| Author | Message | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 216.67.116.242  Rating: N/A |
Hi all, We have a new bus nut that is having charging problems in his new to him GM 4106. He is broke down at Teresa's house (Happycamperbrat) Anyway he isn't a member on this board and has a question on BCM under Teresa's thread "I met another Nut today, looking for advice" He is from my home town in Homer Alaska and has been broke down for a couple of weeks. If anyone can help him please reply to the thread on BCM if your a member there. Thanks Gary | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 186 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Yaeh, the poor people are stuck in he-l-l on the surface of the sun in my backyard. Dallas has been in contact with them but Im sure any and all help is appreciated. They are now talking too about storing the bus further up north because they were supposed to be home last March. This has really turned into a nightmare for them..... (Message edited by happycamperbrat on May 05, 2011) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1225 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.68.214.234 Rating: |
A bunch of us here will help if he'll ask! Teresa, does someone there have a voltmeter (and know how to use it) so we can suggest where to check? A factory wiring diagram would be helpful also. With a diagram, I can troubleshoot it from here, and Ridgecrest isn't too far. Email me please, and we'll work something out. George | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1494 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.212.221.97  Rating: |
Absolutely as George requested/suggested.... ...ask (have)him get in touch with George. Under the circumstances, I am quite sure a bunch of folks would be most happy to help. Phone number, DIRECT contact so that one could ask questions would also be important. Email is fine, but person to person-voice to voice- question to question is much preferred. I'd offer myself, but know absolutely nothing about GM 4106 or any other GM...   <. And best wishes to the Alaskan.....this is a great bunch of folks and those who offer are serious....take advantage of their X-pertise. Thanx for speaking for us, Geo.... RCB | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 523 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.203.25  Rating: |
George, I can send you the wiring diagrams for the 4106 if you need them. From everything that's been said on the other board, it sounds like there is either a bad ground or a bad cable resulting in a poor contact. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1226 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.68.214.234 Rating: N/A |
Dal, Would you please, as my MCI diagram just won't do much good! toddelec at psyber dot com Most of our buses alternators and regulators are wired about the same, but a schematic is a great help. I'm only about a hundred miles away, and could go over there this weekend if it works? Thanks, this is just what I was hoping for! G | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 524 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.203.25 Rating: N/A |
George, You've Got Mail! | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 187 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
George, this weekend would be fine! I'll put out a GREAT BIG jar of suntea and make some vegan fudge too But, do you guys really want him double posting at both boards? It gets confusing sometimes when people do that... Dallas has all the contact info. If you still want him to post here, I will ask him to tomorrow after work. Additionally, he is having conectivity issues.... he's having problems picking up my wifi signal with his IPOD..... Im thinking it might have something to do with the construction of the 4106s as my mom's house is further away then his bus but my mom gets the signal strong, whereas his keeps getting dropped...... Oh yes, the voltmeter.... I have one and so does he. I also have a load tester, hydrometer and battery charger. (Message edited by happycamperbrat on May 06, 2011) | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 280 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.51.33.234  Rating: N/A |
EiA cheap contractor's generator, in a ventilated bay ( I can fit one in the bay with the heatiers blower). , an extension cord and and a battery charger , will get them hgome. Unless they have a fancy repower the 8-71 should run with almost no draw,....don't even need to run the gen all the time. This is a get it home solution that could be used for many many miles easily. Please note the gen has to be vented /exhausted in such a way as to not poison the passengers with CO. Of course bad grounds etc will still cause many other problems, including no start/no reverse etc.... BTW do they have a toad? There is another way if they have a toad. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 188 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
No toad...... reverse is bad too. Starter is creating problems too.... I could go on and on at this point. Every system on the bus he has either had to rebuild or is rebuilding or will need to rebuild. There are so many things wrong, it's crazy. But all of it seems to stem from the electrical in one way or another. The people who sold it to him said it had been parked for 3 years but they took it to Quartzite this past January and everything was fine...... As for me, with the stories Ive heard and what Ive seen... I think the PO lied about Quartzite and about 3 years ago took things apart with the intention of rebuilding. I think he then decided to sell it and slapped things together quickly and carelessly. I know about buyer beware and all that. But these people were from Alaska and had to go all the way to Yuma Arizona to get the bus, and were supposed to drive it all the way back to Alaska. The PO knew this and told them it was "ready to roll" and just let them take it in this condition.... it's really awful to do that to another human being imo (Message edited by happycamperbrat on May 06, 2011) | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 281 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.51.33.234 Rating: N/A |
