| Author |
Message |
MCJ (Mjcruisin) (64.136.27.228)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:11 pm: | |
Got our bus last winter. We took it out for 3 months (Aug - Oct) We took a lot of boxes, a porta potty and an airbed. After a few configurations, we figured out where we want stuff. We are getting the engine in tip top shape right now.
I'm looking at an empty bus. Clear plastic on the ceiling, keeping the old insulation from raining down on our heads. The floors are not great, the wiring shot.
I was a finish carpenter, but have a bad back, but the wife is an great carpenter, follows directions well(when she thinks I'm right) and the son has a strong back. So I'm thinking, strip it to the metal.
Any suggestions where to start. What to avoid. What to get. Where to buy(we're in East Texas a couple of hour due east of Dallas. Difficulty and time consumption isn't a great issue, cost is kinda an issue.
Michael |
MCJ (Mjcruisin) (64.136.27.228)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:21 pm: | |
Forgot to add, the old heating and air are gone. It has a couple of roof air units that are fritzy. Someone also painted the top black--to the bottom of the windows. Summer was interesting at best. We normally dry camp, but we had to stop where the electricity lived and pray the air conditioners were in a good mood. Painting it is a given. We will often be in as primitive a location as the bus can get without getting stuck.
Michael |
John Feld (Deacon) (150.199.209.34)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:14 am: | |
MY opinion, start with haveing on hand both a maintance manual and a parts book.
Make a diagrame of the location of each wire as you remove them, note where they are connected, a simple sketch of the walls will do.
Get rid of the old insulation, for two reasons, one; you will be able to inspect all metal parts for rust and crackes, two; much better insulation is available today than the old stuff. Remove any bad flooring and replace it, this can be a big job.
If you remove the floor over the axle area inspect the frame supports and repair if needed before installing the floor again, its much eaiser that way.
Now is the time to make sure you have a solid coach to build in, don't wait until you have installed walls and cabinets. If your in doubt about something with the frame and structure, call Luke at US Coach.
Once you have a shoebox that is solid, do it your way.
John 4104 & 4106 |
TomNPat (68.137.169.128)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 2:08 am: | |
Listen to John! Especially when it comes to talking to Luke since the floor could be a problem and Luke has posted here that it is a "structural component" of your bus.
I don't have a GM coach, but it seems that the floor is mucho importante unlike our MCI. Calling him will be doing yourself and your family a favor.
As far as the rest of your questions, read all the boards, books and magazines you can. Then you'll develop some ability to ascertain which opinions are valid, what options are available, and how they fit your pocketbook. We always think about needs, wants, and wishes. We get the 'needs', many of the wants, and, eventually, some of our wishes. Hope you get all your wishes!
TomNPat |
David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (64.158.7.93)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 10:19 am: | |
I recommend building in the ability to upgrade certain things. You can put in "get-by" appliances if you remember to leave enough space to replace with a future appliance. Ditto plumbing. You might not put in a Washer/dryer or dishwasher now but you might want one in the future. Plumbing/wiring for it while under construction will be a lot easier that doing it later. How about wiring? I'm not talking about electrical (well, partly). TV in the rear bedroom? Computer/home office for your bus? You BOTH need to write down (on seperate lists) what you think you need right now (minimums), what you want and then your wish list for future. Then compare lists and discuss the items on them. It is easier to buy that pricey "thingy" if you wait a bit to get it rather than piling it on top of all the other things that you must have now just to make your bus livable. |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:28 am: | |
You have a 50 year old bus that needs an engine, needs electrical work, has two roof A/C's that barely work, has no interior and you have a bad back?
If I were you I wouldn't put any money into the bus but buy one that just needs some upgrading. You'll save yourself a lot of money and time.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
jmaxwell (66.81.209.219)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 2:04 pm: | |
In defense of Luke's time, I have to question the wisdom of people that so casually refer every major problem with an old wore-out GM that pops up here to Luke for an answer. My impression is that while Luke gives very freely and graciously of his time and knowledge here, he is in business to make some money and a decent living. His time and vast knowledge is worth money to him and this wholesale discounting of it on this and other boards is just not fair to him.
