| Author | Message | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (64.166.108.221)
Rating: N/A |
Well I've done it. After much tinkering with my stix-n-staples coach I found this seductive Bus in Santa Barbara that I just had to have. An itroduction, I am Juan Navarro, 50, mechanical engineer employed for the past 28 years in the aerospace and defense industry, working on my masters to get a part time teaching gig, where my wife and I will get time to go on the road with the 4104. We bought the coach three weeks ago and it's holding down the driveway very well. In preparation for this, my first post, I read all the archived posts related to power train, electricals, and almost all the others, It took almost all my spare time and then some. Very interesting and informative stuff. the coach description is as follows: 1953 PD4104148, (if any one could supply info on this bus it would be most appreciated). The bus, as I understand was converted between 1987 and 1997, I thought I had the story straight, but after reading the details and facts, I cannot rely on anything that was told to me. Anyway, the coach is completely converted and was in turnkey condition to hit the road. It is complete with rear bedroom with comfort mattress with dual air controls, full china toilet and tub, washer and drier, dish washer, trash compactor, new leather captain and co pilot chairs, as well as sofabed and recliner, micro, convection, fantastic fans, twin airs, rear camera and more. underneath it has fiberglass/wood tanks, 2500W. trace inverter w/remote link, 7K onan genset with 22 hrs, rebuilt 6-71 with jakes and rebuilt allison V730r with retarder, 8 new air bags, new brakes, air lines, alcoas and new 12R-22.5 Khumo tires. Outside it has front top and bottom caps, rear cap, engine cover, two windows per side, and new IMRON white paint with a tri-color stripe along the sides The drive from santa Barbara to Corona was exhilarating to say the least, until I hit the mountains (read hill), around camarillo, was going up about 15MPH. not wanting to screw up my new toy, did not want to downshift manually until I learned how to drive it and knew what I had. I think I am set for the road. EXCEPT! (I hate that word), In reading the posts I have concluded the following: 1 I am underpowered, (and understatement). 2 With the larger tires, and the automatic trannie It is not the most efficient combo. 3 All the lights are doing something very peculiar, when the emerg. flashers were turned on the coach was flashing like a xmas tree, every light independently of another. the headlamps are very dim. Other than that I think I'll be OK. These are my thoughts and plans, for 1 and 2 above, yesterday I bought a silver 6V92TA complete with cradle, radiator, and muffler. The fellow is looking for the jakes also to install on the new engine. For 3 I have to trace all the grounds for all the electricals, as I know that aluminum is not necessary a good electrical conductor after a few years of use and corrosion. I hope the new engine fits the already converted bus with the allison. I also told the fellow that as soon as he gets a v-drive 5 speed manual and / or a 3.73:1 differential, that I will buy those from him. I know I probably left something out. I think this board is great, much respect to the members and their contributions to this great hobby. Any BusNuts close to Corona, CA, please drop me an email, maybe we can meet, my wife owns a restaurant in Norco with parking for a bus, or two. Last thoughts, I was disappointed to find out the limitations in towing of the 4104. I tow a 27ft SeaRay boat that tips the scales shy of 10K wet. Will have to analyze the craddle/bulkhead/roof struts to see if I can make any improvements to the hitch, I will recruit help from my colleages in the stress and analysis group at work, can't see a better use for all that expensive analysis software. for the overall length limitations, I will be about 68 ft or so, after I move the boat forward on the trailer, make the bow pulpit removable and cut about two feet off the tonge of the trailer add electric hydraulic brakes and move the tridem axles forward to get about 400 lb tonge weight. If all this fails, I guess I can add about a two foot trailer behind the boat to fall in the 75ft max rules, Thanks to all of you for the contributions now on the archives. Juan Navarro, 4104 jjnavarro@msn.com | ||
| Kirby (12.77.245.39) Rating: N/A |
Juan, congratulations on your 4104. My wife and I are the proud owners of a 1959 4104 and have been very happy with it. I replaced the original engine with an 8V71 with V730 transmission. If you want to see how to make more room for an engine, look at the photos showing the bulkhead and reinforcement at http://home.att.net/~kirbybus1/ Good luck with your plans. Kirby | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (64.171.77.197)