I've dealt with all this stuff on my bus. Really suggest a couple o extension cords from cockpit to engine...I drilled a hole through the firewall to make the run shorter. If reverse is bad as well could be the main engine/on/off realy is bad as I seem to remember this controls a bunch of source current, works hard and mine was toast. But working through all this takes time and sanity. You can control on/off, reverse with one ext cord and monitor engine temp and oil pressure with another.... | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1514 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.195.75.99  Rating: N/A |
The basics always work, Check/Clean the battery ground to the body. Clean , Clean , Clean all the wiring in the batt area , bur esp the ground. "question on BCM" Is that board still working? Still requiring a registration , and still stealing board answers to use as space filler? FF | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.120.170 Rating: N/A |
Yes, BCM is still working, course they have banned me and all my family for life cause I refused to sign a written set of rules and send them back so they could hang them on their trophy wall, the lesson learned here was to never, never question the accuracy of any of their chosen few, I'm quite happy here and even tho some of their chosen few are also here I've done quite well at ignoring them, they can be as right as they want to be and I don't care, I have friends here and thats what counts and maybe at some point I can actually help somebody, my only claim is that I can pile sawdust a little bit. Life is too short to have another heart attack because somebody has to be right all the time. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 161 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 173.180.124.202 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, the answer to your ? is yes have him post on the best board as this is where old bus nuts hang out and many of us do nut ever go to the other boards. over the years as many will tell you as FF stated clean all the terminals, at the battery ,on the wall of the battery compartment, on the back bulk head and on the engine itself.take an angle grinder with a wire brush on it and clean the AL. under those connection points,not just wire brushing the bolts, use dialectic grease when putting back together, bad grounds are 90% of the troubles. the connection on the back bulk head is the major one ,if it is not clean the battery will not charge, the bus will not start, the lights will not work proper, and many other things. so get down and block the bus proper and slid under and clean that ground. disconnect the battery first. let us know how you make out on THIS board. tks. mel 4104 | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1227 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.68.214.234 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, You're fine to post for him, we're not picky. As for the "other" board, mostly I just don't have time with a more than full-time job. Dallas has sent me the schematics (I will need an address...) George | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 189 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
You got mail George, and I learned a good lesson with you guys in this thread. From now on, both boards gets the same issues/problems. I totally respect the wisdom and advice offered at both boards. The friendships I experience at BCM and at BNO are very heart warming and I love both boards. (but many of the guys on both boards bicker back and forth against each board like a bunch of old ladies lol) | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 190 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
This is a ccp of what they posted as problems: Start of bus was hard as if batteries were low. Amp meter on dash showed heavy discharge, as in pegged the needle on discharge side of guage at low RPM. When motor was at high RPM, it was charging. Turned off bus, could not restart. Starter solonoid hit hard, would not turn over engine. Separated house and coach systems and determined house system not of issue but never reconnected two systems. Very slowly and systematically went through electrical system looking for dead short, with voltmeter. Multiple minor issues found. Put in new set of brand new 8D coach batteries, still would not start coach. Roll started, fired right up, ran well, voltage meter still full discharge. Turned off bus, would not restart. After turning off bus and trying to restart, solonid does not click or make any sound whatsoever. Spent several days looking for and running down several issues: 1. ignition switch corroded and not turning off completely, minimal amount of power running through at all times 2. all switches on dash faulty, not performing properly or shutting off- corrosion 3. went over electrical system, eliminated all wires that were not being used. Re-sautered new ends on all wires in question. Found one wire with total dead short. When disconnected, rest of system appeared to not be shorting out 4. Put new starter in , old starter was bad. Wire with dead short disconnected..of unknown origin, location at service panel next to driver seat. 5. started bus, bus starts well, total discharge on meter, wire with dead short still disconnected- with bus not running there was no discharage on batteries when wire with short was disconnected but total discharge when bus was started. Next issue: installed rebuilt starter originally in a 4106 w 8v71. Starter sounds like someone is randomly beating on it with 4 lb sledge hammer when engaged, stops when disengaged. Were there different starters for different busses? Without having counted the teeth, they appeared to be the same, rotation is correct...getting ready to tear apart again..aargh, so hoping for advise soon! | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 191 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