In agreement w/Geoff, If this 4104 is in the "crusher" condition that is described, and the owner being admittedly in no physical condition to undertake such a major re-building, he would be better off to spend what resources he has on something more worthwhile. Sorry if this offends anyone's sensibilities but there comes a point when everyone need to face reality, and this owner is eyeball to eyeball with it. |
John Rigby (24.174.233.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 5:10 pm: | |
Micheal
Don,t be put of by these guys with fancy rigs and all that money.
Your onto the right idea get the engine running right.
Then get all the wiring in before its hard to run.
I left the old insulation in the celing of my 04, but it also had the formica attached below it.
I used fiberglass bat insulation coverd with plywood for the walls. Then carpet glued over it.You can purchase remmunts of carpet and tile cheap if you find the right store.Have the air conditioners checked out, but clean the condencers by flushing with water first.
Go and read Fast Fred,s old posts he does everything comfortuble but inexpensively.
Also Luke is always there if you have a mechanical problem, He always enjoys helping bus nuts like ourselves.
Sounds like you have plenty of help with your wife and son, so look after that back and enjoy your 04 e-mail me as some times I am up in the tyler/Longview area.
John Orange TX johns4104s@yahoo.com |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 6:05 pm: | |
i agree with geoff..... i just bought a 49 yr old 5105.... i think im gonna change its name from "the man show" to "the money pit".... seems like every time i get something repaired enough to use, something else leaks... i bought it cheap enough... basically at salvage value for the components... and i'm 45 and healthy.... i recommend finding a coach in better shape and maybe updating the interior... it'll be money better spent.... |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 6:26 pm: | |
Depends on what you want I suppose.
I bought a ratty bluebird transit...with a new drivetrain, all the way out to the tires. Everything else is getting rebuilt. Everything that goes in will be first cabin.
Others are perfectly happy with 2X4s, Plywood and Carpeting.
To each his own I guess...
Gary |
John Rigby (24.174.233.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 6:26 pm: | |
Jim
The old 4104 is hard to beat, most buses ,espesially the more up to date ones engine access is limited, everthing on the 4104 engine and transmission is very accessable,Yes if someone has 18k to 20k to spend on a completed older conversion, then that would be the way to go.But when I did mine I did it A little at a time, and I probably will never be finished.
I would also throw in that the two largest on the road breakdowns I have experience in the past 17years A) Cyclinder head problem in LA and
B) Fan through radiator, Lousiana.
Had it been a 40. ft MCI or Eagle then I know I would not have been able to handle the myself. which I was able to.
John |
jim mci-9 (209.240.205.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 7:03 pm: | |
my only compaint about the repairing necesary on MY 5105 is that there is no place to quit..... i am in good health, have the necessary funds, have time.. etc... but when i'm thru. i'll still have a 1954 5105.... granted, its bigger than the holiday rambler mh i'm presently in, but i'll never get enough repairs done to tour the good 'ol usa....it will serve my purpose as a mobile home base to work full-time out of.... and thats my intention.... i do plan on building my mci-9... but now thats been put on hold...i will make the "9" very road-worthy.. capable of touring... by buying the 5105, i solved my immediate living situation..... |
TWO DOGS (65.179.201.225)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 7:10 pm: | |
the way I did mine....first thing was the blackwater tank..then all drain lines need to run downhill to the blackwater tank...next...water lines,they can go anywhere ..all my 'stuff' is in the rear bay...freshwater,blackwater,pump for freshwater,propane tank,water heater,water filter,elec. cord for PP....soo...I'd say PLUMBING FIRST |
jmaxwell (66.81.43.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 7:34 pm: | |
At least Jim recognizes the limitations of his 5105 and the fact that it does not now or probably ever will serve the purpose of his ultimate intentions. Recognizing that, it appears that he is going to limit the amount of his money resources that he throws into it. A wise decision!
