| Author |
Message |
Tom Connolly (Tomconnolly) (64.58.196.218)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 8:24 pm: | |
I'm soliciting your advice, experience and wisdom. Needed to assist me making the best possible decision in purchasing a new 3/4 ton pickup truck that will travel with me and my bus while I work out of town.
The truck will have 12,000 lbs of equipment & trailer connected by hitch with 1,100 of tongue weight approximately 75% of the time.
Here is mechanically what I am looking for: 2004 model 3/4 ton (Ford 250 / GM 2500 / Dodge 2500), Diesel engine, automatic transmission, 4WD and a Crew cab.
So far my understanding is that Ford's V8 Power Stroke and transmission are by International, Dodge's inline 6 Cummins with a DaimlerChrysler built transmission and GM has the V8 Duramax by Isuzu with an Allison.
What are the pro's and con's of these power plants and transmissions. I'm hoping for some guidance as I have no experience in this area.
My primary concerns are for Reliability, Serviceability, Longevity, True cost of ownership, Power/Torque curve, Noise level, Vibration.
Thank you in advance your comments are greatly appreciated.
Tom C |
degojo (68.35.160.48)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 8:50 pm: | |
Local agency bought several dodge diesels and w/automatic transmission and had high experience w/ transmission failures |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.41.162)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:06 pm: | |
Dodge has always had automatic transmission problems with various models; seems to be one of their trademarks. |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.41.248.188)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 9:33 pm: | |
I agree with Jmax, the Dodge with the Cummins has had a history of auto tranny problems mostly because the cummins has gobs of power and torque and the ability, with an aftermarket chip, to have gobs MORE power and torque on tap, the problem is that the stock trans can't handle it.
Supposedly, Dodge has redesigned their automatic to handle more.
Izuzu makes a pretty good heavy duty product and Allison makes the best heavy duty automatic transmissions...
I know a couple of guys with Fords that have powerstokes in them and both have added aftermarket equipment to them, they seem pretty happy with them...
All in all the Cummins is a highly sought after powerplant, but nothing beats an Allison automatic transmission, and if ever those two were combined the product of that union would be unstoppable!
Brian |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:05 pm: | |
It's not a dodge part that fails, it's a European trans, and it's a weak sister, I believe it's a ZF, but I won't swear to anything.
Gary |
Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.35)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:08 pm: | |
GM w/Duramax hands down. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:08 pm: | |
Oh--and dodge, as a manufacturer, does not have weak transmissions, the 727 and the 904s, nad their derivatives, respectively, hold up quite well, thank you.
Gary (Mopar or no car) |
Bill k. (165.121.86.83)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:20 pm: | |
I have a 3500 Dodge dually with the cummins, I went
with the std. Tranmission, So far so good, Iam thinking about adding a chip or a Banks power unit, any thought on the chip or Banks unit. |
richnewbee (64.12.96.105)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 10:39 pm: | |
I started asking the people that drove them daily, as work trucks there likes and dislikes about their trucks. I always looked at what i saw going down the road. I choose the ford f-350 power stoke and love it. If you look at all the tow trucks and roach coaches they all seem to drive fords. I guess thats why they are number one sold! |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.41.248.188)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:25 pm: | |
Don't know much about the Banks, though I have heard good things, but I do know bunches of people put chips in their Cummins.
Brian |
Bill K (165.121.83.107)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:28 pm: | |
That's what the adds say, but the old saying paper holds still for anything. My last truck was a Ford. I know there are good and bad in all, The Ford was one of the bad from day one. The Cummings is what made me buy the Dodge, plus I have had other Dodges, I think the Cummings hooked to the Std. tranmission will prove to be a good unite, any way I hope so. All and all I think they all are pretty good, just depends on your liking. I know there are some that will only drive one make and think that is the only one made, I have and will drive them all, just depends at the time what is out there. Just my opinion, Just like we all don't drive the same make of bus. |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.41.248.188)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 11:34 pm: | |
Gary, back in the day, Mopar was known to have GREAT drive trains what with engines like their slant 6 the 392 and 426 Hemi, the 340, 383 and 440 plus the 727, a famously stout tranny... But I swear, Chyrsler interior stylists of the 60's, 70's and 80's were smokin some nasty ganga mon!
Brian |
FAST FRED (65.154.177.85)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 6:12 am: | |
Just start each one up at the dealers lot , go outside and listen to the noise.
The Quietest one should be best , most modern engineering.
The Japs make some nice engines.