Another ccp from them: [quote author=MDV Maria V link=topic=20014.msg218561#msg218561 date=1304646419] Hello Here is the image of the old starter, teeth are the same, solonoid appears to be the same but pos and neg terminals are reversed from the other starter solonoid. the teeth on the new starter and the teeth on the flywheel are a bit chewed up as they are not engaging (this is in response to a question posted on teresa's thread, earlier regarding the banging sound we were hearing when starting up new starter. We were asked to start a new topic so will post our intro next! Thanks for your help. Background of our issues are to be found on Teresa's thread, we will repost them here! [IMG]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/happycamperbrat/Ron%20and%20Kristen%204106/002.jp g[/img] [/quote] | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 192 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
Another ccp: Here are the 2 starters side by side for comparison [IMG]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/happycamperbrat/Ron%20and%20Kristen%204106/RKstar ters.jpg[/img] | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 193 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
The starters pic of the gear end: [IMG]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/happycamperbrat/Ron%20and%20Kristen%204106/003.jp g[/img] | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 194 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
Where we are is Ridgecrest, Ca http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ridgecrest,+ca&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Ridgecrest,+Kern,+California&gl=us&z=12 (Message edited by happycamperbrat on May 06, 2011) | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 216.67.116.242 Rating: N/A |
George, I admire you for wanting to take your weekend and go out of your way to help Ron and Kristen. I know what it feels like to be broke down a long way from home with limited funds. I broke down In Mount Shasta California a long time ago with very little money and no friends in the area. A story like this makes me want to fly down from Alaska and help. But I too have limited funds and it would cost a fortune. Teresa, Thanks for posting all of that here! I thought about doing that myself. I know you have to work days and they are not members here. I hope all is going well. If not I'm sure when George get's there you all will figure something out You have one of the best coming to help. Gary | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
I just spoke with Kristen on the phone and told her about George. They are both very grateful and excited! I told them they were getting the best of the best! | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
They just posted this: Update this am: Old starter when jumped, solenoid only throws sparks, no movement. New starter when bench tested, functions properly; first bench test procedure was to disconnect all three bolts and back starter away from fly wheel. Reconnected battery cables at battery connections- did not remove any cables from starter for this test, only pos and neg at battery. Starter engaged and ran smooth and strong with no load. All measurements and apparent visuals between two starters would appear that they are the same starter, turn the same direction, only apparent difference is different solenoid. Now under impression that this is possibly a relay issue to solenoid, causing chattering under load and am regoing over all cable connections to assure that they are clean and properly connected. Ron will put starter back in, test and if cables are not the issue, will test by jumping past relay. Will report back soon, thank so much for helping! | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 201 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
another update: Starter does not grind; when starting, it hammers very hard until engine starts and the key is let off, then hammering stops. Does not hammer when key is in run position or make any sound whatsever, only sounds when key is in start position. The new starter is wired exactly like old starter. If it is not right, it has been like that since purchased two months ago. Negative is grounded directly to bus body. There is a connection from bus body to engine. Starter is grounded directly to bus body. Positive runs from batteries to connection block, from block, one cable runs to starter, smaller cable runs to front of bus. From starter, cable connection goes directly to alternator. Wire from relay goes to solenoid. RE: relay, could be relay, we did find one burned up going to tail lights, another that went to old horn. Starting issue may possibly be a bad relay chattering, causing hammering in starter. Yes, we have roadside assistance with AAA. I would suggest that anyone planning an Alcan trip get the full protection! Yes please on connecting us with the GM group who is going to AK June 1. We will already be home one way or another, by then. We may be looking for a place to store her for the summer, if anyone has any ideas about that. She was meant to be a stateside bus, anyway! Planned to drive through Oregon, John, thanks for coverage! Ron says thanks so much, you all "rock"~ KRISTIN | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1371 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.178.71  Rating: N/A |
Just a thought!!! try hot wiring the starter solenoid!! You will bypass all relays. One side of the sol is already grounded so just put the positive to the other side and see what happens. Lots of possibilities eliminated that way. You can do that at the starter. gomer | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1369 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.67.148 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, I don't think that the starter is wired right. It looks as though one of the big posts on the solenoid is connected to ground. Those big posts on the solenoid are for hot cables only. Yes, the solenoid is different; ours looks like the replacement, and the original is something that I don't recognize. The big post on the end of the starter is the isolated ground post. The heavy wire on the original starter provides a ground connection to the solenoid coil. The hammering could be coming from the starter being miswired; it is dangerous if that is the case. Do not bypass the relays to apply power to the starter motor while miswired; very heavy arcing could occur. While most people think that starters can be grounded to the body, that will not work reliably on aluminum buses. It is best if a 4/0 ground cable is run from the starting bank to the big terminal on the end of the starter motor. The currents are high enough to eat up driveline bearings and u-joints if the starting and generator currents go through them. All big starter cables on a 4106 should be 4/0. Patience is needed to deal with these problems. There are some good hands on the boards. Best if the owners get to the point that they understand the starter wiring before playing with the kind of power those new batteries can put out. Good luck. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1100 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
