| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 152.121.17.253 Rating: N/A |
Greetings Ya'll, I've lurked around this forum a decade, dreaming of a bus. Ultimately, there is no bus and I settled on a 72 REVCON. Along the way I've come to appreciate the difference between a well-engineeed RV (buses, GMC MH, Revcon, Vogue) and crappy RV's (most of the others). I needed a place to put some these discoveries so I made a blog- www.oldrv.net I'm working on an article comparing the cost of shiny new plastic peices of crap with well a made older RV or buses. I see bus prices have fallen quite a bit since the last time i daydreamed. So, let's take a real workd scenario, a retired guy who wants to really travel for a couple years has a budget of $50K- He could get a fairly new class A, a slightly newer Class C, or 20-30 year old conversion- if he finds the conversion for $40K and sets aside $10k for emergencies and things the seller lied about, would that be good use of his funds? Is $40K too little to get a decent, dependable bus already converted? For the same $40k he could find a Vogue or a Monaco in the used market a few years newer than the bus. Would that be a better choice? What if he only want to spend $20K? At what price point would he be beter off looking for a stick and staple leaky box? | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 622 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
Dave, I would think you could find a good bus for a great deal less than your 40K price. Granted I looked for quite a while but I paid 10,500 for mine. All the systems were there except the freshwater tank and pump. I replaced the carpet and wallpaper, put 6 tires on it and replaced the seals in the blower. Been driving it for 5 years now and haver less than 20K total in it. Knock on wood no major breakdowns so far. The detroit has 40K on an inframe so it's pretty fresh and my 15KW gen has 4000 hours on it. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1208 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
Times are tuff in the bus market here in the Bullhead City Az on the c-list a 1982 Prevost is listed at 30 grand I know you can buy the bus for 9 grand | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2121 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
Unless you have the experience, talent, mechanical ability,and can do your own repairs, OR have the money to pay to have it done as long as you own a bus conversion.......just stick with a regular sticks and staples, and trade up or down as budget allows. Converting or owning a bus is not for faint of heart. Look at some of the issues if, say you are 2000 miles from home and the engine goes_ 15 to 20 thousand$$$$ for a replacement, or transmission, tire,s, etc... We see these issues on here frequently. It takes special people to own and maintain these. | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 152.121.17.253 Rating: N/A |
>> "Look at some of the issues if, say you are 2000 miles from home and the engine goes_ 15 to 20 thousand$$$$ for a replacement" Oviously it's not for everyone. But I'm assuming not everyone on his board, driving their bus all over the country has a $15K emergency fund to swap and engine. And let's say our theoretical retiree is mechanical enough to learn and perform the PM. What is the liklihood he will smoke an engine over the course of 100,000 miles? | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1209 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
My sister blew her V10 Ford in a MH cost her 10,123.00 for a new engine at a Ford dealer in San Antonio | ||
| Larry & Lynne Dixon (Larry_d)
Registered Member Username: Larry_d Post Number: 331 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 50.39.221.113  Rating: N/A |
Dave My 4905==8V71==Had out of frame overhaul 20K miles when I bought it. I put 15K on it. We live in OR two years ago we left for east coast, got to Tulsa, OK, No oil pressure, they pulled engine and the oil pump gear had spun on the key in the crank shaft. Fixed that and I had them put all new on lower end that was open. Who would think it would happen==cost $6500. Appears it could happen any time. Larry | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 158 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I've also got a revcon (1978),, I love it and have used it since I bought it in the early 80's, I've also got a bus that I also use but the revcon has proven to be extrememly well built and dependable, in the years that I've owned it the only mechanical item I've had to replace was the fan clutch back around 2000, I think it cost a little over 100 bucks, I've replaced the tires and oil changes, the normal maintanece stuff but it has been an extremely reliable rv, the bus has also been great, I bought the eagle back around 2002 or so. Both in my opinion are pretty near the top of their particular catagories, I would hesitate to call the revcon a sticks and staples unit, it is far more bus like than most of the other factory rv's. | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 152.121.17.253 Rating: N/A |
