| Author |
Message |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.159)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 3:37 pm: | |
I have had such tremendously bad luck with compass equipment. I have tried Magnetic, Electronic, Digital, all stink! Even the Magnetic with adjustments for wayward magnetic fields in the car, indicate direction with, err, Less than the expected accuracy I had hoped for.
One Electronic compass I had came with the claim that our military was using a similar product. It even had a nice section where you had to drive in a circle a few times for the compass to "align" with the car or bus. It still stunk, being off sometimes as much as 30 degrees and at times just flashing all kinds of bad readings.
I have continued to play with this one and actually sent it back to the manufacturer to be checked but it came back still smellin like a skunk.
I see in the catalogs that the newer electronic LED compasses have included temperature readings and "ICE" alert but do they work any better?
Now I have tried all my compasses including the Electronic Marvel, in my cars and RV and result is always the same, (better to just wait for the sun to come up to determine East or sunset to determine West).
The only thing I have used that is dependable is the GPS unit (installed in the Laptop)which uses satellite data to determine just how Lost you REALLY are. The laptop is great to use VISUALLY but not so easy to move around. And there is a benefit to using a smaller compass in a car when setting up the GPS is not practical.
What are you, the great travelers of this country, what are you using in your vehicles for vehicle compasses? I hope your searches have been more "fruitful" than mine were.
"Imagine Your Dreams"
cdcdcdcdcd |
Craig S (65.202.123.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 4:11 pm: | |
Hi CD,
In the few cases where I needed to know my bearings, I was pointing a sat dish. I have a really cheap handheld compass not unlike the one I had as a Boy Scout. I was about 30 ft from the bus and it correctly pointed me toward the sat. We/I don't need one when we're cruising. My navigator always seems to know which way to go. That's what she tells me anyway.
Craig S. |
Terrance A.Haag (Mrbus) (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 4:24 pm: | |
Cory,
I still use the oldest know form of directional finder. If I am traveling on an even number highway, and the mile markers are getting smaller, I know I am going west, if they are getting bigger, then it is east. Odd number highway, numbers getting smaller, going south, getting bigger, must be going north. But if you are off the major network and traveling the back roads without mile markers, just ask your wife.
Gus Haag |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 4:30 pm: | |
What do you do if you're in California? (No Mile Markers).
Oh, yeah, ask the wife.
Gary |
Tim Brandt (Timb) (65.80.5.186)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 5:19 pm: | |
Don't most GPS units give you an accurate compass heading? I'm actually kind of curious about the answers because I have never understood the need for one on land....off shore navigating via dead reconing is another story. Even off shore the compass was a backup to the GPS |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (67.136.113.79)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
California has mile markers on freeways, little white flat posts with stenciled black numbers on them. (They do on the I-40).
No point in asking my wife, she's still asleep.......... LOL.
Peter. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 6:16 pm: | |
I think they frogot about I-40, haven't made it out to rip them up.
gary |
dougthebonifiedbusnut (24.62.99.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 6:35 pm: | |
Hey All,
Am I missing something or arent the sighns enough information. I ran the road for a short period of time and never needed a compass. |
Phil (24.195.250.147)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 6:38 pm: | |
Tim,
A GPS will NOT show a compass (magnetic) heading, it only knows course (movement). If the GPS is standing still it will generally show the direction of last movement.
Cory,
Have you tried an aircraft compass, can be had for less than $100? They must be "swung" to correct for deviation (magnetic interference in the vehicle) and even when set properly in an aircraft there is still a compass correction card used.
Phil |
Gary Carter (68.25.77.50)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 7:22 pm: | |
I use the cheap glass mounted compass in both the coach and the car. Stick them on, adjust and forget them.
Also have a garmin gps built into a PDA that works great also.
there have been a few times when the compass has bailed me out. Just didn't believe what it said, but fell back on the flight training that says "believe your instruments". |
Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 9:10 pm: | |
This satellite Internet system I sell uses an electronic compass to get its bearings to calculate telemetry to the bird. It must be calibrated to each vehicle because the magnetic properties vary alot. For this system, we have to find a straight line and postion the vehicle along it and take a reading. The we move the vehicle 180 deg. around on the same line and take another reading. This calibrates the compass. Guess what I am saying is that any elec. compass that does not have a procedure like this will probably not work very well.
I'd think the GPS will be your best bet for reliable headings as longs as you are moving a few miles an hour.
There is also magenetic deviation that varies depending on where in the country you are.
Scott |
Ken Turner (198.81.26.45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 9:59 pm: | |
Scott
In the "good ole days" When the compass adjuster came aboard to swing the ships compass he had certain city streets in mind,that ran
North/South or East/West and have us run out into the harbor about a mile.
