| Author | Message | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.224.85.37)
Rating: N/A |
As long as I've had my Crown, I've had moderate overheating problems when driving up steep grades at high altitude, or cruzing at 75-80 up at high altitudes. I did a lot to remedy the problem, and every little bit helped... I put in a bigger fan with more blades and steeper pitch, I made sure the system was clean inside and the thermostats were in good shape, and I even added a mister system which worked very well but used water (which was a hassle at the very least). To hopefully save a bit of energy and deliver it to the rear wheels instead of the big fan all the time, I also added an "eddy-current" 2 speed fan clutch that is controlled by water temp... it comes on full speed at 180 and goes to "coast" at 170... but other than very cold days not going fast, the clutch stayed on virtually 100% of the time. Then I added an engine driven AC, and plopped the condenser in front of the engine radiator.... all this and though everything performed fairly happily, I was still not happy at watching the temp gauge creep to 200, thenhaving to turn the misters on for a while, and having it drop again... basically driving by the temp gauge was a big hassle and made me pay way too much attention to the gauges. So I decided to take the bite and have my radiator rebuilt. Looking at my core, it was apparent that I could easily add 2" more thickness to it without causing any mechanical interference problems whatsoever...so I talked to a radiator shop and the guy there told me some interesting things.. First, he told me that radiator technology has changed a LOT since my 1962 radiator was built, and that now with convoluted fins and core tubes, the efficiency of even the same size core as mine would be much greater. He didn't think I even needed to go to a thicker core to get over my problem! Well, I decided to do it anyway, and sent my radiator in for a 2" thicker core. Imagine how I felt after waiting three weeks and paying the guy a grand, that it came back only 7/8" thicker than the old one!! So kind of irate, I called him and asked what went on... he said to not worry, that while he could have used a 2" thicker core we'd agreed upon, that size core was only avaliable in an older style fin design and that the one he did use was actually more efficient due to the design of the tubes and fins, even though it was thinner... Well, what the heck I thought... even as is, it's 25% thicker than it was, so there's probably a good chance it will work, and sending it back will take more time than I had until my next trip... so I installed it the other day and yesterday took my first 500 mile drive... (Oh yeah, I dumped the mister system..gone gone gone......) I'm astounded! The bus NEVER even so much as peeped above 180 during the entire trip (an absolute first for this bus), even on the nastiest grade. In fact, while about halfway up the big nasty 6%er at 3000 feet altitude, the temp hit 180, the fan came on, and it actually cooled right down to 170 WHILE DOING THE GRADE! So I gotta say, the guy was dead right. Not only do I NOT have an overheating problem any longer, it's SO MUCH on the other side of the curve that in the entire 7 hour drive pushing hard, the fan was only on "full" about 10% of the time... meaning I have MUCH MORE COOLING than I need, and also meaning that horsepower is now going to the wheels instead of the fan most of the time... hopefully getting better mileage and definitely going noticably faster up the grades.. Whoopee!!! NO MORE driving by the temp gauge!!! And as of now I thoroughly recommend a new higher tech radiator if you have heating problems that you just can't nail..... | ||
| dgcrockett (66.119.34.39)
Rating: N/A |
Please share the name and address of you radiator fellow! Thanx DC | ||
| vern rainville (68.9.3.37)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, I did the same thing. I went from 3 rows deep to 5 rows deep. The tubes are smaller to disperse heat quicker.Also meaning more tubes. The spacing was 1/2" apart, now they are 3/8" apart, meaning more tubes again. The finn material is different, although I can not remember what it was, but they too disperse heat quicker. I flushed the system twice and filled with distilled water/ antifreeze solution. I am expecting the same results as you. No temperature "sitting", no gauge watching, no mister, and (hopefully) no more over heating! I hope not, I threw $1,500 for mine. Thanx for your post, it is encouraging ! Vern (in RI) | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.48.43)
Rating: N/A |