Rating: N/A |
Kirby, Very nice! How is the drive train holding up with the 8V71? how is the efficiency? I happened onto your website a couple of weeks ago and thought your work was superb. I will be painting and powder coating accessories on my 6V92 the same color as your white engine, I've seen some white detroits on boats and they look terrific. What is the sound proofing material in your engine bay? Juan | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.34)
Rating: N/A |
Juan-- Welcome to the world of busnuts! The coach you bought sounds very nice, but the drivetrain can be a really big issue. It is a lot of work to fit that 6V92TA in your bus, and the differencial and housing will have to be changed to accomodate the new angle of the upgraded drivetrain. Or perhaps this was already done when the V730 was installed? In any case, if you must go for more power you might consider looking for an inline 6-71TA-- this engine will fit easier in your existing cradle and can easily put out 300HP. We have at least one reader/poster of this group that is making the 6-71TA upgrade but I have not heard of his progress lately. A lot of other people have come to the conclusion that it is better live with the 6-71 than to go through the trouble and expense of changing out the engine-- I agree with them, and you might consider keeping this one as is and just buying a coach with a bigger engine in the future. Good luck! --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (64.166.110.223)
Rating: N/A |
Geoff, Thank you for the welcome, The reason for choosing the 6V92 was that I have not found a 6-71T and do not want to be without a bus for too long while I dis-assemble the current engine to change pistons, cams, blower gears etc. as we are planning a Baja trip towards the end of Summer. I believe that most of the work has been done with the swap to the V730 already, bulkhead, and differential, excellent work by the previous owner. There is no vibration in the drive line and the bus runs at 70mph on the flats. I am also contemplating going with a manual transmission. I heard that there are some v drive 5 speeds but I am still researching that possibility. A new bus? In the future, would like to stay with 35ft max length, 33 ft would be ideal for the towing issue. 30 ft would be too small for us for our extended trips when we retire. Thanks again, Juan 4104 | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
Juan - Welcome aboard! PD4104-148 was delivered new in May of 1953 as fleet number C-639 to Central Greyhound Lines of Cleveland, OH. So you can truthfully tell folk you have a gen-u-wine retired Hound! As for the 4104 being slow. . . just remember the story of the tortoise and the hare - and you've got a tortoise!! For some help with your shifting of the automatic, check out my suggestions in the "Articles of Interest" section off the main BNO webpage. Are you also a memeber of the GMC busnuts group over on Yahoo?? Lots of good info there, and Geoff, who's already responded to you, is one of the best DDA gurus around! HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (67.113.214.142)
Rating: N/A |
RJ, Thank you for the welcome. It is good to know that the 04-148 was a 'Hound, it just wants to go. The coach is ok for now on the power and speed, (65 is fine for me), The coach will take some hills at about 20mph unloaded, but I am concerned when I put the boat behind it with all the camping supplies and head to Powell with Cajon Pass, Baker grade, and Hurricane, in the way, I may not be able to maintain a safe speed going up. I am practicing your suggestions on shifting the V730 and I am getting a bit more confident. I will look into the GMC busnuts group on yahoo Thanks again, Juan | ||
| FAST FRED (65.154.177.179) Rating: N/A |
The only 5 speeds I've heard of were part of a slushpump , not a manual. FAST FRED | ||
| Doug (68.82.242.218) Rating: N/A |
I forget what a normal 6-7111 makes...210 hp? add a auto and your probably dropping 20% at the rear wheels and thats if everything is 100% in engine and tranny I pull my F-150 flat and it does just fine but 10k and add tongue weight I would be leary...they are overbuilt but they were never intended to ahve a trailer hanging on them. If you do the engine swap....be certain to overcool it .....especially if your going to be hauling that boat. | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (64.166.108.172)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks FF and Doug, Will stay with the V730 for now and see how it does with the 6V92TA. I bought the engine, cradle, and the big radiator that comes with the 6V92. I also bought a new air clutch for the engine's fan and will add pyro gauges for the exhaust. Before I install every thing I will replace the main and rod bearings, oil and water pumps and as many seals I can get to. Juan | ||