Different people have different purposes, and certainly that has to figure into it. My purpose of having a bus is travel and a comfortable and RELIABLE means by which to do it. I also don't want to work on it 6 months so I can travel in it for 3. Not a good exchange of value from my standpoint. If one's purpose is to have something that will get them to their favorite camping spot a couple of hundred miles away, 5-6 times a year, then I would argue that they are better served with a gas puller MH, which are much cheaper and a whole hell of lot less in need of maintenance and high dollar repairs. |
Tony (64.215.196.144)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 7:38 pm: | |
Mister Jmaxwell
I try not to get In on any of these discussions
but for the simple reason that It makes me mad to see someone talk down on someone that Is trying to help himself, but If Luke did not enjoy the time he spends on this board and helping people I don't guess that he would be on here, furthermore I have a MCI-7 and a Eagle 10 but If there Is any parts that I need for the MCI-7 I will definitely call Luke first because he Is on these boards and second because he enjoys It, not to mention the knowledge that he has about these buses, and for the few Eagle parts that he has I will not hastate to holler at him for those either, and I personally don't think that you should be talking down on this guy for trying to get a bus Instead of a whatever ( motorhome ) I believe this Is the best move that he has ever made, maybe he just don't have the money or resources to buy the coach that you think that he should have, ( why don't you buy It for him ) I personally think that the 04 Is the best coach that GM ever built, and I am sure that I am not the only one that thinks like this everyone Is just like I am and don't want to ruffle any feathers, why don't you ask the people that have an 04, but you are definitely right on one thing you have got under my skin. and that Is the reality that you so readily talk about. and If Luke wants to defend his time and he wants to he will do so without your help.
Tony |
MCJ (Mjcruisin) (64.136.27.228)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 9:44 pm: | |
Thanks for input. We will be driving it a lot and eventually living in it full time, so we want to do it right. I am disabled and my wife is a jeweler that makes Celtic Jewelry. We spend six months in the Pacific Northwest spending the weekend at Scottish Highland games and Renaissance Faires as vendors and the weekdays in the wilderness. The other six months (the cold part) we spend at home in Texas and travel each weekend to the Faires. So even now we spend more time in the bus than not.
It is better than it sounds. The body is straight, the windows good, frame and body sound. It ran wonderful during our trial 3 months, till we dropped two injectors. I feel it is worth the time and money. I'm just confused on where to start. And wanted to be sure not to make a big mistake--Like taking down the ceiling panels, when I got it. I know that in replacing the floor that you have to replace every bolt where it came from. If I didn't know that I could screw it up. I'm worried about the things that I don't know, looming to bite me.
Michael |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.145.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 9:49 pm: | |
Jmax, Luke certainly is a valuable asset for us here on this board, and I agree his time is very valuable.
I believe however, that the good will Luke has engendered here has also meant an increase in his bottom line.
I couldn't tell you how many times here that Luke at US Coach is mentioned as the person/place to find a part.
Tony, I understand what you were getting at, but while Jmax is pretty outspoken, he isn't usually a bad guy, and he does make some valid points, even if he wasn't aware of how Jim was going to make use of him GM coach.
Trying to snuff out someone's dream isn't very cool...(being a pragmatist sometimes ruffles feathers), but Jmax is aware that Jim also has an MC-9 he wants to convert, so I don't think that was the intention.
Brian |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.145.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 9:54 pm: | |
Ooops, I misread who started this thread! Jmax, how dare you try to snuff out someone's dream! (grin)
Brian |
MCJ (Mjcruisin) (64.136.27.228)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 10:45 pm: | |
Don't worry, my dreams are unsnuffable. I had this bus on the road for three months and it is great-except for the work needing to be done. I have a background in carpentry and mechanics and what I can't do, I can explain well enough for my son or wife. I am having the mechanics done, due to the back, but the inside I think we can handle. My wife is pretty capable-before we got married, she, having no knowledge or interest in cars, rewired a Subaru, bypassing the harness(which was burned up) at 3 in the morning on a desolate road with a tiny flashlight, a roll of wire and a bottle of fingernail polish(mark the wires)using a service manual she found in the back. She follows directions well. She says she'll tackle the wiring as long as she gets to use colorful wires(purple and teal, ect.) I have a friend whose an electrician who'll check it out.
