| Author | Message | ||
| FAST FRED (63.234.20.54) Rating: |
At last!! I Got permission from these folks to post this info. December 2003/January 2004 30 Years of Representing America's Truckers DIESEL FUEL it’s a living thing But that doesn’t mean it must live in the wild. Good quality additives, used regularly, can help tame diesel so engines will perform better, longer. by Paul Abelson, technical editor We tend to think of diesel as just a fluid that comes out of the pump and goes into our tanks. We assume it’s just the way it came from the refinery, and the way it will be when we use it now, tomorrow or next week. We grow up driving cars before we ever get near our first trucks, and we all know about gasoline. It, like diesel, is a hydrocarbon (made of hydrogen and carbon atoms) fuel for an internal combustion engine. Gasoline is very stable for a long time, but if you’re storing something like a lawnmower or snow blower for a few months, you should add an oxidation inhibitor like Sta-Bil to the gasoline. Diesel oxidizes too, but worse. It comes from the refinery in as pure a form as can be, but almost immediately it starts to change. Unlike gasoline, in which each company refines, stores, transports and often sells it, diesel is refined, stored and transported as a commodity. With a few notable exceptions marketed as “Premium,” most No. 2 and No. 1 diesel goes into a few common pipelines. It is mixed and mingled with other refiners’ diesel, and removed at some remote point. Let’s say ExxonMobil puts 100,000 gallons into the pipeline. Through accounting methods, the company is entitled to remove 100,000 gallons at the other end. But the 100,000 gallons removed may have been put in by ChevronTexaco or Conoco. When everyone takes out what they put in, the system balances. The fuel goes into storage and then into distribution. In times of high demand, inventories may be reduced, or fuel may be “bought” from competitors. When demand is low, inventories are replenished. Additives are used throughout the process, because diesel has properties that affect its condition too. It is a complex mixture of hydrocarbon molecules, not a single, precise substance. Some of these molecules break down under varying measures of heat. Some react with oxygen in the air, and form sludge within the stored fuel. Humidity from warmer daytime air condenses when the air cools at night. The water condensed from the air mixes with and is suspended in the fuel. Bacteria and fungus spores are in the air, and they, too, enter storage tanks. These organic substances draw nourishment from the diesel molecules and oxygen from the water. They multiply and grow colonies that appear as a slimly scum. Additives alter some properties of diesel fuel. By contract with the pipelines, all refiners treat their diesel entering the pipeline with minimal levels of inhibitors — not to improve the fuel, but to protect the pumps, pipes and valves. Diesel also may be treated to bring it up to nationally accepted minimum standards developed by the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). Standard D975-81, Diesel Fuel Oils, is recognized as the standard for diesel in the United States. The standards are also included in the TMC Recommended Practices Manual, RP-304B. Additives sold at truck stops, dealers and jobbers go beyond the basic treatments used to keep pipelines flowing and diesel at minimum specifications. They are helpful in bringing diesel to the TMC Preferred Grade specifications outlined in RP309A. TMC Preferred Grade is an improvement over the ASTM specs. It raises cetane number from 40 to 50, cuts allowable water and sediment in half, includes a zero tolerance for bacteria and fungus, cuts allowable carbon residue and specifies energy content of at least 138,000 BTU per gallon. The fuel’s distillation range, a predictor of how easily and cleanly the fuel will burn, is also included. Many of these properties are achievable only with the use of additives. While TMC’s recommended diesel is usually available only to fleets buying in very large volumes, you can improve ASTM spec truck stop fuel with the national brand additives available today. What do additives do? We are most familiar with anti-gel additives, useful in winter to keep fuel flowing. Diesel components include at least 65 percent paraffinic molecules, either the wax itself or similarly structured molecules. As temperatures drop, these tend to separate from the hydrocarbon molecules and join together to form a wax structure. Ultimately, they