| Author | Message | ||
| Rick Cribbins (66.190.246.81)
Rating: N/A |
Hi, I'm looking for an economical way of getting started on owning a bus, with the goal being to convert it myself, or finishing someone elses (Can of worms, I know.). One of the ones I'm looking at buying is this one, but I was hoping I could get a little feedback on what everyone thinks about it. It has the 8V71 engine W/Jake installed & VS2-8 trany. I think this is the 3 speed overdrive one, but I don't know what the 2-8 part means. I don’t know what the milage is. It was owned by Tri-Met in Portland OR. It is the 40' X 102" wide model. I wish it didn’t have the two-door set up though. It is Air equipped, but untested. Tires are about 45%. The Current owner has had it for 3 years and bought it in a local auction. The owner is asking $2500.00. It seemed to cruise just fine at 60 mph on the short road test I took and the engine stopped smoking within a couple minutes of start up before driving and did not smoke after driving for a ½ hour. It has been sitting for about a year before I stopped and I was impressed with the fact that it started (25 sec. crank-time) after about 20 minutes of charging off of an S-10 Blazer. The next day I went back and looked at it, it started, but had to crank a little longer (35 sec.) without the jumpers. It started after holding the foot feed open just a hair and smoked for about 4 minutes before it cleared, it also loped a bit during this time. It seemed to have plenty of “poop” on the road test! I have also found a 1961 GMC Fishbowl, 35' X 8', single door, 6V71 w/a 4 spd manual trany and is geared for 65 mph. 8 to 10 mpg sound about right?. Asking price on this one is $2500 as well, and is probably in better physical shape, but less power and no Jake. I like the look of this one better, but it is 1300 miles away. Plus another $800.00 in fuel to drive it home I bet. On the 1974: 1) Could the longer crank be caused by injector bleed down or just batteries? 2) What kind of economy would this set up average, assuming it is geared for the hi-way? 3) What are the “Cons” of this set up? 4) What are the “Pros” of this set up? 5) What is the reputation of these engines? 6) What about the trany? 7) What is the “VS2-8" trany aside from an Allison w/OD? 8) Any other advise? Or should I just hold out and keep looking for a 4104? One of my all time favorites! Thank you for any light anyone can shed on this for me. Rick Cribbins | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.68)
Rating: N/A |
I will give you some opinionated input: First off the VS2-8 transmission is my favorite. It is called a 2 speed, but acts like a three speed when it locks out the torque converter. They are considered bulletproof by most who have used them, parts are all quite available also, as is the DD8V-71 engine. I went to considerable expense to convert my GMC 4905 from stick to VS2-8, and was always pleased that I did it that way. Mileage on mine was around 9 mpg, cruising in the 70's. I DD two stroke needs FULLY charged batteries to start, and then they tend to start "instantly". Where you hold the throttle is of no consequence whatever, since they are governed to give full fuel while cranking, besides if you have an air throttle and there is no air, you are just wasting your right foot movement. You are giving up some baggage space on the Flx, it is up to you to determine your needs. Scott Whitney has a similar set up, I am sure he will chime in here with his experiences with a Flx. He travels lots and I have never heard him complain about his bus. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.68)
Rating: N/A |
I forgot: The VS2-8 means simply it was a V drive tranny, 2 speed, and for a 8 cyl engine. | ||
| Rick Cribbins (66.190.246.81)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks Don. Sorry, foot-feed is misleading. We started the bus from the rear, and as it was cranking (And smoking) but not starting, the owner reached over and cracked the throttle open by hand, and it lit off and cleared itself. It was acting like it wanted to start, just had a hitch in it's git up! What weight was your 4905? What was the rear end gear ratio? Thanks again, Rick | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.68)
Rating: N/A |
My 4905 weight was "excessive". The stock rear end ratio of 4 1/8 to one was used. This ratio made it "overgeared" by many converters standard, I loved it. The Flx is geared for much lower speeds I believe. | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.30)
Rating: N/A |
#8-- If you want a Fishbowl, look for one that is already converted and save yourself thousands of dollars and hundreds of conversion hours. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.34) Rating: N/A |
Howdy. Ok, yes I have owned a sister bus to this bus for several years now and am overall quite pleased with it - **for my current needs** as a work bus, that also serves as my full-time home. The front four feet are my workshop. Mine is also a 1974 Flxible from Tri-met so my guess is that they are identical. Get the serial number and have a look here: http://www.omot.org/roster/flxlist/53102.html About half way down the page, you will see an entry describing where your bus was sold to Tri-Met. Mine was bus number 162. The seller's asking price is within reason, depending on condition and current state conversion, seat removal, if any etc. I bought mine with no seats, no A/C, no heater blowers, and no inner wall siding to have to remove. I saw this as a benefit. I paid under two bills for it. 1) Could the longer crank be caused by injector bleed down or just batteries? I think Geoff and Don answered this one. 2) What kind of economy would this set up average, assuming it is geared for the hi-way? About 5-6mpg regardless of how fast you drive or what you tow, in my experience. YMMV. Check on the dash board near the front entry door and write down the axle ratio. It is probably geared at 6-1/7th. Which means you will probably do about 62-65mph max depend on the governor setting. 