All in all, I am awfully stubborn and I love my bus.
I just don't want to do something to later find out it was wrong or unfixable. |
Phil Pellowski (Viater) (67.30.105.110)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 2:33 am: | |
MJC, I bought my bus already converted by a fairly skilled home converter. After fulltiming for almost 2 years I have come to the conclusion that my bus has some shortcomings. Here's some of the issues that I think about changing:
Two dogs pointed out to start with the plumbing. Put A LOT of thought in your layout! My bus has all of my tanks in the rear bay. Not a bad location however, the propane tank is also in there. Now, I can't seal up the rear bay to prevent the tanks and water lines from freezing because the propane tank needs venting. Also some of the water lines are run through the bays. If they were run inside I would have less concern about them freezing. Also consider access to your electrics and plumbing in the event you have to perform repairs.
An installed propane tank means you have to take your bus to the propane shop to fill-up. Portable tanks mean you throw the tanks in the toad and schlep them to the store while you're on a beer run.
With vents stuck haphazerdly throughout the roof you don't have continual space to rack mount your solar panels
I suppose a place to start is figureing out whether you want a 2-3 or 4 season bus. Then, talk to bus converters to see what they would do differently. Come up with a plan and start accumulating the parts you'll need.
Good luck chasing your dream.
Phil GM PD4106 1726 |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.40.145.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 9:13 am: | |
Michael... as a diesel mechanic with nearly a quarter century of experience, I am, quite frankly, astounded by the story of the bypassed wiring harness. I think that accomplishment, with scant knowledge, minimal resources, and under those circumstances... boarders on being legendary.
Please tell your wife I said ..."most impressive".
Brian |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.99.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 2:37 pm: | |
I have to add my note of admiiration to Brian's.
When I turned a wrench for a living, I was the "Electrics Guy" in any shop I worked in.
"Bypassing" wiring, in a Japanese car is no mean feat.
Gary |
Michael & Cydny (Mjcruisin) (64.136.26.228)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 3:03 pm: | |
I think that if she had known what she was up against, she would have never done it. She has no idea about the difficulty of the bus. She told me she had a half inch book before and now the has 2 two inch books and shrugs. Just get her colored wire to inspire her. She's like that, I have many stories of her "outside the box thinking". Some of them are far enough back I can tell them without shuddering.
We do have a guy that if we'll do all the drudge work, will come over and check stuff out. |
Jim Wilke (12.46.52.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 4:32 pm: | |
The 4104 is a great bus, no doubt. Way overbuilt & everything designed for simplicity, reliability & serviceability. It has great classic looks. If you really like the bus then do it. No matter what you build, you'll never get your money back so do what pleases you.
I own a 4104, a 4905 & an Eagle and the '04 is better built than the others. The only drawback to the 4104 is less power than the newer coaches. But, it gets 10 MPG which the others don't get close to.
If you are stripping it to the skin, make sure you fix any skin problems while you are at this stage. Any rust on the panel under the driver's window or around the escape door needs to be fixed while you can get to the rivets. Hit the bus really good with a hose or better yet, pressure washer & have somebody on the inside look for leaks with a strong light. Rotten floor under the windows indicate window leaks. Don't caulk the outer window frames to the body on the bottom: there are weep holes in the window frame that put water behind the caulking then over the inner body lip & down the inside. (rotten floor!)
I spent the first year of ownership fixing badly repaired & worn systems. Since then I've not had to do more than the normal maintenance.
As others have said, get the basic bus "seaworthy" first.
E-mail me off the board if you need any advice (my $.02 worth).
Jim-Bob |
FAST FRED (65.150.247.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 5:39 am: | |
The VERY first step owning any bus is to get Da Book!
If you will simply do ALL the lube service that is recomended for the various milages , you usually find the problems , in your back yard.
Injectors "dropping out" sounds like a bad fuel problem , most tanks have a drain at the bottom, to get all the crud.
READ Da Book , you will solve most problems before they happen.
FAST FRED |
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