turn diesel fuel into a jellylike mass. Before that happens, clumps of these joined wax molecules will block flow-through fuel filters. Years ago, when the filters clogged, they had to be thrown away. Now, several brands of concentrated additives will dissolve the jellied mass in the filter itself. But the secret to making money is to keep moving, not to stop and repair problems. That’s why we use anti-gel additives with wax modifiers. These chemicals attach to the paraffinic molecules and inhibit their ability to cling together. Water control is another important additive function. In early winter, when the temperature first falls below 32 degrees F, the freezing point, water in the lines stops more engines than gelled fuel. Later in the season, when additives have water under control, gelling becomes the main villain. There are two types of water control: emulsifiers and de-emulsifiers. Emulsifiers break water into tiny droplets too fine to be seen. They are suspended in the fuel and pass harmlessly through injectors instead of hitting the hot injector tip as a slug of water, then turning to steam with enough explosive force to destroy the injector tip. De-emulsifiers do just the opposite. They alter the fuel so it will not hold water. Water collects at the bottom of the tank and must be removed periodically, but none gets into the fuel system. Any organic (bacteria and fungus) growth remains at the tank bottom. Sulfur is a great lubricant. Diesel used to contain 3,000 to 5,000 parts per million. Today, we have only 500 ppm allowed, and almost all except 15 ppm will be removed in 2006. Something else is needed to lubricate fuel pumps and injectors. Many additives add the much-needed lubricity. No matter how cleanly the newest engines burn, there is always some soot deposited on injectors. With the extra fine holes and high pressures of today’s fuel injectors, soot can quickly clog injector holes and alter fuel spray, reducing power and fuel mileage. Detergent additives keep injectors clean and prevent gum, varnish and carbon buildup in the engine. Some additives inhibit or kill organic growth in the fuel. Biocides must be identified on the product’s label. Other additives can raise the cetane index of fuel, a measure of how easily the engine will start and run when cold. I can remember when drivers used additives only in winter. It wasn’t that the fuels didn’t need them. Quite the contrary. But engines were tolerant of soot, and high-sulfur fuel was lubricant enough for the fuel systems of the day. Today, additives are almost a necessity year round. Diesel fuel may be a living thing, but that doesn’t mean it must live in the wild. Good quality additives, used regularly, can help tame diesel so engines will perform better, longer. Paul Abelson can be reached at truckwriter@netscape.net Back to Dec 2003/Jan 2004 Index Copyright © 2003 by OOIDA All Rights Reserved 1 NW OOIDA Drive Grain Valley, Missouri 64029 1-800-444-5791 or 816-229-5791 | ||
| BobWoodSoCal (4.63.41.14) Rating: N/A |
what additives do you recommend FF, and why? as always, thank you so much for the info. i really appreciate it! Bob | ||
| Larry (208.18.102.109) Rating: N/A |
30 or so years of running diesel we fueled all our trucks and added 1 quart of trans fluid to the tank. When we started back in the early 60's engine mfg recommed this - to stop gelling and to keep the injectors clean. We never had a engine down even in the worst of climates. We have only lost one engine do to (not fuel) the driver over running the engine comimg down Jelieco mtn in Tenn, and a nother new truck which the sleeve sliped in less than a 100 mile. | ||
| Frank Allen (152.163.252.163) Rating: N/A |
Why not tell us what we need when and where to get it, ive never put anything in mine but i can see the need since it sits so much of the time Frank Allen 4106 | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (24.196.191.70)
Rating: N/A |
So now that they are taking the sulphur out, I wonder if what is being put back in as an additive is nor worse than the sulphur? Richard | ||
| Scott Whitney (69.35.6.233) Rating: N/A |
Use BioBor or some other biocide to keep the water-based buggies from colonizing in your tank. Also, try to keep the tank as full as possible, especially when sitting for long periods, to reduce the amount of air space and hence reducing the condensation, and consequently, water in the tank that you will have. Scott | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb) (12.8.192.60)
Rating: N/A |