3) What are the “Cons” of this set up? No baggage bays. No storage bays. No luggage compartments. Oh yeah, and no baggage bays. 4) What are the “Pros” of this set up? Price. No need to raise roof. Wide body, full length. Decent low-profile look. Flat glass on windshield cheap to replace. Well built structure and chassis. Aluminum & steel mix for strength and weight. Oh yeah, and price. 5) What is the reputation of these engines? Old technology dating way back to before when even Don was born. Well maybe not that far back. . .  but solid and dependable and keeps on ticking, like Don. 6) What about the trany? As Don says, bullet proof. I have heard of people having to do repairs on them, but mine just goes and goes. Always shifts well. (Hey Don, one of these days I will get down your way so you can show me that tranny-mod you did!) 7) What is the “VS2-8" trany aside from an Allison w/OD? Don, explained it. When you drive it, it feels like a three speed. 8) Any other advise? Consider long and hard how you intend to use the bus. I assume this is to convert to an RV? If so, can you live without baggage bays? Are you willing to spend oooodles of time welding up a truss system underneath to give you some storage, and places to put water tanks, propane, genset etc.? Or hang stuff from threaded rod from the plywood floor? Before you buy it, look under the skirting and visualize how much work it will be to safely attach everything you intend to put there. When you look under my bus, it looks like a whole new section from axle to axle has been added. I put my fresh tank under the bed, btwn wheel wells, in the rear. All other systems and storag are below deck in a seriously pain-in-the-ass-to-build truss system of C-channel and square tubing. You could quick-and-dirty a converions by bunging all this stuff above floor level inside. But you will loose a lot of interior room by doing so. I pulled my entire floor up in order to build this sub-floor area. Highway coaches are a lot cheaper now than when I bought my transit. A highway coach is in my future, at some point. Did I mention I want baggage bays? I created additional cargo area on my roof by building an 8'x12' platform complete with crane and hoist to get crap up there. I use it to haul satellite dishes and misc. other gear. Works for me now, and is fun to use as a party deck. I joke that it is my heli-pad. Check out my website for some pics. I have more pics than are on the site, but I am swamped and never have time to update the hobby portion of my site anymore.  http://www.dustyfoot.com If you have more questions, fire away. Scott | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
I will have you know Scott, that design is even older than I am!! | ||
| Rick Cribbins (66.190.246.81)
Rating: N/A |
Hi everyone! Thanks for the great input! Scott, I had already stumbled upon your website when I did my first search for the critter. Very nice site, it's one of my favorites now. When I first saw the pictures of your bus, I thought I was looking at the one I'm thinking about. Even the paint is still the same! Looking at your underfloor construction work actually caused me to pause and rethink this idea. That's hard to do my wife says. Something about about me, sheep and something about getting an idea in my head...oops, it's gone now, I can't remember what she said. Lol! I checked the link and it was #122, SN#59566. I found part of the "22" still on the outside. And I think it was 6 1/7 on the tag. Bummer. One of my main incentives is to get a little better economy. Maybe not what I do with a 1996 Chevy Suburban pulling a trailer, 13 MPG on the average trip, but not 1/2 or less. But with four kids, a wife, a dog and all the crap they reguire for trips, the extra space would be great! Is there anyway of increasing the economy on this critter? Can the rear end gear ratio be improved? Maybe I should look for a different canidate. I just like the tempting "foot in the door" price of this one, that and the fact that it has a Jake (Love that sound!) and it's located here in Astoria OR, where we live. What are the busses that I keep reading about that get 13-14 mpg? Thanks again, Rick | ||
| Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37) Rating: N/A |
VW microbusses? The all aluminum GM over the road coaches will do 9 to 11 depending on several factors. Generally speaking, fuel economy and bus are two terms that usually aren't used together. With diesel fuel at $2 a gallon, you'd better confront the fact that it will cost you 33 cents a mile just for the fuel to drive your bus, and accept it. Changing the rear end gear ratio is the best way to improve fuel economy, up to a point. You sacrafice hill climbing ability and acceleration in the process. There is room to add a brownie-style overdrive gearbox between the transmission and the axle. The challenge is finding a suitable unit and making a mounting cradle extension for it, plus have a pair of drivelines made up. If this coach hasn't been converted, I'd be wary of spending $2500 on it. I was at the auction when they sold off these coaches, and they went for less than $1000 each in quantity one. Tires not included. If the rear axle is sitting on two tires instead of four (the inside duals having been removed) then it probably has the tires on it that it was sold with. Those were bald. If you can scrape up some more money, it's a buyers market for MC9s. Transit busses are dirt cheap because of that. Some other things to add about transits - one advantage they have, which most people don't realize, is that they turn on a dime. This can be quite important in crowded RV park situations. Transits also tend to have larger braking systems than highway coaches. Transits tend to be built much stronger than highway coaches. They aren't as tall, which means you can get into more places with them. The interior height is usually six and a half feet, and a roof raise isn't necessary. Between school busses, transits and intercity coaches each has advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes I wish I had a highway coach, sometimes I wish I had a school bus. The transit works for me. | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.96.98) Rating: N/A |