Ditto here. My Neoplan was in need of a new radiator when I bought it and I decided I had space for a thicker one. I bought mine from General Truck Radiator in Boulder, CO. and the guy tells me I don't need thicker. He brought mine up on his computer (we were on the phone) and tells me he can put 10% more cooling space into the same size core and it would theoretically add about 12% to the capacity. I was sort of skeptical but 2 wks. later got it and immediately noticed the difference. The tubes are closer and have a "wave" to them, slightly narrower but same thickness. I counted them and sure enough, there are 9.8% more tubes, 1 more row. Had 5 rows staggered, now 6. I have not put it to the test yet, but so far he is correct. | ||
| dougthebonifiedbusnut (24.62.99.43)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Gary, What great news for we crown guys. Did you ever concider making the rad longer? Looking at my bus it occures to me that I can make my rad about 18" longer and than ( I know ,I know) I could put the 3 electric fans, saaving all that space. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.224.85.37)
Rating: N/A |
I'll post the name of the radiator guy next week when I get home. He's in New York. Very good guy, and he split the shipping so it wasn't even that bad to send it around the country! Doug, can't imagine making the radiator longer... what a monster rebuilding the fan duct would be! And no need to anyway at this point... Seeya all next week when I get home... Gary | ||
| TWO DOGS (67.209.132.113) Rating: N/A |
any of you rich guys ever looked in a bigtruck junkyard | ||
| John Rigby (24.174.233.93)
Rating: N/A |
Gary Did that includ the tanks?? Orwas this just for the core and you had to use your old tanks? John | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.224.85.37)
Rating: N/A |
2dogs... not many Crown radiators sitting in junkyards, and if they were, they'd be the old fin and tube design. Actually that was one of the first things I did when I got my Crown, 'cause the origional radiator had a hole in it. I actually located a Crown in a junkyard (no easy feat) and got it's radiator for $100. Great deal but it didnt help the cooling a bit.... just kept the road from turning orange with my antifreeze!!! Rich guy? Hardly... I had to save up to get the new radiator...some things you just have to do that way... Actually one of the things I have a lot of fun with is that this time around (I converted a Superior back in the 80's) the internet now exists, virtually every part of my Crown conversion came from the net. In fact, other than the radiator and 9 speed, almost every part of my conversion including the Crown came from ebay. I saved TONS of money on every aspect. Another interesting thing was to buy expensive tools from ebay, use them on the conversion, and when done, sell em again. Most of the tools were sold for the same or more as I bought em for... power planer, air-pop rivet gun, Sata paint sprayer,electric carpet stapler and stretcher...the list goes on. If you take the time and do it right, ebay is just like a giant tool rental store but it's free, and you get to keep the tool as long as you need it!!! oops..i got carried away... Anyway, on my first bus (a Superior which was a pusher), yes I did just go to a truck yard and buy a used but MUCH thicker radiator and on that bus, it cured the overheating tendency perfectly. In the Crowns you dont have much room to mess with things but in bussses that you do, used truck radiators are a very good option. Funny how skoolies and some transits are apparently designed with such minimal cooling systems in the first place. My superior was actually fine until I removed the three interior (under the seats) heater cores, and then it overheated every time I drove it on the freeway. Seems Superior took those interior cores seriously as part of the general scheme, and once removed, the main radiator was no longer emough to keep things under control. Ugh...cheepos... John, I sent my old radiator to the rebuilder... they used some parts of the top tank and made the bottom tank from scratch. They also reused the steel frame, which is pretty necessary to make sure things fit (In the Crowns, the entire radiator "hangs" from the frame above it via two big rubber iso mounts and 5/8" grade 8 bolts) | ||
| vern rainville (68.9.3.37)
Rating: N/A |
Rich guys huh!!!!!!!!! I would just write the check for a new coach if that where the case! I tried the truck junk yard route that you say.....miles away......... no help from the owners, " go look" is all I ever got. Phone bills from the long distant calls to no real avail..... TIME WASTED to locate the yard, part, person to call..... TIME WASTED ! The trip to the bone yards..... TIME WASTED !Most of which had to be done during the work week, again TIME WASTED. I have a small business to run and while TIME WASTED trying to save a buck or two, that far fewer times did not pan out than did. TIME not making $$$$$$ chasing the elusive deal (?). I would much rather trust the professional, just as Gary had done.Two dogs, no disrespect, but you seem to have toooo much time on your hands. You must be retired, and good for you, as I will be the first to admit, I am jealous ! Ebay, the internet, dealers in the know, other fellow busnuts, the boards....that is the way to go! Vern (in RI) | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.39.140)