Then we would line up (slow ahead)with the city street..steady as she goes..and he would do his thing. then do a 180 and repeat..
I think the magnetic compass nowadays, is for a good place for da coffee mug.
www.pipesusmc.net |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.213.134)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 1:13 am: | |
Scott: I have 2 electronic, both have 360 turn calibration and I get the same damn results as CD. Also had an aircraft unit. In the bus, was no better than the electronic. Good thing they are only a novelty and gadget rather than something u really need. If I want SW for my satellite, I take my plastic case one and have a spot on a table in the bus where it is accurate, providing I ain't parked under or near a power line. |
akrom (152.163.252.163)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 8:40 am: | |
Sextant ??? akrom |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:51 am: | |
GPS will tell you the heading between time points. Typical is 1 sec intervals, so if you are headed in a straight line for over 1 sec, it will be accurate to TRUE N. For magnetic N, you need to determine the local deviation factor. One laptop software package I saw had a file it checked to find local deviation, and would show a corrected heading for Magnetic. I am looking for that now. Not all too complicated to do - just interesting, since I use the map program in my laptop most of the time on trips.
On the other hand, askign the wife is much simpler
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
Larry (208.18.102.17)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:57 am: | |
I guess I thought everyone could tell directions by the sun moon etc. I would hate to think when in the air there is another pilot near me who did not know that.
Anyway buy a GPS also so try a aircraft vertical card compass.
I have in the bus a Magellan 750 + nav.
http://www.thegpsstore.net/detail_MA65203.asp |
Rick (24.14.167.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 2:06 pm: | |
Cory
I bought one at farm & fleet Works pretty good. I think it was around 25 bucks electronic need to make a 360% and it's set. only draw back was the suction cup didn't hold real good.
Cory I saw some kind of dish pointing thing on an earlyer post will you e-mail me at
rmwawak(@)comcast.net with the details or you can call me at (630) 941-1835
Rick 74 mc-8 |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 3:35 pm: | |
Larry
That's a fancy GPS unit! Did you consider using a laptop and a GPS card to do the same thing? If so, what were your thoughts? I am also planning on using the laptop for the backup camera.
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
Larry (208.18.102.17)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 4:01 pm: | |
Doug
Yes I tried one found I was playing to much with it and lap top sliding all over the place. However liked larger viewing with lap top. But I can set up so much faster now.
Oh another thing, I paid half of what you see it advertized for on the big internet store (the one we have to go to here to use it's name), You know starts with a big "E". |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 5:38 pm: | |
Just a cautionary note --
Here in CA (and probably some other states as well) it is illegal to have a laptop (or other general-purpose computer screen) anywhere where the driver can see it. Up until this month, a passenger in the front seat could have a laptop, but even that became illegal as of January 1 because it was being abused.
Things like "gee, officer, I was only using it for navigation" (or "for my backup camera") won't work -- he's heard it before, and it's still against the law. The ticket's only $10 (a "fix-it" ticket), but you'll have to rip out anything you've installed and then go before a judge, peace officer, or DMV inspector to get the ticket signed off. Depending on how much trouble you've gone to on your installation, that could be expensive.
At the moment, dedicated navigation systems such as the GPS shown above are OK, as well as video monitors that can ONLY be used for rear-view cameras.
BTW, this year's law changes were prompted by the proliferation of inexpensive (relatively) in-dash video screens, that were often being connected to DVD players. And yes, the cops are wise to the ones that fold back into the radio...
-Sean |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.41.162)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 8:40 pm: | |
Sean: I personally will buy into that law. I still have a problem figuring out how all of these guys are able to use a laptop screen to find their way on a map while hauling 30-45k pounds down the road at 65-70 mph. |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.244)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:45 pm: | |
The law is rediculous and another reason why law enforcement is gettng a bad name.
The GPS in a lap top is no different than a handheld or compass.
If you can't look at a compass and tell where you are going then that should be outlawed too.
GPS is nothing more than an electronic map, if you cant buy into that then what CAN you buy into short of asking Mr Law Enforcment to show you where to go?
"Imagine Your Dreams"
cd |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:03 pm: | |
I have a couple of touch-screen, portable computers that I am planning to mount at the drivers station.
As for that law, every cop car in the US violates it.
Gary |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:29 pm: | |
May be, but they're the cops. LOL
Richard |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.37.21)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 12:49 am: | |
Police cruisers are exempt from a lot of laws. When do u suppose one of them underwent an annual safety or smog check for the purpose of getting re-licensed. Not implying that they don't get good maintenance, but they don't buy annual tags for them either. That's only one of a host of exceptions made for public safety vehicles. Just like transit authorities regularly run buses that are over the legal limit for axle loading.