I'm trying to get your opinions on whether or not a bus is arguably a good choice based on cost and practicality. I know for a lot of people here it's more about love than money. That's why I used a fairly high price point. If you only have a few thousand dollars then you should probably get a nice trailer and a dependable truck. If you have $10K you can get ino a decent bus but the you run the risk of a $20K failure. But would it be an economically viable choice at $40,000 ? And, in todays market, might it be a better idea to get used high-end RV, like a Vogue? | ||
| Bill 340 (Bill_340)
Registered Member Username: Bill_340 Post Number: 141 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.197.160.195  Rating: |
Lets just say A motorhome is an end user Item, and a Bus is a continous serviceable Item, A motorhome is built layer at a time you have to remove several layers sometimes to work on them, A bus is converted from the outside in, and there for completely serviceable. I dont know if that makes sense to anyone or not. Just my thoughts.......... | ||
| Jim Sanders (Sandy)
Registered Member Username: Sandy Post Number: 85 Registered: 1-2011 Posted From: 69.199.96.250  Rating: N/A |
Dave I have been a full timer since 1992 A hol. rambler!!! Bought a 1968 Flxliner last year...I engoy working on it.. THE GREAT BIG DECIDING FACT TO ME NOWON CAN TELL ME WHAT MY FLX IS WORTH!!!!!!!!! They are worth what you can sell them for HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!Jim | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 159 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
One of the better points of a bus is it's longevity, I fully intend to pass mine down to my kids but I feel the same about my revcon, with a bus you will have to work on it and the price of the parts is very high, the upside of that is once you fix something you may never have to repair that item again, the parts for the revcon are not as expensive and readily available but you have the possibility of wearing them out over time and needing to work on that area again, brake pads are an example but for 40 bucks a set can be picked up at Napa and for 45 a rotor can be added to the mix, also you can lift the rotor, try hoisting the brake drum off an eagle and you'll easily see why they last for a lifetime lol. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 487 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
Hi Dave, I agree with your ideas, heck we could be brothers. As I get older and the economy gets scarier, I'm leaning towards going backwards and getting a decent pickup and trailer. A decent diesel pusher just costs too much to operate these days and a roadside breakdown is not the fun adventure it might have been a few years ago. (Wanna buy a nice Vogue?) A $10,000 bus, if in exceptional condition, might work if you are prepared to abandon it for scrap in the event of a catastrophic failure, or make the failure location your new hometown. It doesn't matter if it's a $10,000, $40,00 or more bus or RV, you need a $20,000 reserve to fix it or get it home. Having a bus or RV on a budget depends a lot on your sense of adventure and if a breakdown would just be another diversion on your journey or would ruin your life. The biggest single consideration is how your spousal unit feels about that. Len | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1565 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.184.241  Rating: N/A |
Bill 340....I agree with YOU! (mostly)  A bus is a HOBBY... an experience....a wonderful pursuit, if approached that way. And I agree with many others as well; BTW, there is a bunch of "talk" on the subject, over the years, on this subject in the Archives. Bottom line, IMHO....If one does not have the where-with-all to be able to enjoy at least occasional use...camping,.... a trip to a distant place for a favorite meal...overnight for a change of scene, or, in some cases, long term travel,...well..perhaps one better find another HOBBY. Then again.....as FF says "do it your way"! FWIW RCB | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 319 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
Most of the Toronado based front wheel drive motorhomes-Revcon, GMC, Cortez were all built very well. Others that were Superior (all steel construction), Foretravel (older units), Monaco, Vogue, Travco (Old Dodge motorhome). It's amazing that I don't see many motorhomes left from the 70's, yet my '77 AMGeneral transit bus is still running like a champ (course most everything was rebuilt on it). I'll take my old bus over any motorhome-it took me 6 years to build-but everything is easily removable for repair or replacement. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Mike Jackson (Mike4104tx)
Registered Member Username: Mike4104tx Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 192.208.44.88 Rating: N/A |
In the real world scenario you mention, is the retiree a bus nut? IMHO, that is a crux of it. You can get a decent RV for less than 20k, depending on what you call decent. I know a guy that sold his 38' diesel pusher RV that got upper teens MPG for less than 30k and it was nice. If I were set on getting a bus conversion. I would find one less than 20k and have 30k to play with. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1562 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.192.6.123  Rating: N/A |
