| Author | Message | ||
| Russell Beam (Rcbeam)
Registered Member Username: Rcbeam Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 74.131.51.228  Rating: N/A |
I am at the point of planning my skinning and window installations. Hopefully while it is still hot so I've only the rest of July, August and some maybe in Sept. I just cannot get my brain around all of this. I've done searches and read lots of posts, mostly about silkaflex. I can't quite get the work flow down in my head and don't want to get the cart before the horse and not figure it out until I've already done something wrong. What I want to do is remove all of my MC8 windows. Skin over the window openings and then install probably RV windows. I want windows that open and with screens and I'd like them all to look the same outside except for some difference in sizes. I want two in the bedroom, one small one in the bathroom on one side, one small one in the kitchen at the sink, one or two larger ones on the street side living room, one larger one at the kitchen table curb side, and two large ones curb side living room. (Yes, I want to be able to see out and open windows.) Is my flow to: 1) remove windows; 2) reskin complete sides; 3) cut holes for new windows; (do the new windows need metal framework on all sides?) If so do I build my metal frame work and install before I reskin? On reskinning can I really use an adhesive only, like silkaflex? I really don't want to rivet. Also can I use aluminum sheets instead of steel? I'm looking for something lighter here. Anyone care to give me some guidance on what THEY did? There seems to be SO many decisions to this. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1560 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.194.61  Rating: N/A |
Hi Russell.....a tremendous undertaking...BTDT!!!!  The good news is...it's well worth it. A suggestion or two; the way I did it at least; and would do it again the same way. First, I removed all the skin at the window level; and the windows. Then I determined where I wanted the new windows, put in window support (steel in my case) at each point, front and back of each window. Aluminum just did not appeal to me...for whatever reason...$$$, or whatever, I do not remember. My windows are parallelogram, so the pattern was cut on the table,,,not on the coach. I cut the skin to measure from the front of the rear window to the back of the next (toward the front) window...and so on till I reached the front. (can send you pics of the process if you would like). I used Sikaflex (52 as I recall) then rivets top (each end) and bottom...to match the pattern in the coach. Rivets are not hard to use, but if one does not want them, then so be it. HTH RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1560 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.195.74.7  Rating: N/A |
Having had a number of RV's , the ones with awning windows were vastly superior to any sliders. Double glass will lower the noise if you camp at truck stops , but usually is not sealed well enough to help with HVAC. An inside or outside winter window seal , or double awnings to shade works best. Do it your way! FF | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 524 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: N/A |
Russell If you choose to use aluminum remember you MUST separate the steel and aluminum or you will have a major corrosion problem over time. I even used a layer of duct tape but there is products for this. Steel and aluminum touching each other causes electrolises. Just a warning to avoid problems later after you do all the work. Bill | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 234 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.136.45.34  Rating: N/A |
Russell, A while back, I bought my first bus a 1979 MCI 5C. I saw a bus in a yard of a professional bus to Motor Home converter. I saw a bus with new windows that were installed with aluminum skin around them. The aluminum around the windows was all rinkled. I ask the conveter why the aluminum was that way. He said the person who installed the aluminum did not have the aluminum hot enough so the it would stritch tight after the installation was complete. He said you have to get the aluminum warm maybe with some hot lights to get it to heat up evenly so that it will schrink back evenly. I hope this helps you. I am sure someone else will comment on wheather I an correct or not. I hope so. Good luck. I wish I were doing what you are doing. Roger | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1561 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.101.126 Rating: N/A |
I agree with all of the above...and main reason I chose steel! FWIW RCB | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1481 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.118.153  Rating: N/A |