The Cummins can be rebuilt , the Fords are tossed at 150,000 in commercial service NEW installed ,
Enjoy , but please done leave it ideling when at lunch.
Too many folks have heard of the Alcan Highway construction , winter of '41 and seem to think its great to never shut the truck off.
Even a new 4 stroke DIES from excess ideling.
FAST FRED |
Larry (208.18.102.87)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 7:42 am: | |
Order the CAT with the Allison (they have it). Don't order ford with their Diesel, its a weard International. You can get Cummins with Allison.
If Four wheel drive and use as toad. Disconnect rear shaft and transfer case in neutral, use lockouts on front so you can disconnect them. |
Jayjay (205.188.209.8)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 7:59 am: | |
Gary, the ZF tranny was (is?) German made. Currently owned by Ford, with most production moved to Batavia, Ohio just East of Cincinnati, on U.S. Hwy 32 ...JJ |
Phil (204.89.170.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 8:07 am: | |
Owned a Dodge Cummins/auto, never had a problem with the drive train but lot of electrical and front end problems. Had a Ford with a Powerstroke/auto, no problems. From what I understand the short lived Powerstrokes are almost always due to perforation of the cylinder liners due to NOT taking care of the coolant. When I bought mine it came with lifetime oil changes from the dealer. In the 75,000 miles I owned it, not once did the dealer recommend checking/adding coolant additive as required by the factory. Ford dealers are car not truck dealers and service a truck like it was a car. Overall I love the Cummins but they are noisey but get substatialy better fuel mileage. I currently have an ISB (same engine as in the dodge) in a 24,000 pound motorhome with an Allison and get 11 plus MPG at 70-75 MPH. My Ford got 15-16 empty on the highway compared to 23 with the Dodge (both 4wd). As far as total cost of ownership the resale value of the Dodge is the lowest of the bunch. Good luck with you choice. |
Doug Potter (Doug86newell) (63.74.232.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 8:13 am: | |
When I looked for mine, the Duramax was not available. I ended up choosing the Ford F250 Powerstroke. I pulled 17,000 lbs with it and would forget it was there. Put 110,000 miles on it before I sold the trailer. Change filters regularly and no problems. I had no issues with anything in that amount of miles. My only complaint was the ride when no trailer attached, but even that is better now. Those fords like to be loaded. I now have a 3/4 ton Chevy and love the truck. It has the 6.0 gas. If I had to choose today, it would be a tough call between the Chevy and Ford. I would probably go with the Chevy as I like the ride. I have about 86,000 on this one and no complaints.
Doug |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 10:52 am: | |
--Chyrsler interior stylists of the 60's, 70's and 80's were smokin some nasty ganga mon! --
They had interiors?
Mine had fiberglass seats and a rollbar. Oh--chebbies and fords in the rearview.
Gary (Currently building a 71 Sport Fury, Hemi Orange/White, named "Orange Crush") |
H3Jim (68.105.103.139)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:53 am: | |
I have an F250 Power Stroke and I added a Banks kit. I am VERY pleased with both. It has massive amounts of power decent fuel mileage. It will tow anything I can hookup to, faster than I want to go. Banks designed their power boost to be conservative and reliable. I would buy it again no questions. If Ihad a complaint, it the turning radius, but since I have the crew cab, long bed, only the bus is harder to park. |
Gary Carter (68.25.19.221)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 4:18 pm: | |
The new 6.0 liter powerstroke is causing Nestar and Ford lots of hair pulling. The 7.3 may still be available and is a workhorse.
BTW it is Ford that has a ZF transmission installed.
Chevy has the Alison transmission, but is the weakest of the lot. But owners love the transmission, but it is maxed out behind the Isusu/duramax diesel.
The ISB Cummins is king of the powerplants, but it is backed by an updated version of the 727. Rumor had it that Dodge was going to offer the Alison but the torque of the new 305hp will tear the Alison 1000 apart.
Both the new 6 liter Nestar and the Duramax are high RPM engines which means they do not have the torque rise of the Cummins ISB or the 7.3 Nestar. |
Tom Connolly (Tomconnolly) (64.58.196.218)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 5:00 pm: | |
The Dodge truck manager quick to point out the Higher torque at lower RPM's of the Cummins.
He also said there is a revamped 5 speed auto that is expected in a couple months?
I must say that the GMC dealer had a 4x4 quad steer that turns a tighter circle than my wife's Saturn, although the thought of the added maintenance scares the heck out of me, It sure is impressive!
I met a owner of the Duramax / Allison at the pump today that was a long time ford man till now, he loves his new Chevy and the down shift braking that the Allison gives him.