I don't know other peoples opinios but I have always used Biobor for the diesel in my boat | ||
| CaSteve (208.19.54.74) Rating: N/A |
Hey Folks, Does anyone know if the additives will REJUVINATE the diesel in the bottom of the tanks that havn't been using anything to stabilize the fuel, and if not, does that tank need to be removed and cleaned before starting the additives? TIA, CaSteve | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb) (12.8.192.60)
Rating: N/A |
I don't think they will rejuvinate anything but I have often added some fresh fuel along with enough additive to cover the total amount of diesel in the tank to "shock" the fuel. After treating it be sure to keep a close eye on your filters as they will usually fill up pretty quick | ||
| Telestar Emery (142.59.209.189) Rating: N/A |
Thank you Fast fred, That is information wich will be of great value for a long time to come. Emery | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.131) Rating: N/A |
ok, I have added some additives right along when adding fuel, but this brings up a couple thoughts. 1) if you let the bus sit for a long period of time, do you need to re-add the additive, I guess I am asking if it has a shelf life and needs to be re-treated after an amount of time? 2) In the winter, where the bugs are concerned, when the freezing cold weather comes and the bus is in storage, do the bugs freeze and die, no longer being a concern? If the bus is in service, there then is a whole new thought of additives because as the fuel recirulates, it carries "warm" fuel to the tank and keeps it a livable temp for these bugs. And when changing out the filters, I read that some shops just refull the filter with Tranny fluid. Did I hear correctly and is this the way to go?? Thanks "Imagine Your Dreams" cdcdcd | ||
| Telestar Emery (142.59.209.189) Rating: N/A |
Mr. Dane, I am trying very hard to (imagine my dreams) but it seems like there is no one foolish enough or at least brave enough on this forum that has tackled converting a city transit bus. The bus I am talking about is a near mint 1980 GMC T6H307N 40'. It has a 6v71 DD and an Allison 3 spd trans. This bus was geared to cruise @ 110 kl/hr. Knowhere can I find someone that has done a complete conversion including re-skinning on this type of bus. Regarding my comment above about being foolish or brave, I feel that way simply because no one ever talks about them, are they that bad? Just wanna pick your brain on that subject. Cheers, Emery | ||
| HondoJoe04 (66.74.50.33)
Rating: N/A |
I was told by an old time diesel mechanic to add 2 gallons of gasoline to the full tank of diesel. Claimed it would kill the bugs, algae & freshen & clean the fuel. Anyone heard of this?? Joe | ||
| Telestar Emery (142.59.209.189) Rating: N/A |
My appologies for the off topic. Emery | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
Emery - You're talking about an RTS, aren't you? If so, you might enjoy this site: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RTS-bus-nuts/ If you aren't already a member, you'll have to join, but the process is fairly painless. Might also suggest you read the excellent FAQs they have in the "Files" section, lots of good info there. Now, back to the topic at hand: Anybody know where to get BioBor? Closest decent marina is a five hour drive away, not sure if West Marine carries it, or will ship it. Need a lead, preferrably in CA. . . RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| FAST FRED (65.154.177.254) Rating: N/A |
Bio Bor and other bug killers can be sent , but its petrolium based , so you pay "hazardous". On additives,my question & the Techies answer, "Also would you have any Brand recommendations for both Emulsifiers (for a bus tank) and De-emulsifiers for boat tanks (that frequently have a nice built in drain able sump)."FF "I won't recommend brands, but I can report that the leading emulsifiers in the US are Power Service and FPPF." The leading deemulsifier is Howes. Other good products are sold by Penray, Nalco and others. Read the labels before buying." This was news to me as I had been using Howes in the coach , so the crap is filling the bottom of the tank and I sometimes drive to 125Gal fills! Thank goodness for the pumping from the bottom I have done .(Boat oil change vacume pump and copper tubing wand).Will be at it again after it warms up. FAST FRED | ||
| Craig S (65.202.123.254) Rating: N/A |
Hi All, I found some more info here.... http://www.campingworld.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/5933048.cfm Slightly different application but informative. Craig S | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.44) Rating: N/A |