| Dale MC8 (66.81.143.63)
Rating: N/A |
"for the overall length limitations, I will be about 68 ft or so, after I move the boat forward on the trailer, make the bow pulpit removable and cut about two feet off the tonge of the trailer add electric hydraulic brakes and move the tridem axles forward to get about 400 lb tonge weight. If all this fails, I guess I can add about a two foot trailer behind the boat to fall in the 75ft max rules," Juan, I'm concerned about this statement. I think the max length is 65' in Calif. Longer in some sparsely populated states and shorter in some of the NE/New England states. Could be wrong, have been before, but check it out. HTH Dale | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (64.166.108.172)
Rating: N/A |
Dale, I am also concerned, I will be comunicating with Caltrans, the CA department that rules the size limitations for vehicles in CA. I have an email address for one of the officials and will be presenting my case to him. the max length with a tractor and trailer is 65 ft. the max with a tractor and two trailers is 75ft. Caltrans issues an annual permit for recreation vehicles (trailers) that are over 8.5 ft wide but under 10 ft and that permit is about $150 for the year. Our boat is 8.5ft wide so it does not require a over width permit. I do not know if such a permit is available for a recreation vehicle that is 3 ft over max length, in the tractor and single trailer category. Hope there is. The alternatives I have are to tow a small trailer behind the boat to fall in the 75ft category, or replace the boat with a smaller one. The latter is not a good choice, as we bought the boat with twin engines for safety while we cruise the inland waterway in Alaska. For the next few years before we retire, I can pull the boat with my old Dodge/Cummins rig and have my son-in-law drive the coach to Powell and Baja. When we retire, it will only be my Wife and maybe some of the grand kids. | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (67.136.81.42)
Rating: N/A |
Double trailers are when you have the first one connected as a 5th wheel, then some States allow a small trailer attached to the 5th wheel trailer, BUT you are still limited to an overall length according to your State of residence AND you are governed by the gross train weight of the towing vehicle too. There are no provisions for 2 tag trailers to be towed as far as I have found so far. How these guys driving 45ft Prevosts with a matching height 3 axle trailer and having a toad with all 4 down hanging on the rear of that get away with it, I don't know, unless there is a permit that covers them or else they just take a chance. Commercial doubles are normally a semi-tractor with 2 trailers, the second one being on a dolly attached with a pintle hook to the rear of the first. Peter. | ||
| Larry Baird (Airhog) (4.10.218.15)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Juan, Nice to have a Busnut so close. I also live in Norco 4 days a week when teaching in Huntington Beach then I'm off to Palm Springs on the week-end. My MC-7 is in the back yard of the house at Norco RV on 3rd street, you can see it from the 15. Today I will be taking it to the college to have Jakes put on but will be back on Wed. night. | ||
| Kirby (12.77.245.212) Rating: N/A |
Juan, the engine compartment insulation is called Temp-Mat and I bought it at a place in Ft. Lauderdale called Bigham Insulation or Bigham Industries, something like that. It is covered by a fireproof fiberglass material which I riveted in place with large-head pop rivets to help hold the insulation in place. It really cut down on the noise and heat inside the bus. You mentioned having access to stress and analysis equipment/calculations, etc. so I have a question (and if anyone else out there has the answer, feel free to add a post). Let's say you are driving down a road in your bus, towing a trailer with say, 200 lbs of tongue weight on the pindle mounted on or about the bumper (as an example). And let's say there is road construction (I know, that hardly ever happens) and all of a sudden the rear wheels encounter a 4-inch rise of new pavement, at a velocity of, say 30 mph. Or, conversely, the vehicle is on new pavement already and a drop to the old pavement is experienced....what would be the load on the pindle? Please note, I used round numbers in this question. I'm just curious. Also, I have some question on whether a 4104 is suited for towing a trailer (as opposed to towing a toad with tow bar). | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (64.166.111.112)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys for the posts, Peter, I may have to get a smaller boat to get in the 65 ft length. Would love to get a 33ft Wonderlodge. Larry, I drive by Norco RV everyday on the 15 on my way to Duarte. My bus is on Citron street just east of Buena Vista along side the big boat. Kirby, Will look for the material for the engine area. Your question can be translated simply as: what is the mass of a 200lb weight accelerating vertically at 30mph for 4 inches? Consider that the entire mass of the engine, trans and accessories will be experiencing the same acceleration. Will work on it as soon as I get back to my office, I'm out of town, (Seattle) until Friday Juan | ||