He is wired right on the new starter it goes from the end ground to the small terminal on the solenoid and should have short ground cable from the starter end to the block at least most buses do. He says when it starts the amp gauge pegs on the discharge side like the starter stays engaged or something is drawing more amps current than the alternator can handle a bad ground the alternator will charge full blast. I asked if he had the batteries connected right never got a answer back.George will get him going | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 202 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
he is under the bus working and his wife is online on and off again. To both his wife and I, often you guys speak japanese..... but fortunately Ron understands the lingo and is doing as everyone is suggesting. They registered for this forum but it wasnt aproved yet. They will be on tonight I am sure. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 526 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, any one of us will be happy to translate for you. There's no need to fear, Underdog is Here! (Message edited by Dallas on May 06, 2011) | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 203 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
The biggest thing I was able to make out of it was that awful 4 letter F word...... | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 162 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 173.180.124.202 Rating: N/A |
the cause of the starter hammering may be caused by a bad start relay, if that relay chatters the the starter will keep trying to turn and the stop each cycle of the chatter, this will make the teeth of the sel hit the teeth of the fly wheel like when you try to start your car and then retry when the starter is still turning. Teresa do you have a phone # we can reach you at as it is easy to talk than type. mel 4104 | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 204 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Update from Ron: update and thanks so much for all the suggestions! Wiring is most definitley correct, all terminals have been thouroghly cleaned, both pos and neg. starter has been bench tested prior to reinstallation, soon to occur. Bench test: starter solenoid on new starter, doesn't chatter, engages very solid. Starter spins freely. Old starter solinoid now engages very solid, old starter does not turn. I can turn old starter manaully but not with DC power. Have determined starter is not miswired and works correctly | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
You got mail Mel at selaplante@bcsupernet.com | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 206 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
I just spoke to Ron and he is convinced the new starter is the correct one, the wiring is right and he cleaned it all, etc. but he still has doubts about the relay..... I think that is next (Message edited by happycamperbrat on May 06, 2011) | ||
| Matthew J Rutkowski (Matt_rutkowski)
Registered Member Username: Matt_rutkowski Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 98.235.157.220 Rating: |
George Todd is the best of the best. I have had the pleasure of having him teach me alot when I was picking my bus up in CA.Dont worry your in good hands he will get you going! Thanks again George. Matt | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1101 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.60.241 Rating: N/A |
you can almost bet it is going to be something simple the full discharge when running is thing that has me puzzled | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 282 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.51.33.234 Rating: N/A |
If you are worried about the relay, bypass it. sert up a start switch in the engine bay....there should be one already, bu tit's easier to start fresh. This is not complicated....what is complicated is messing with ancient relays and switches and wires that are going bad | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 207 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Patrick, that is exactly what Ron said he is going to do..... bypass the relay and try to start it. But first he has to get the starter back in. He says he feels more confident now because he has fine tooth combed the wires and cleaned everything. "Hopefully" bypassing it will work and maybe even his batteries will charge. He said if this doesnt work, then he is going to start looking at the alternator..... | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 527 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
Clifford said,"you can almost bet it is going to be something simple the full discharge when running is thing that has me puzzled" To me it almost sounds like the batteries are hooked up backwards. But, yet, if they were, wouldn't they spin the starter bassackward? I dunno, I've worked on some positive ground Fords that would spin the starter the proper direction, but would read discharge on the gauges. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1370 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.67.148 Rating: N/A |
Dal, series wound motors are not polarity sensitive; that's how the original bus starter is wired. A lot of modern motors are permanent magnet motors, and they are polarity sensitive. A good example is the power window motors. The switches simply reverse the polarity to change the direction of travel. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 208 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
haha!! Eat your heart out guys, George and I are related! He is my ex cousin in lala!!! | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 287 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 75.210.198.79  Rating: N/A |