Lots of work but definitly worth it!! I took the skin from under the gutters loose,the trim below the windows,had to split the window framing as it was welded[spot]together. cleaned all the metal off,cleaned the frameing.sealed the steel with like rusteloum[?] put 2-faced tape on all the steel,took the aluminium sheets cut to size, made sure of the fit,if needed pre-drilled holes,laid it in the sun while doing this,sanded metal,epoxy primed all of it,installed starting at the back to the front with a overlap of about 2" min,not needed if you use continous sheeting tho,started the fastning process in the middle top and bottom and worked my way to the ends and never got any wringles or bow in all of it. take time and be patient. WHEW Gomer | ||
| Russell Beam (Rcbeam)
Registered Member Username: Rcbeam Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 74.131.51.228 Rating: N/A |
RCB, FRED, BILL, ROGER, and GOMER: thx guys for the replies. I posted on the other board and didn't get what I was looking for. You guys gave me a "this is what I did" and that was what I wanted. RCB you and I have the same initials. So do you have the same issue with heating the steel sheets as you do the aluminum? I figure if I can do it between now and the end of August, it'll be hot enough if I lay the sheets in the sun before I mount. I just thought aluminum might be easier and lighter... maybe not. I also wanted to mount with the silkaflex stuff. From what I understand, you use spacers with it and the sheets do not touch the framing anyway, but if it's all steel then I guess no issue with electrolysis. Looks like I've got a lot of planning and coordination to do, as everything seems to revolve around window placement. Now my next question is what size steel sheets do I use on an MC8? Gomer: what size rivits did you use? I just can't afford to do this wrong. Thx again guys. Russell | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 1482 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 76.4.118.153 Rating: N/A |
Russell, Most of the rivets are 3/16 and the ones that I used for the upward seams were 1/4. They make the 3/16 that use a mushroom button that you drive in after popping the rivet. The 1/4 's don't, I used a rivet that pops flush with the top and is easy to work with. I also use a air rivet gun and makes it quick and very tight. The 1/4's has to have more muscle with a unit made like a bolt cutter handle. Harbor Freight usually have the air riveter on sale and will work but not using commercially LOL. I also used .090 gauge metal but have good results with .030-.060 also. that is for aluminium. For steel I never used it.On My coaches I had to drill every 1-1/2 a hole and it was 1/2 up from the edge. On the 4905,I bought 4-12ft sheets and 2-8ft sheets. One of these days I'll be able to figure out how to take and post pictures LOL The price of Aluminium around here is about 2.00 lb. whereas steel is cheaper. Gomer | ||
| Bob Glines (Robertglines1)
Registered Member Username: Robertglines1 Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2010 Posted From: 75.205.99.132 Rating: N/A |
I used 16 guage cold roll sheet seams to hold paint better than mild steel. Tack welded from inside. Bob | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 651 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.13.120  Rating: N/A |
Guys, I've heard a lot of comments on what material to use. I have seen a number of buses that were skinned and some with bad issues. My $ .02 is that if you have a steel (skin) bus, you should use steel and if you have an aluminum bus, use aluminum. The worst problems I've seen were from dissimilar metals causing terrible corrosion. | ||
| Bob Glines (Robertglines1)
Registered Member Username: Robertglines1 Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2010 Posted From: 75.205.113.248 Rating: N/A |
Just wanted to add tried 18 ga and it waved a little on me so I removed and went back to 16 ga tacked from rear about 8 inches apart painted back side also. Insulate insulate insulate. Bob | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1562 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.215.77.93 Rating: N/A |
Russell...I wrote this morning....and again tonite...lost both posts....long ones and detailed.  Sorry. Plan ahead and work carefully. Sika 52 has very short working time. Also, watch expriation date. Call Steve Padgett at Sika USA...very helpful. RCB | ||
| Jim Sanders (Sandy)
Registered Member Username: Sandy Post Number: 81 Registered: 1-2011 Posted From: 69.199.96.250  Rating: N/A |
Hey Guys I own A Flxliner 68 model. Rust in frameing!!!! Replacing...The frame is steel (space Framing) I am finding That Most of the partions is alluumniom.. I have found 2or3 places that had corresion problems (very clearely a retrofit)So i was thinking that the Electrolasis was not the problem I was expting...Or corosion???? Now you guys has got me scared!!!!I can not find any methed the factery used to seperate the alum.. from the steel (I have looked very hard)Can find none) I thought at first they used Anodizing on the alum. Bought a water blaster with steam to clean tar. in some plases it is taking the alum. to bare metal.(no anodising)???? S0 how in h--- did the flx people seperate the metals??????JIM | ||
| Jim Sanders (Sandy)
Registered Member Username: Sandy Post Number: 82 Registered: 1-2011 Posted From: 69.199.96.250 Rating: N/A |
