at least it seemed to me to be so. The least effective seemed to be the MAK board, Tom Hall's site, etc. The newspaper seems worthless. The wannabe is who reads bus boards, and he already has a bus or is looking for a shell to convert I think, but he often tells a friend who wants a bus too. He will bug you to death for detailed photos to help him complete his. Although I love Ebay and sold a bus on EBay, I would not recommend it for the converted one, just not the right media for such a purchase it seems. Despite this blitz, two of the three sold from passers by on my busy highway residence location. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.247.135) Rating: N/A |
From the info I have, my 96A3 with the optional factory galley installed was a little over 300,000 in 1984. | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Don, did you by chance try the FMCA magazine? That has been my bible for years in looking at conversions for sale and trying to determine value and asking prices. I just ignore the ads without asking prices. Richard | ||
| jmaxwell (66.81.33.253) Rating: N/A |
Anyone who pd. 300K for a 96A3 in 1984 must have just fallen off a pumpkin truck. I've seen the paperwork direct from MCI on a '96 DL shell, custom windows, upgraded Aqua-Hot system installed, built to individual buyers' specs----$310K, FOB Illinois, 1996. I personally priced a new 1999 40'Van Hool shell in 2000 with 7 custom windows, delivered to me as an individual, $267k. From the best figures I could gather, my 1981 Grumman 870, "freeway flyer", fully factory equipped, cost Santa Clara County, CA and the Fed. government $132k in an order lot of 1000 units, 150 of which went to various Bay area transit authorities over a 3 yr. period. It's anybody's guess as to how much payola and graft went on top of that "off the books". | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.247.135) Rating: N/A |
I agree with Don, ebay is a great tool, but for some strange reason, certain items get far below what one would consider to be fair market value, like say converted coaches, (and seated coaches for that matter) while other items... say a 25 cent garage sale item, cleaned up and painted pink, might bring in $125! Brian | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman) (162.42.168.224)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Ace, as a new owner of a previously converted bus let me give some insights on how i ended up buying what i did. First off we lived in a 33 ft. travel trailer in the seattle area for 2 1/2 years so we knew what we liked or disliked as far as interior layout. We have been living in Az. for the last 2 1/2 years and have been talking about a motorhome for retiring in and have been looking all over the internet at everything for sale. Had found a really nice 59 gm bus conversion on ebay over a year ago but had no money at that time so could do nothing. Had also decided that if i could not find a decent bus that i would buy a Barth motorhome (more like a bus than a plastic palace, go to Barthmobile.com to check them out if you are unfamiliar with them). As it turned out, in Sept. i finally received some downpayment money from a piece of property that i had sold, with the balance to come this spring. Now at this time i had not really planned to buy anything but i was really looking hard at everything for sale, Barths and buses, trying to find what would fit our needs and wants. To make a long story a little shorter, i came across this bus on ebay and looked at it for several days before i showed it to my wife and asked what she thought. Now it wasn't perfect but i figured that maybe we could change a few of the things that we didn't care for. We thought about it for a few days, emailed the seller and asked a bunch of questions about things not covered in the ad and got some more pictures of it. Now we have bought off of ebay before but this was a VERY large purchase for us and we were a little nervous about it to say the least. It wasn't like we could just run down the street and take a look at it and kick the tires any time we wanted to, this thing was 1100 miles away and was going to cost us time, ( which we didn't have because the auction only had one day left ) and money which was also limited. So after careful consideration and calling and asking a few more questions we decided what the most was that we could bid on it. Well as luck and circumstance would have it we got it for less than our maximum amount. Flew over to inspect it and pick it up and was very pleased, it was all that it looked like and more. Got it home and had a few questions about some things and the dealer i bought it from put me in contact with the previous owner,( he did the conversion 20 years ago) One of the things i asked him was how come he had traded in on a newer motor home instead of selling it himself, i said that i would of thought that he would of had a waiting list of people that would want to buy it. He said that he did but when it came time to sell nobody had the $39,000 that he wanted for it. The more we talked and the more he told me of the things that he had done to it the more i realized how good a deal i got.(Even tho i found out that the bus has between 2 1/2 and 3 million miles on it!!!) That has only been confirmed since i got home and have been comparing it to what i see for sale in that price range. Now Ace i haven't looked at your bus so i can't comment on it at this time but if i had had the money i would have bought that 59 GM i mentioned earlier, i would have had to pay $59,000 for it and after talking to that guy and looking at the pictures i think it would have been worth every penny. I am very happy with what i got plus i saved some money too so sometimes a guy lucks out. Is it a buyers market?....sometimes is is, sometimes it's a sellers market. I once sold a 68 roadrunner for $400 and a friend of mine sold a 65 corvette convertible for $900 at the same time... gas crunch of 73-74, we couldn't hardly give those cars away.....i guess we did really in the end...but at the time we were glad to get what we did for them. Looking back now i wish we had just stuck them in a barn and left them for 20 or 30 years but who knew? I have seen some buses/rvs for sale 3 or 4 times with no interest/bids at all and then a few months later they are listed again and get a dozen bids right off the bat. Just a question of the right people seeing it and having the money at the right time. I have an 81 chevy 1 ton van in good shape with new tires ($400) and a $500 hitch on it