To me Dal it does sound like the Alternator is bad, and if it is running directly off the Batteries which would drain them pretty fast would it not? Chromie | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1228 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
UPDATE, and some more help please! We are able to start and run the bus from the rear electric panel now, and we have charging! Electric is a nightmare, and unfortunately the maintenance manual doesn't have the schematics in it. Wires off everywhere, etc. From what I can see, it should be terminal 19 in both the front and main terminal boards, but the start switch doesn't enrgize 19 in the rear, and jumping to 19 with a hot doesn't pull in the relay. Pushing in the relay starts the engine properly, the new starter and solenoid are fine. Anybody got a 4106 Schematic PLEASE? thx, George | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 529 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
Crap! I thought that copy had the schematics in it! I apologize. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 2076 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.91.140.4  Rating: N/A |
Theresa, what user name have they tried to register with, and I'll get Ian to dig it out from amongst the internet robots. Both BNO and BCM get hundreds of registration attempts a week by the evil robots trying to gain access to the sites. The moderators have to go thru manually to approve new accounts, and you have to look human, fill in some fields with human answers, in order to not be deleted. More of the peace and quiet we take for granted at both sites. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.120.170 Rating: |
Thats why it took me almost 3 years to get my account set up, nobody told me I had to look human. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 2077 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.91.140.4 Rating: N/A |
cody, in your case, you were being picked on... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.120.170 Rating: N/A |
I feel better now, I thought it was cause of my dilithium crystals. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 209 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 166.205.143.139 Rating: N/A |
still looking for that shematic here guys..... PLEASE or Im going to send them all to your backyard next!!!! Even my cuz goes!! haha!!! | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 216.67.116.242 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, Maybe you guys should post over on the other board also. Might get even more viewers. Somebody has got to have one. I've searched all over the net for you guys with no luck. Gary | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 210 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
It's okay now. George and Ron drew a pink fluffy rabbit out of their hats and came up with what they needed! All is good | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 211 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Thought you guys might appreciate seeing the rabbit being pulled from the hat  | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1495 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.219.50.211 Rating: N/A |
Thanx, Geo...and Ron. Good show; God bless you!! All's well that ends well....some one said. (unfortunately, can't make out the pic...2 small, I s'pose) And thanx, Teresa(sp?)....for the tenacity. RCB (Message edited by chuckllb on May 07, 2011) (Message edited by chuckllb on May 07, 2011) | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 59 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 216.67.116.242 Rating: N/A |
I'm glad to hear it's all going good. Teresa, give yourself and George a big pat on the back. I hope that if I ever break down, it's in your neck of the woods. (or should I say desert?) You two are the greatest!!!! Gary | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Cousin in lala George gets all the credit here!! With just me these poor people would be stuck on the surface of the sun f-o-r-e-v-e-r | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1229 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Happy Mothers Day! We have start circuit front to back now, along with proper charging, and the starter, solenoid and flywheel are fine. Start relay and generator interlock relay are OK also, only problem is we can't find the 3 Ohm, 100 Watt resistor that the starter relay coil grounds thru... It isn't in the pictures of any of the electric panels, and the 2nd generator schematic we found doesn't list where it is either. We have done a LOT of looking, but the PO really did a number on it, not to mention age. We're going to adjust brakes this morning, as they say it doesn't stop too well. What a small world this is, I was married to Teresa's uncle's sister-in-law. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 532 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
I'm glad things worked out for you - and them, even with my slight Fox-Paws! "I was married to Teresa's uncle's sister-in-law." That sounds almost West Virginian or North Dakotan! If you are still there, can you check out Teresa's Power panels and see what she needs? I have a lot of stuff here that could be re-purposed, all for the cost of shipping! | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1376 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.178.71 Rating: N/A |
Easy Dallas I am from West Virginia and I be proud I am GONE LOL Not really! I still love the beautiful country. Gomer | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 213 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
On 2nd thought........ cuz George is actually Uncle George lol But I got bad news guys, the rabbit died! We still need a schematic..... Cant figure out circuit #85 | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 533 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
Which is circuit 85? | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 214 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
I dont know...... that is just what they told me | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 215 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