Shoud i have started a new thd with this question If so i am sorry Jim sanders | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1563 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.213.191.130 Rating: N/A |
Jim...just about anything separating the two would suffice...even cardboard, but then, as you have found out, leaks, condensation, etc come into play... (I used Sika 52). PL is also a good product. Just remember to use spacers. ... tile spacers are available in many sizes. In the case of your coach, sounds like nothing was used. Corrosion takes place over a long period of time, usually. FWIW RCB | ||
| Jim Sanders (Sandy)
Registered Member Username: Sandy Post Number: 83 Registered: 1-2011 Posted From: 69.199.96.250 Rating: N/A |
RC My coach built 68 40 years I can find no corresion no where.!!!! when i first started tearing the Bay area (skin) out placess that the P/O had built corresion yes!!! The walls of the bay area was alum. (no corresion) the doors in the rear around the engine dept. Framing rust yes must be rebuilt No CORRESION..... Planes are paint all steel Por 15 | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 644 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.56.244  Rating: N/A |
Jim, that's a real surprise that you found no corrosion in you Holiday Rambler. I took one apart a few years ago and every junction in it was corroded to almost a powder. The skin looked great, but the rest of it weighed probably about half of what it did new. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 842 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15  Rating: N/A |
RE:Steel sheet metal... The Sign industry uses a product called "Paint-Loc", it has been treated with an etching acid to create micro dimples that hold pain like nothing else. ALUMINUM... another sign industry exclusive is http://www.wrisco.com/ they offer pre-finished painted & Anodized panels as well as polished, brushed & semi-gloss panels. These panels ALL have UV coatings that preserve the color or finish decades longer than any other type of paint or pre-painted panel. they've "only" been an industry leader for 50 years & they KNOW what they are doing... wander around their site & have a look! | ||
| Jim Sanders (Sandy)
Registered Member Username: Sandy Post Number: 84 Registered: 1-2011 Posted From: 69.199.96.250 Rating: N/A |
Dal the only thing i am dooing with the rambler is liveing in it. I work on the flx.Jack I know i am going to have to put back all the alum. i have removed. Alum tied to steel frameing is a NO NO. How did Flxible corp do it Nothing between steel and alum. Nothing i can find...... No corrison at all. RUST on the steel YES.NO correson None Heeeeeeellp JIM | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 844 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: N/A |
To prevent the elecrosis (sp) problem you can do what GM did.... where ever there was contact between Aluminum & Steel, they applied a thin layer of Tar. After 48 years my 4106 shows nary a problem because of it. Go to a windshield replacement shop and ask them to sell you a THIN roll of W/S sealer, the 1-inch X 1/16th inch size. It comes in rolls, has a paper masking and it will squish evenly when your rivets are drawn down tight. | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 236 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.136.64.129 Rating: N/A |
Another idea for the allum to steel to prevent correson. There is a product the building industry uses as door and window flasing. It use to be called jiffy seal. It comes in withs of about 6 inches. It is about 1/16" TO 1/8" thick. It is a black tar like material. It comes with a very sticky side and a smooth side. I used it wwhen ever Iinstalled a window or a door. I also use it when building a deck, putting it between the joist and the deck boards to prevent dryrot. It can be cut with a utility knife to abt width without much trouble. Like I said, just an idea. (Message edited by Roger on July 27, 2011) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1564 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.219.167.205 Rating: N/A |
Yep Roger...works fine. Another possibility is cork ...available in rolls of any width and various thickness and has adhesive on one side (or not); I used (use) it through out the entire coach, roof to floor. And is a great sound deadner. The deal with using Sika or some other adhesive is one can avoid rivets (fasteners)if preferred. ...the way Airstreams are built. BUT, use a good heavy bead! Of course, one could use the adhesive on top of cork or other separator, I suppose. FWIWI RCB | ||
| don goldsmith (Bottomacher)
Registered Member Username: Bottomacher Post Number: 286 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 75.253.97.105 Rating: |
Your MC8 has steel framing at the windows,and aluminum siding below and above. Use anything you want, but separate it from the adjoining surfaces with Sika, urethane caulk, or whatever you want. You'll still use aluminum rivets,as the factory did. Nothing is foolproof. Seal the joints as well as possible, stay away from the beach, and hope for the best. You won't live forever, and neither will your bus. |