The problem is that I'm talking to people that are biased, they are either selling or are invested, my thought is that it's likely that anyone who has invested 40K-50K in a vehicle is going to feel the need to justify their actions
Keep the comments coming!
Tom C |
ralph7 (208.148.72.129)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 6:46 pm: | |
Someone has put a 5.9 Cummins with a Allison 645?, no trans cooler and engine is inner cooled [water]. The set up is used in yard horses moving trailers around yard. Big R runns-em and the eng/trans is good. The service on eng oil, oil filters,fuel filters,check air filter. Trans change oil,internal an external filtersan no problems. But trans has two [2] marks for full cold and hot an does it expand. Think what this would do in a Dodge, most units rated at 30,000lbs towing. |
Tony (64.215.196.146)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 6:57 pm: | |
Ralph
I was browsing the net today and looking at some Cummins stuff, they are pumping that little engine up to 450 HP now and according to the email I was looking at 1000 lbs of torque, I thought It was quite Impressive.
Tony |
john w. roan (Chessie4905) (69.162.16.88)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 8:15 pm: | |
See if you can find a website for the new Ford diesel... have heard reports of problems with it. Also local garage said you have to pull the cab to replace cylinder head or gaskets as engine sets so far back in frame. Take a look; also the engine computer is mounted between the driver side front fender and inner fender panel.(I saw this) man, what a stupid place to locate the computer...May be ok if you never have any trouble. The 7.3 may be a better bet. |
Jamie Hahn (Corpsdriver) (12.207.248.160)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 11:05 pm: | |
My opinion is still an "opinion" even after all my research... Least of all evils... The Dodge Cummins Manual, although a quick look underneath at the frame and suspension gives me the creeps... about half the beef of the Chevy or the Ford. |
Gary Carter (68.25.22.204)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 2:11 pm: | |
Hard to base facts on physical size these days. The high strength steel being use by some will give more strength with far less weight.
BTW I don't own any of these trucks. My power plant is an 8V92 which would probably collapse the front end of any of todays pickups.
What is boils down to is you are going to be happy with whatever you buy. $30K spent makes you that way. |
fast fred (65.154.177.107)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 4:38 pm: | |
For 30K I'd purchase an Intl REAL TRUCK about 3-4 years old with a great DT 466 , and stick $25,000 in the bank.
And I would poll or carry most anything and never worry about brakes or overloading.
FAST FRED |
john w. roan (Chessie4905) (69.162.16.88)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:21 am: | |
Chevrolet has a medium duty crew cab with a pickup bed on the back..."2003 CHEVY 4500 Crew Cab, Monroe pickup conversion" Saw it in TNT magazine Jan. issue. www.nucar.com |
Johnny (63.159.152.227)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 12:44 pm: | |
Wow, what planet did this come from?!
"Just start each one up at the dealers lot , go outside and listen to the noise.
The Quietest one should be best, most modern engineering.
The Japs make some nice engines.
The Cummins can be rebuilt, the Fords are tossed at 150,000 in commercial service NEW installed."
That is so off the wall I honestly don't know where to start. The best pickup diesel, and there is absolutely no contest, is the legendary 5.9 litre Cummins ISB. The new common-rail ISB is actually quiet (though you know it's definitely a diesel), but the older ones were the loudest...and still by far the best. The 7.3 PowerStroke is a very good engine--worlds better than the much-quieter 6.5 Detroit. The new 6.0 PSD has lots of problems...I'd avoid it. The Duramax scares me: aluminum heads on a diesel. Also, the truck it's in is absolutely HIDEOUSLY ugly.
We have plenty of buses at work with 150-200,000 miles (asnd pushing 20,000 hours) on unrebuilt PSDs.
"Enjoy , but please done leave it ideling when at lunch.
Too many folks have heard of the Alcan Highway construction , winter of '41 and seem to think its great to never shut the truck off.
Even a new 4 stroke DIES from excess ideling."
That's what a fast-idle switch is for. I was out for 10 hours in a wrecker (other job) yesterday, a 1986 F-350, & it was running the whole time. If I was sitting, I bumped the RPMs to ~1300. Since the truck has over 500,000 miles on the original Navistar 6.9, we must be doing something right. |
Johnny (63.159.152.227)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 12:45 pm: | |
My choice would be a Ram 3500SRW with the Cummins HO & the 6-speed handshaker.
Make mine a zero-option model with vinyl seat, no carpet, radio delete, & every HD option available. |