circut, terminal, stud..... #85 | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 534 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
The real question is, What is it suppose to do and where is it suppose to go? Maybe my 4104, 4107, 4108, 4905, H8H and S8M manuals might help. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 216 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
No one knows what it is supposed to do or where it goes...... (Message edited by happycamperbrat on May 08, 2011) | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 217 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Dallas, could you send the 4104 and we will give it a shot | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 535 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
George has it on the link I sent to him, just follow to the "parent" | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 218 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Dallas I dont see "parent" I only see: DCIM and MP3 and maintenance manua GM4106 and WMPInfo | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 536 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
that sounds more like your camera, which is probably a Sony. I'll send you a link for it on an email | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 696 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245  Rating: N/A |
Teresa..you have email regarding circuit # 85 | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 219 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
I got a canon.... but I just posted this at BCM: Well......hmm, bad news again...... I just got inside and the guys said the starter is bad afterall and will have to be rebuilt. No one around here does that kind of work. The guys are hoping maybe the bushings can be switched and it will work. Otherwise they will probably have to have it towed to Bakersfield and stored there for awhile. Their insurance AAA will cover the 200 miles..... and as for #85 it is hooked up to "something" on their bus and the guys are trying to run that down too | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 220 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jack! You got mail too | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 697 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
I don't get much since Pete & I fell in love..... ;) | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 537 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
Well, Poop! And Here I made a trip home to find the file and upload it, only to find out there's a Fowl~RTS hybrid! | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 221 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
George and Ron can explain the starter situation much better then me.... but yes the old starter is completely dead. The new starter was taken out (again) and jumped to the batteries on Georges truck and didnt do right..... so now they are currently taking apart the new starter and hoping they can just replace the bushings. There is no place around here that will rebuild starters. Because it is left hand turning, it is harder to find a replacement and more expensive. If they cant do anything about the starter, they are probably going to either drive it or tow it to Bakersfield to Don Fairchild. | ||
| Don Fairchild (Don_fairchild)
Registered Member Username: Don_fairchild Post Number: 55 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 174.134.196.91 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, I have been gone since friday and just looked in to catch up on this thread. no need to tow the bus. I have a starter. send your address to my e-mailsales@cctskit.com and I will bring it over in the morning. Is there someone that can put it on and hook it up. Don 8884733626 | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 223 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: |
Thanks for the offer Don! I thought by now Uncle George would post and update, but I will. As it turns out, the new starter has a stripped screw that they discovered when checking out the brushes. This little bitty tiny screw was the source of many problems. The brushes were fine. But the screw was causing little contact of the electrical. When they replaced the screw and hooked it up to Uncle George's batteries on his truck it then worked great! They installed the starter and it fired right up with no hammering noise and was charging the batteries and the lights are working!! So all "that" nightmare is now over. I think they are leaving tomorrow and headed north. Problems still remain though with them thinking it is a bad ground somewhere or something that caused the first starter to go out. So up north a bit they may run into the same problem...... I think they are going to sleep on it and figure out exactly what to do next. But this was a HUGE victory! Thanks again Don for your generous offer to come out, but for right now it is not necessary. However, I dont know for sure, they might decide to head West to your place tomorrow..... Im just not sure at this point but will keep you updated! | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 224 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Dang! Don I just got your email returned to me as undeliverable...... it's too late to call you, so I will call you tomorrow AM | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 507 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 69.171.161.117  Rating: N/A |
Dallas the fruit that hybrid may bear is frighting | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.120.170 Rating: N/A |
hmmmmmmmmmm teresa,, theres those stars and votes again,, the plot thickens | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 227 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Oh Im a bahd girl! I didnt get to call Don today...... the dog ate my homework and the check's in the mail..... Sorry, I blew it! I owe you BIG now Don!! Ron and Kristin did take off this morning and George got home last night. George traveled over 100 miles to come out here for 2 days and help! Just an awesome story there! Kudos! Ron and Kristin were just wonderful people too! They are great people to know! They said they are heading north, the wind is calling them in that direction Dallas, George said to send me the power stuff and he will come back and help me install it! Now it just doesnt get better then that! | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 291 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 75.208.185.185 Rating: |