WELLL.. He, He, Haa Ha.. Mr TeleStar Emery If you cannot "Imagine Your Dreams" then you are on the wrong board! Everyone on this board in Conversion Mode has Dreamed of their "Conversion Royale", a slendid mobile home built on a tuff bus frame. Your comment leads me to beleive you have not yet gone thru this process and your attitude seems to dictate that you never will. As for me being FOOLISH to convert an RTSII Transit, then you are also calling about a quarter of the board FOOLISH as they all have or are converting a TRANSIT of some type and age. I think a TRANSIT is no more foolish than buying a rusty old Eagle and having to tear down to the floor and rebuild the framework from scratch. There are all kinds of converters and most of the RTSII converters enjoy the fact that they have stainless steel frames and the bodies are of a fibre glas material so reskinning is rarely needed and if so, is mountains easier than reskining a MCI or EAGLE. Ceiling height of an RTSII is 6.6' so roof raises are not recommended. Not all RTSII's are junk from the city and many are highway buses. Mine comes with a strong 8V71 and 3 speed Allison. I know it does 70 and I dare say if you are driving a BUS at 100 MPH, then you might consider seeing a shrink because you are dangerous to us all. Some conversions are made with a budget in mind, not everyone is a Millionaire and can afford a total teardown and the reason we all find the bus that fits the bill is because of the way we will use the bus. Some buses are great for fulltiming, others for occasional getaways and each style of bus lends a charactoristic that fits the plan. I find your comments "Disturbing", from one so new to the board and so willing to "show" what you do not know to be. This is a friendly board and everyone HELPS each other, never be-littles anyone or their choices of bus. A bus, of any flavor is an enourmous project to take on for anyone and members of this board always are here to help out in any what that they can. In my eyes you are now a square peg, you need to round off so you can fit in the round hole and fit in the group. Calling a long time member of this board "FOOLISH" makes, at least me, wonder who the FOOLISH one really IS. So in the true spirit of this board, and the members who work so hard to enjoy the finished product of their conversion, I will again say..... "Imagine Your Dreams" cdcdcd | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.138)
Rating: N/A |
Cory....pray for him. And give him a hand. We all started this exciting, but often dubious, hobby at one time or another; remember when??? I sure do and needed all the help I could get..... Most of it from this board!  THANX to Ian, RJ, FF and a BUNCH of others, including you. Keep on keepin' on!! RCB '64 Crown HWC | ||
| Telestar (142.59.209.189) Rating: N/A |
Mr. Dane, I meant no offence to anyone! I mearly stated that there is no talk about converting " A CITY BUS. I am no stranger to sertain types of bus conversions However I "Am" to the types that are discussed on this forum. Which I might add that I enjoy very much. I believe you have answered one of my questions by taking offence and snubbing your nose. A city transit is what I can afford at this time and I "will" be converting it with the help of people on the board. Thanks in advance,Emery | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb) (68.211.147.14)
Rating: N/A |
Telestar, Reading through both your posts it appears there has been a miscommunication as Cory is also converting a transit bus and mistakenly thought you were snubbing your nose at transits. You guys are actually on the same team FWIW I also plan on an RTS transit conversion. | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.17) Rating: N/A |
Mr Telestar Emery I am open to all who voyage these cyber pages, I snub no one! I do have some knowledge on the subject and am happy to share. I acknowledge that all buses have their places in the conversion world and I've seen some of each type that were slick! I believe there is no bad bus, just make sure you are getting one for the task in mind. Its a shame to waste all that time and effort only to be dissapointed when completed. I chose GMC RTSII for its sleek looks, cost and its ability to fit my needs upon completion. I enjoy working on her and am anticipating the great times to come. Where were we, DIESEL FUEL AND BUGS "Imagine Your Dreams" cdcdcd |