And who is going to honk their horn at the police cruiser sitting at the green traffic light while he looks up something on his console mounted laptop? Not me! I still am not convinced that people are paying full attention to their driving when they are pre-occupied trying to locate the intersection of 143rd St & 144th Ave on their 12" laptop display of their GPS map. |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 2:03 am: | |
Again, here in CA, "Authorized Emergency Vehicles" have an exemption allowing computer screens. They also get to use red lights, and blow through stop signs. You wouldn't do the later two things just because cops do, so why use that as a justification?
As far as the idea that this particular law is "rediculous," [sic] let me point out, as a safety professional, that distracted driving is a significant cause of motor vehicle accidents. Perhaps you, Cory, would never use your laptop (while driving) for anything but GPS applications, but there are plenty of other drivers on the road who would not hesitate to fire off a few emails while sitting in traffic -- the law exists because of those drivers.
-Sean |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 10:55 am: | |
Like any law, it can be challenged in court. I expect this one in CA that is being discussed to be challenged some day if it is too vague or not explicit enough to resist challenge.
It is also not unusual for lawmakers to pass laws that they know are not feasible to enforce, or able to withstand a court challenge - usually in Federal court - mostly because they need to show they did something to address a perceived issue. If it gets overturned, it's not their fault - they just blame the "liberal court system" (seems to be the latest cry of the disadvantaged in court challenges). In case one is wondering - I worked in high levels of government for over 25 years - I saw this first hand a lot of times!
They would have a tough time demonstrating that a GPS is a distraction vs a necessary tool. You could easily go overboard in writing a law to limit distractions. I can see entertainment only or integrated functions, but GPS is an operating tool.
So - being an old fashioned hard@&& and liking to investigate these things, can anyone point me to the statute number so I can look up the law and read it for myself?
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:14 am: | |
When I first started traveling to the Bay Area, I made my first trip to Fry's (an electronic's superstore from Hell) and they had, in the portable compter accessories aisle, a laptop bracket that mounts your laptop to the steering wheel.
No Kidding.
Gary |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 3:18 pm: | |
Doug,
Just to be clear: GPS's are allowed -- it's computers I'm talking about.
CVC 27602 is the relevant section, which refers explicitly to "Television" but also references "screens". In the past, courts have held that the "screen" portion of the section also applied to computer screens. Recently, some commissioners have let some folks off the hook because they made the legal argument that their DVD player did not constitute a "telvision broadcast." That, specifically, is the reason the legislature updated the code this year -- technology having advanced to the point that the terminology in the code is simply out of date.
The recently enacted legislation clarifies that screens used for DVD players, etc. (including computers) are encompassed within the prohibited equipment. Note that the section prohibits any such equipment forward of the back of the driver's seat, or anywhere else "which is visible to the driver while operating the motor vehicle." This precludes a unit for use by a front-seat passenger, even if mounted in such as way as to not be visible by the driver.
Note also that this section already explicitly exempted MDTs in law enforcement vehicles.
-Sean |
Sean Welsh (Sean) (64.81.73.194)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 3:23 pm: | |
Text of code section.
OK, I made it easy for you and got the relevant section of the CVC (2004 edition). Here it is, verbatim:
-----
27602. (a) A person may not drive a motor vehicle if a television
receiver, a video monitor, or a television or video screen, or any
other, similar means of visually displaying a television broadcast or
video signal that produces entertainment or business applications,
is operating and is located in the motor vehicle at any point forward
of the back of the driver's seat, or is operating and visible to the
driver while driving the motor vehicle.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the following equipment when
installed in a vehicle:
(1) A vehicle information display.
(2) A global positioning display.
(3) A mapping display.
(4) A visual display used to enhance or supplement the driver's
view forward, behind, or to the sides of a motor vehicle for the
purpose of maneuvering the vehicle.
(5) A television receiver, video monitor, television or video
screen, or any other, similar means of visually displaying a
television broadcast or video signal, if that equipment has an
interlock device that, when the motor vehicle is driven, disables the
equipment for all uses except as a visual display as described in
paragraphs (1) to (4), inclusive.
(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a mobile, digital terminal
installed in an authorized emergency vehicle or to a motor vehicle
providing emergency road service or roadside assistance.
-----
-Sean |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:22 pm: | |
Actually, this looks reasonable and enforcable (I am not an attorney - just know the process). A laptop would be allowed, as long as it is being used for mapping or rear view camera (specifically allowed) and not for an entertainment device.