This is a true Busnut Story. Busnuts helping Busnuts and all of us being able to follow it. T yas done good. Give yourself a big hug and you met your long lost Uncle-Cuz. We all met the new Busnuts and sent them on their new journey to the frozen tundra. And none of the complainer's showed up,LOL Good Job George, May your rewards be many. Stay tuned next week for lessens on how to wire an electric panel for the 3rd time and see if Don Fairchild is still on his way to Teresa's, or did he get stuck in Palm Springs drinking a Bevey with the upper crust. Will Dallas find the electrical diagram or again will it turn out to be a plumbing re-route for an RTS bus? Chromie | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 542 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, I still need to know what pieces you need. Meter heads? Meter boxes? Main Breakers? (200a), Main Breaker Boxes? Sub Panels? Wire? What size? On wire I just pulled about 125' out of some old conduit. It's 6/2 10/1. For 30 amp would be great, wouldn't be usable for a true 50a hookup, you would need another hot wire. I also have a couple hundred feet of 2/0 I'd have to charge for... that is the bosses stuff. Several hundred feet of #10, #6, etc. I just have to know what you need. Do you have a layout plan? | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 230 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, I still need to know what pieces you need. Meter heads? Meter boxes? Main Breakers? (200a), Main Breaker Boxes? Sub Panels? Wire? What size? Answer= uhhhh, ..........<yeah >! On wire I just pulled about 125' out of some old conduit. It's 6/2 10/1. For 30 amp would be great, wouldn't be usable for a true 50a hookup, you would need another hot wire. Answer= uhhh, ........ok...... I also have a couple hundred feet of 2/0 I'd have to charge for... that is the bosses stuff. Several hundred feet of #10, #6, etc. Answer= hmm I just have to know what you need. Do you have a layout plan? Answer= um I just want hookups (both 50 and 30amp for a bus and a welder and at least one 120 outlet) out closer to my bus........ George where are you? I showed you what/where...... Uncle..... | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 231 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
Chromie Im voting for that! Great post! | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 543 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
Chromie is a good guy, no matter what Fooie and Fids say! Teresa, How far is your bus from the main? Is it going to be 50a or 30a? Why would you need a separate hookup for a welder? 240V 50a will power just about anything you need. (remember, that's 1/4 of what a current house is using). I believe that you need 6/3 8/1 at minimum for anything over 115' for a 50a hookup. I'm sure George or Sean or someone more conversant with codes in California will chime in. Another question, maybe not so important, is how much power will the transformer on your pole handle? The ones we have here at our park are 800a, and the neighbor is pulling power from 3 of them, which limits what we can draw for a few of our spaces. We had to have 2 new transformers put in to service all of our camping spots. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 232 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
How far is your bus from the main? Answer: probably about 50' the way the bird flys Is it going to be 50a or 30a? Answer: Not sure yet on my bus, probably 30amp but I want to be able to use it for other bus nuts that maybe running 50amps Why would you need a separate hookup for a welder? 240V 50a will power just about anything you need. (remember, that's 1/4 of what a current house is using). Answer: because if I have a bus nut here that has a 50amp rig and wants to use a 50amp welder at the same time I want to be set up I believe that you need 6/3 8/1 at minimum for anything over 115' for a 50a hookup. I'm sure George or Sean or someone more conversant with codes in California will chime in. Another question, maybe not so important, is how much power will the transformer on your pole handle? The ones we have here at our park are 800a, and the neighbor is pulling power from 3 of them, which limits what we can draw for a few of our spaces. We had to have 2 new transformers put in to service all of our camping spots. Answer: I guess I will have to check with the power company for this one.... | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 544 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.91.204.67 Rating: N/A |
"Why would you need a separate hookup for a welder? 240V 50a will power just about anything you need. (remember, that's 1/4 of what a current house is using). Answer: because if I have a bus nut here that has a 50amp rig and wants to use a 50amp welder at the same time I want to be set up " That will add complications and cash to the equation. Kind of like this: If you have a 100a main breaker for that sub panel, and it only breaks off to a single sub panel, (50/30/20) and then you want a 240V 50a welder to be hooked into the system... you'll have a problem. One thing you really need to learn to understand is the difference between Volts, Amps and Ohms(resistance). This is why I was asking George to find out from you what you need. Sending you a pile of boxes and wire that you'll never need would be expensive and counter intuitive. Please read up on what electricity does and what it needs to do, or ask your friendly electrician. HE can probably guide you the correct direction, or,,, or,,,, or,,,, ASK GEORGE! | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 233 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
Now dont start throwing things Dallas. Admittedly, I am probably very optimistic here. But really I am considering a few different options in the long term scheme of things. One is running more lines back to my house (I live on the back part of an acre, quite a distance from the main utility power line). I only have 100amp going to my meter right now. Another thing I am considering long term is actually buying the empty acre next door and running lines over there. The one in the back where my bus is now, would only be temporary. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 476 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