| geranorthstar (66.1.43.112)
Rating: N/A |
hi Juan I am Gerardo Iam 28 years old I am into the gems and minerals and looking to buy i brought a 53 4104 from this old caople need some work but i bought new batteries and rebuild the starter mine question is do you know of any club in the southwest that i can belong for support and frienship for 4104 also how do i get all the history of mine soon to be bus ? thank you for all and happy driving your new toy !!! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
Gerado - Post the VIN number of your 4104 and I'll look it up in my delivery roster. RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Gelecamion (Gelecamion) (66.1.43.112)
Rating: N/A |
Rj long thank you the number reads PD 4104 4058 | ||
| ggypsyg (65.1.55.153)
Rating: N/A |
just finished the last shake down debuging run with our 04...the 671ta ddecII is the only way to go the 6v92 we put in our 06 accelerated nearly exactly the same as this 671ta..after 3000 miles mpg was 10.33,for best run 1000 miles from Louisana to the west side of Texas on I10 12.44...has lots of power. going by DD thursday to turn the HP down from 300 to 280..Hope that will increase mileage.the 92 in our 06 would get 6 on a good day and 4 to 5 in uphill heavily loaded...would do this swap again in a minuite..love the way it goes...If I could just keep my foot out of it LOL..RDW4104...gg | ||
| Juan Navarro (Jnavarro) (205.216.149.102)
Rating: N/A |
Hey, Gerardo, Congratulations on your '53!. Where are you in the west coast, give me a call to swap bus stories. ggypsyg, I would really like to know more about your bus and that 6-71TA, with DDECII. If you have time please give me a call before I get started on this 6V92 swap. Thanks, Juan Navarro 909 283 3924 | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
PD4104-4058 was delivered new as fleet number 5906 in April of 1959 to The Short Line of Providence, RI. So your coach is a 1959 model, NOT a 1953. (1953 was the first year of production of the 4104s, they were built up until 1960.) HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Gelecamion (Gelecamion) (66.1.43.112)
Rating: N/A |
rj long thank you for than info now i know a little bit more about that 4104 the body is nice is brown and cream with original aluminum color but i am thinking of paintining diferent Juan  and everione else friends of the buses ) I LIve in Arizona Tucson today was 87degres hot it is not nice but o well | ||
| Gelecamion (Gelecamion) (66.1.43.112)
Rating: |
Rj long please can you resherh one morte time mine bus this is gerardo the numver that i gave you was wrong the bus is a PD 4104 4068 Also any body interested and a shel PD 4103 1257 can you reserh that one two please you can write directly to gelecamion | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
PD4104-4068 was delivered new in April of 1959 as fleet number 252 to Hudson Transit Corp of Harriman, NY. PD4103-1257 was delivered new in June of 1952 as fleet number K-2123 to Pacific Greyhound Lines of San Francisco, CA RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno Ca | ||
| Gelecamion (Gelecamion) (66.1.43.112)
Rating: N/A |
thank you RJ how do you know all this ? well in nice to know that the bus is a 59 istead of a 53 i guess thank you again | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
How do I know all this?? 25+ years in the bus industry - it's all memorized!! LOL Seriously, I have a binder in the bookcase next to my computer with the info, along with a bunch of other bus-related publications. RJ | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.209.232)
Rating: N/A |
Hey RJ! Wouldn't it be funny if they found out you just make it up? oops.... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (66.229.97.200)
Rating: N/A |
Hey BW - May the GMC gods look kindly upon thee and thy long-distance phone company on wheels. . . ROFLMAO! RJ | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.208.108)
Rating: N/A |
Thank you for the spiritual support! yup, and a good thing too, what with that Detroit Diesel and Allison automatic back there! too many wheaties this morning... happy coaching! buswarrior MC8 | ||
| Gelecamion (Gelecamion) (66.1.43.112)
Rating: N/A |
hi juan how are you i im working on an oil leak that i made when stalling the starter the bus turnes over for a couple of seconds that is a good sign please write back at northstarazul@yahoo.com to tell you all about it |