This is a clearly written law that is easy to live with. I doubt it could be challenged, since they specifically allow vehicle systems and navigation functions. The term video signal is defined in the first part, so there is not a problem with the briefer reference in the lower portion. You could use a camera system easily through the same display. The only hitch I could see is if you have a video screen that does all that AND is a TV or DVD player screen (or is set up to be) unless you have an interlock so it doesn't do the entertainment functions while under way.
Now, lets talk grey area - if you have a laptop being used as a systems display or mapping display, you MIGHT run into a problem if you have movies stored on it or a DVD drive in it - but that could be argued quite easily in court. You might have the mounting in place that will not allow typing - just mouse movement or some such thing (just proposing generalities). I could see a problem also if you had a wireless data card in the computer since that could be used for e-mail which would be under the business aspect of the law.
In any event, It is a law that does not realisticly interfere with what I plan to do. I will be using an old laptop (P100 or thereabouts) for the mapping display and the rear view camera. Navigation beyond knowing where I am, would be done by the co-pilot so I don't see any reason to have anything loaded beyond that - even a solitare game. Others may have problems with using a general purpose laptop as noted above.
So - my $0.02 worth.
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 1:10 pm: | |
I'm using Mitsubishi Amity computers, a touch-screen device, one that I used on a warehouse inventory project.
It's about 9" tall, 11" wide 2" thick, a P166, SVGA touch-screen, no keyboard, mouse or external drives.
I plan to have my GPS and Cameras connected to this, however it will have Internet access (Mapquest, after all).
Garh |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.76)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 2:56 pm: | |
From what I see, a laptop with GPS on the screen is good. If they just blanket ticket everyone with a laptop in front, there will be a lot of tickets thrown out, too bad you cannot charge the Law Enforcement Officer for inconvenience and hotel costs while you stay for the court date.
I for one have come to the beleif that LEOfficers are pushy inconsiderate bulleys and many times will "push" a law to accomodate their own personal feelings a law should be.
I personnally avoid any contact with any LEOfficial for those exact reason. Any contacts I have had in the past have never been good and they always give you the feeling that you should bow and kiss their "errr" hand.
My laptop does not have a DVD drive and I can't connect to the internet without a land line. From other posts, it seems California has a lot of funny laws that do not favor the conversion anyway so my feeling about California is STAY AWAY. "A ticket for using a laptop, they can bend over and KISS MY "errr" hand.
cd |
Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 2:26 pm: | |
When I am driving, I just hate it when the cell phone rings as I am adjusting my laptop GPS display and I spill my coffee on my electric razor. Guess I will lower my laptop stand so it is out of sight a bit better next time I go to CA.
Scott |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 3:32 pm: | |
Scott, I assume you have the latest Book of the Month paper back laying on the steering wheel also?
Richard |
Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 3:45 pm: | |
Naw, just a trade journal on the dash and a "Learn Cantonese in your Car" CD in the stereo.
Scott |
Carroll04 (68.155.51.38)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 3:42 pm: | |
Lets see, we got people driving down the road in 30,000+ lb vehicles who can't tell which way they are going without a Radio Shack store full of equipment bitching about the fact that some cop is getting away with having more electronic stuff than they have. Any of you guys ever consider hiring chauffeurs, or maybe the rest of us oughta chip in and hire one for you. Omygod, there goes a vw bug with the driver toking on a doobie!!!!! |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 5:08 pm: | |
Corey has a point with the police attitude. They figure they will ticket you and you will either pay it or fight it, and the court gets to decide. Nobody will fight these things (usually - until they meet me).
The way to get back when a cop writes you a ticket for something that is CLEARLY allowed under law is to sue in federal court under he equal protection clause of the constitution. In federal court, they loose all the state imunities and you can go after an individual as well as an entity. It is done more often that some governmental entities would care to admit.
I have to say that most cops are just good people with an impossible job to do, but there are a few out there that ruin the reputation for the whole lot.
(been there - done that - got the t-shirt).
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
Tony (64.215.196.116)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 6:41 pm: | |
There Is some cops In Milan Ohio that are like that, If any of you are ever traveling through there be sure that you are going the speed limit, as a DJ. on the Radio said the other day, they will come out of the corn fields to get you, there is one In particular that will laugh at you when he gives you a Ticket, that makes It kind of hard to take. |
Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 11:17 pm: | |
Actually, it is usually Radio Shack I am trying to find on my GPS when my phone rings . . .
Seriously, though, I think we all need to be safe and attentive to driving. Don't really care if the dude in the vee dub has smoked a doobie as long as he can drive safely.
My point is that the law should dictate general terms such as, "all drivers must drive safely and not be a danger on the road" instead of something like, "drivers shall not: have a GPS visible, eat a burger, answer the phone, talk to their mother in law, ponder the meaning of life etc."
It qucikly becomes a slipperly slope when you start trying to legislate every eventuality.
Scott |