4104 manuals are here: http://manuals.lenstudio.com/ The schematics are toward the end of the maintenance manual. Len | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2074 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
You definitely need a 50 amp hookup, or I won't stop by to visit.Oh, wait a minute....you're too far away......uhhh, nevermind. | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 234 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Just an update I got from Kristin. Seems they are going to Lone Pine first and staying at Richard's (?) house who has a Crown for sale. They may buy that. But bad news is: Ron said trani locked up between 1st and 2nd; wouldn't start without 4 batteries...got started -we have headlights, no turn signals and not sure about brake lights. Brakes in rear were already adjusted properly. Engine is purring along! | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 707 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.128.245 Rating: N/A |
RULE- When you dislodge a Gremlin from it's residence they usually find a new place in the same neighborhood..! . . . OR as on "Mechanic" I know used to say, "If a bigger hammer won't fix it... then you got 'lectrical problems..!! | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1231 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.68.214.234 Rating: |
Ron & Kristen's 4106 has the batteries "grounded" to the aluminum angle at the edge of the battery box door frame. This piece runs from the bottom of the bay to the top, along the outside edge, and is riveted to the aluminum skin on the back of the bay. All of the bus current has to travel thru this one piece of skin to get to the rest of the bus. Ron was very receptive to running a cable from this connection to the engine-frame ground. The no-reverse was due to corrosion between the solenoid and the trans, the no-charge was actually a "shorted" wire added by the PO. Shorted is in quotes, because if it was actually shorted, it would have burned because of no fuse. Several studs in the main junction box with three or more wires on them had the top nut tight, but the nuts and terminals underneath were loose. The rebuilt starter had a stripped out hole for the screw making the connection of one field wire plus one brush pigtail, which was part of the reason it didn't want to start reliably. Many thanks to Dallas who scanned the manual and posted it, I would have been lost without it. The complete schematics are on an oversize fold-out, and not part of the manual, however the smaller drawings in the generator and starter sections did the trick. G | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1496 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.224.62.81 Rating: N/A |
Good show George!.... RCB | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 238 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Thanks again uncle! | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1371 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.69.252 Rating: N/A |
Good job, George! I hope the owners of the coach are quick learners because I have a feeling they will have more to deal with. We were lucky enough to get a coach with original wiring that was in pretty good shape. With the manuals, it's not half bad to work on. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 244 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 173.25.102.41 Rating: N/A |
Got this email tonight, seems they still cant get registered here for some reason..... We are heading toward Shasta and either will go on I5 or head toward Klamath Falls, need to resolve latest issue first, with cooling. I don't know why we can't get in to busnut site, yet. Also, can;t seem to find old thread under our sign in.., sorry, could you help? Much love, K and R Ron and Kristin here, will update here to keep it all in order, then will start a new chapter with our user name, Maria V after it gets approved, as it is not at this point. Last day at Mother Teresa's...installed ground cable from batteries to ground cable on engine~ seems to work perfectly. Tried to flush black tank, valve broke off in Kristin's hand..rebuilt hookup. First nite out, went to back to Walmart! left first thing in am, stopped for fuel, trans locked up btween 1st and 2nd, worked out fine once figured out, rest of drive went well. Next day, latch broke on door; Next day, all ran well except for latch on door has now siezed and we spent couple hours trying to get out. Next am, couple hours taking lock apart. Went to start, bus acted like it was out of fuel. Resolved with no clue as to cause. Drove 150 miles (now at Shasta area), buzzer went off and temps began to rise. Parked in McCloud waiting for it to cool. Still heading north..? Want to thank you all for such support, we have a feeling we are done..please come visit in Alaska, (or wherever we end up!) We still may be storing somewhere and flying home. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 2082 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.89.175.194 Rating: N/A |
Teresa, Ian could find nothing about a Maria V in the registration attempts when I forwarded him your PM over at BCM. Software, hardware, wetware? Have them try again? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Teresa (Happycamperbrat)
Registered Member Username: Happycamperbrat Post Number: 247 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 96.251.75.190 Rating: N/A |
I dont know..... I just emailed Kristen and told her to try to register again..... | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1443 Registered: 7-1997 Posted From: 24.239.6.10  Rating: |
Finally found Kristen & Ron. Look in your email inbox or junk mail folder for your registration approval! Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 298 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 75.210.158.33 Rating: N/A |
All right Bossnut!!!. Probably because it had to go all the way up to Canada and back eh. LOL Chromie |