that i am asking $2500 for and in the last 2 months not one call on it. I only have a few ads on store bulletin boards, and this is a sparsely populated area so i am not expecting much and will probaly have to take it elsewhere to sell it but i know that somewhere out there is someone who is probably looking for it... i just need to find them, and so do you, just don't get discouraged. BTW the reason i bought a conversion instead of a shell and doing it "my way" ala Fast Fred and many of the rest of you, is that i don't have the room, the tools and some of the talents, and the biggest, the time. My wife has had, and still has, some serious medical problems and since there are no guaranties in this life as to how much time any of us has and we have things that we want to do and see while we still can, this was the best choice for us. I have already benefited greatly from reading the different boards and learning of the problems and solutions that others have encountered, and for that i am very grateful and would like to say thank you to all for the wisdom, the humor, the opinions and even the differences that have been expressed. If there was only one way life would be boring. So Ace, somewhere out there is somebody that your bus will be perfect for...lets just hope he has the money now!! Good luck! ED P.S. i think that if you want to see what i got it will still be on ebay for a couple of more days...item # 2433157665...the motor only has 15,000 miles on a rebuild and the tranny has 150,000 miles on it. | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.247.135) Rating: N/A |
Jmax, you could be right, I don't have any hard evidence. Every time I have tried to find out what the actual numbers were on my coach and the original owner, I get a run around, I've probably placed a dozen phone calls all with the same result. The only information I have is from a guy who knows a guy... that type of thing. Anyone who KNOWS who I can call for reliable info or where I can look online, please let me know. With that in mind, I read somewhere that MC-9's of that era were north of 200k, if that's true I would have to believe the 96A3 was a step up in price. Brian | ||
| Phil (204.89.170.126) Rating: N/A |
Ed, looks like a nice conversion. Best of luck with it. | ||
| jmaxwell (66.81.46.80) Rating: N/A |
Brian: You're right, for the most part it is very difficult to nail down original paperwork on our buses. I got lucky when the SC transit people came up with the records on my bus (I bought it directly from them through a buyer that was registered with them, for which he collected a handsome commission from me). Nevertheless, the paperwork even included memo's and bulletins from US Dept of Transportation touting the sale of these things through the transit subsidy program on them. I'm sure that it was not intended to have been included in the paperwork. Even got the itemized expense re-imbursement statements of the two guys that drove it from Ohio to CA when it came off the assembly line. Let me tell you, transit authority delivery drivers eat good! And, they don't drive too long in a day either; 12 days, 2 drivers from Ohio to San Jose. Needles to say, they didn't stay at Motel 6 each night either. Just part of the "off the book" costs. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.69)
Rating: N/A |
Richard, I must admit I did NOT even consider or try FMCA, even though I was a member. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (12.231.173.242)
Rating: N/A |
I think Monaco/Country Coach was paying like $125K for unconverted shells, that's probably why I had that number in my head. That was a few years back though. Quite a difference between that and $300K Gary | ||
| jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60) Rating: N/A |
there's a convertor... west of san antonio... right off i-10 west at boerne..... does entertainer coaches.... prevosts... series 60, allison auto... $350k for a shell, custom paint from the factory.... | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.247.135) Rating: N/A |
I read somewhere recently that the city of San Diego bought 4 new coaches from MCI and negotiated a price of 475k each... And I seem to remember that someone here mentioned in a thread a couple of months ago that Greyhound bought a bunch of MC-12's for 235k each. Brian | ||
| Terry Mac (67.233.187.154)
Rating: N/A |
Well I have to admit I am a newbie.I think bus converters are like everyone else some have money some dont some have a lot of skills some dont but it really doesnt matter what type of coach you have as long as you are happy with it and it suits your needs who cares Happy Busing Terry | ||
| mark (66.43.13.67) Rating: N/A |
One of MY pet peevs is when looking at an ad, the seller doesn't list the price - as if it is an unimportant detail. I have found that MOST of the time, when the price is not listed with the ad, the seller wants too much money for the vehicle that he's trying to sell. The seller usually knows that his price is too high, but he figures that he will be able to convince a potential buyer to make the purchase. FAT CHANCE! Most people have a certain budget or dollar amount that they have to work with. If the asking price would have been listed, you would have screened the calls from people that couldn't afford your bus. Don't be ashamed of your asking price!! Put it out there prominently for any and all onlookers! There are alot of potential buyers out there, Ace. Think about the ones that think they will have to spend MORE than what you're asking! Not listing the price always LOOKS like the seller is shooting for the moon! Now, maybe that's not what you're doing, but please, try listing the price... it IS an important part of the purchase process!! thanks! mark 75 gillig636D | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
Well said Mark. You sure do not see many used car lots that do not prominently display the sale price. They are proud of their cars and the low price. Ace and any others selling their coach should feel the same. Ace's bus (in my opinion)is really worth more than he is asking for it to the right buyer and some would feel that they are getting a bargain. But they have to know where the price is. To me, it is downright "dumb" to not list an asking price Sorry Ace, I do not want to start a pi**ing contest, but that is my honest feeling. Good bad or indifferent. Richard | ||
| Ace (24.28.41.194) Rating: N/A |
GUYS, maybe you missed my post that the price WAS and IS listed as has been all along! Thanks for the replies! Ace |