Rating: N/A |
I have always had a theory on junk yard parts. If the part I need is roughly from the same era as my part, there is no reason to believe that it is in any better condition than mine. A junk yard is the last place I would look for a outdated part. As they say, "Buy cheap, Buy Often". | ||
| TWO DOGS (67.251.50.219) Rating: N/A |
yep...I'm retired..kinda..am disabled..yep,have 'time'...did not mean any disrespect..but a radiator out of a recently wrecked truck,a 'newer' truck would be the way I'd go,'if' I needed one...just has to fit in the required space ..yep...I've got more time than money.. | ||
| Bill Gerrie (216.242.119.221)
Rating: N/A |
Gary Don't forget to post the name of the rad guy. I feel there is a few of us waiting for your responce. Thanks. Bill | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Gary...does this mean my Cummins may overheat when the power gets eventually booosted from 250 to 444 hp? Looks like I will be doing the same thing you have. Thanks for paving the way. CROWNS FOREVER!! | ||
| dougthebonifiedbusnut (24.62.99.43)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Henry I have been meaning to ask, where are you going to put your intercooler. In the same place or in another remote location. | ||
| gary Stadler (68.7.217.217) Rating: N/A |
Just got home. On the way back the engine again never even tried to peep above 180, in fact I timed my fan clutch and it was off about 80% of the time, even going up grades! Im jazzed! While we were right in the middle of Las Vegas on I-15 it was raining like crazy, traffic was moving at about 65, and I noticed a lot of cars ahead evidently trying to get off the freeway at an offramp that goes to the strip (lotsa brakelights). Cautious as I am, I decided to move to the next-to-left lane to give plenty of room to the crazies out there (thank heavens busses are allowed out there!). As I passed the offramp's beginnings I saw the reason for the many cars... a pickup truck sitting very recently crunched and sideways in the right-most lane, and everyone trying to get around him. Evidently a semi in the right lane (almost parallel with me) wasn't paying attention... just as I passed under the bridge, the semi saw the stoppage, crammed on his brakes, smashed another pickup in the lane next to me which in turn smasshed a couple more cars.... christ... I gracefully and quickly veered across the final left lane and into the inner emergency lane to give this amazing dance of destruction plenty of room around me, and as I passed it all there were cars next to me and behind me twirling around like a dance in a demon's ballroom! Unscathed, I continued safely away from it all while I watched the entire freeway come to a mangled stop in my rear mirror.... wow.... ................... Henry: Yup!! ....................... Ok guys, here's the radiator place... Larry foster Discount Truck Radiators toll free 800.443.1322 email: orders@discountradiators.com somewhere in New york.. Give Larry a call. He's a GREAT guy to deal with! | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Gary...we are soos glad you were not involved in that wreck. How much was your driving ability and how much was the handling quality of your Crown Super Coach responsible? Doug... HOPEFULLY... if the bank account holds out, the planned intercooler will take the place of the present air shutters, which are about 2 inches thick and set in front of the radiator. Funny you should ask. On a related note, the air cleaner is PLANNED to be mounted in the kitchen base cabinet INSIDE the coach. The actual air inlet will be outside on the side. Intake air roar noise is going to be a problem. I am working on that. May be no real solution. The exhaust is planned to run out of the planned turbo, run thru a short stack, then a short... ...muffler, then a short spark arrestor, then turn downwards and dump out just in front of the rear drivers. The starting batteries will be moved to the other side of the mill... ..just in front of the factory fuel tank. The battery cables will actually be shorter. The space where the air cleaner used to be will be filled up by the planned sunken tub/shower. Anyway, that is the plan. Wish me luck. I need to get going with the conversion, but I do NOT want to spend the estimated $25K to do sooss. Gary...thanks for the info about the radiator guy back East. CROWNS FOREVER!!!  Henry of CJ |