I had this decision to make a year ago...why buy a bus that you have to change EVERYTHING...you will be glad you bought a bus that has bays !!!the buses that get the best mileage are the 4104's,course the 4106 has more power 8v71..but less fuel mileage...both LOOK good...the transit ,well ...will never have "looks"...the MCI's are nice,about8,000 for a cheap one...I think if I were you...I'd spend more money on the coach you buy...you can get a 'cheaper bus'...like you are thinking...but it will always be a "cheaper bus"...SAVE MORE MONEY...buy a better one to start with... | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.26)
Rating: N/A |
Hold on now, a guy with an Eagle talking about looks?? What was that old saying about the pot calling the kettle black? | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.26)
Rating: N/A |
Another option, with that gearing and that bus, just put your crap in a trailer, and pull it behind the bus! | ||
| TWO DOGS (4.227.116.134) Rating: N/A |
my eagle is beautiful....you dipshit.. what did the Dr. say ??? | ||
| TWO DOGS (65.179.208.197) Rating: N/A |
If I had four kids...I think the guy said that....I'd make a trapdoor in the living room & the front bay would be a bedroom for at least two of them | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.40) Rating: N/A |
Phil said: "Some other things to add about transits - one advantage they have, which most people don't realize, is that they turn on a dime." Except in the case of this Flxible transit, it does not turn on a dime. But that Fish probably does. I need the back fourty to turn around. The extra six inches in width makes a big difference. Turning radius as per da book on this bus is 41' That is RADIUS. Meaning you need 82' to make a circle. If it doesn't have power steering, like mine doesn't, be prepared for a good workout in tight spots. Hauling crap in a trailer is a possibility if you don't need a toad, or can get both toad and junk into the trailer. Of course, what to do with a trailer when you arrive at a campground is a hassle, especially if your only means of moving the trailer is with the bus. I am not trying to sway you away from this bus. It is a good bus, don't get me wrong. I don't regret buying mine at all, and I will see it thru to complete conversion. But the market is different now than it was when I bought mine. And I would give some serious consideration to some of the inexpensive highway coaches available. But again, it really comes down to how you intend to use the bus. Also, you should be aware that the price of the bus chassis will probably be far less than you will spend on the conversion phase. Converting a bus can nickle and dime you to death, even if you do a rudimentary conversion with plain vanilla materials. So if you are going to spend the money converting, just make sure you will be happy with the shell in the end. Also, you might do some looking for an RTS. They have quasi-baggage bays and you don't have to raise the roof. They do turn on a dime, and have modern powertrains. Made of stainless steel and nice looking. You could probably quick-and-dirty a conversion in an RTS a lot faster than you could in the Flx due to having some underfloor space to work with from the get-go. An RTS in good condition will probably cost you about half way btwn the highway coach and the Flx, so might be a compromise. Scott | ||
| charles seaton (205.183.220.106) Rating: N/A |
The 35' GM 4-speed you're thinking of would proably be a suburban. Luggage bays yes. headroom only in the center aisle. seats are placed on raised platforms. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.81)
Rating: N/A |
Yeah Scott, I thought the RTS is about the best looking bus out there. Two dogs does not share that admiration apparently. | ||
| TWO DOGS (4.227.117.161) Rating: N/A |
If I did I would have bought a rts...but...bays are REAL important...to me anyway....why spend all that time yankee engineering something,when it's ready made,by the factory | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.23)
Rating: N/A |
You should have shopped longer Two Dogs, the king of baggage bays is the GMC 4905 with 408 cubic feet, much more than the toothbrush storage space in an Eagle. If you notice, they do that by eliminating the dumb axle that uses up a whole baggage compartment. Don't dispair though, many Eagle owners have figured that out, eliminated the dumb axle, and then they get that superior ride the two axle bus crowd enjoys - as well as more baggage space. | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.80.174) Rating: N/A |
wouldn't trade my Eagle for two 4905's or your stick & staple | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
Aw shucks Two Dogs, thought I had you all primed to trade it off. | ||
| Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37) Rating: N/A |
Scott, I think my Flyer is in the 39 foot radius range, but I'd have to check the manual to see what it is speced at. Believe it or not, that is "turning on a dime." My F150 2 wheel drive pickup won't turn in a circle equal to twice it's length. As for power steering, most transit agencies started ordering busses with it in 1976 when women started to drive city busses. Some started ordering it even earlier. I'm surprised your Flex doesn't have it, as Portland prides itself on being more progressive than most other cities. Then again, I didn't see a whole lot of women driving the routes that used the 100 series coaches. You'd be envious of the power steering on my Flyer. The pump is shaft driven from the engine, so there's no slippage that you can feel through the wheel. You turn the steering wheel and the front wheels respond without effort or noise. Really nice. Of course, it still have the huge transit bus steering wheel (non-tilt or telescope, but when I can afford a new steering column it's on the list of things to do) in case the pump ever dies while driving down the road. By the way, does your bus have maxi spring brakes or the umbrella handle driveline brake? |