Is $40K too little to get a decent, dependable bus already converted? My sportscar is ready to go and the asking price is half that. The state of the bus is the MOST critical item. Bringing a coach back from decades of neglect can be really expensive , as bus parts cost more than RV parts, and some of the labor is specialized , needs a pit , or heavy lifting. Newer frequently does not equal better , as the maint cam be ignored on a 1990 as easily as a 1960. Standard PM is in Da Book and requires no special skills . Although crawling might be required at times. Once a coach is back in good operating condition the cost of ownership is minor. The better stick bus campers get 9 or 10 mpg , which is as cheap as many modern sticks and staples can offer. If crash worthy counts , most buses are 1000% better than an RV. FF | ||
| don goldsmith (Bottomacher)
Registered Member Username: Bottomacher Post Number: 287 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 75.225.210.194 Rating: N/A |
I used to have this conversation for years when I bought my first Harley 74. The Jap bikes were smoother, cheaper, faster, and generally easier to work on. But I never knew a Harley owner who would trade. A bus requires love and patience; it's not for the faint of heart or the once-a-year user. But nothing else is a bus. You just have to make your own decision. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 160 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Even back into the 70's the differences between rv's could be huge depending on what the pockets could withstand, back then you could buy a winnibago for 25K and get a good quality spruce 2x2 in the wall framing with decent glue used to anchor the 1/4 inch luan covering, or you could spend upwards of 100K and get a custom built revcon from the factory, built to your specs, mine was built for a surgeon in springfield illinois and the paperwork shows he spent 124K to have it built, I was lucky enough to get all the engineering prints, notes and specs with it when I bought it from his widow in 1984, those I would think would represent the 2 ends of the spectrum with the winnibago being the more common of the 2, however like tom says survivability over the years is questionable, you don't see many revcons or amgenerals for that matter and far fewer winnibagos, the old foretravels show up fairly often and gmc's are still going down the highway but for suvival in a wreck, I'd feel safer in my eagle, my revcon weighs 18K but I still wouldn't want to be the first one at as accident. If I were lucky enough to find a Revcon Golieth from the early 2000's I would grab it, they were 40ft monsters with all wheel drive and even duel generators, the military bought up the production runs and the units were built to their specs and were supposedly indestructable, they bought them for mobile command posts, if I had the million they cost I would grab one in a heart beat. | ||
| ned sanders (Uncle_ned)
Registered Member Username: Uncle_ned Post Number: 107 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 184.39.25.131 Rating: N/A |
Boy after all this talk about old buses being expensive to drive and unreliable. I guess "HUGGY" a 1953 GM better just stay in the drive way. no way, it has never failed getting me home yet.And very few of the new toter homes can keep up when I feel like running with them. I don;t because I am to cheap to buy that kind of fuel mileage. uncle ned | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1210 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
Big Newell fan here I just soon have one as any bus made good luck | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 850 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15  Rating: N/A |
Buses & Coaches are for people who demand & enjoy reality & involvement... pride of ownership & in accomplishment. S&S "R/V's are for those who are more interested in comfort & relaxation, part-timers or w/e campers & those who find security or status in a "name brand". or at least that's how it was explained to me in 1963 and how I still see it today... fwiw | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 161 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I needed the storage that a bus offers, massive amounts of bay space appealed to me when I looked at the woodworking tools I carry, the DJ equipment and all the other assorted odds and ends, thats what prompted me to buy the eagle, however, I'm continually impressed at the quality construction of our revcon, we've still got the original stainless steel duel exhaust tho the mufflers have been changed, upkeep and cost of maintanence hasn't been bad for either one over the years we've owned them. I've found that the quality of the interiors depends on the skills of the convertor,, to me, a bus seat is a bus seat, is a bus seat, but a bathroom vanity with dovetailed drawers catches my eye lol. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1212 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
That is true about space in some cases Cody but most these guys are converting the buses just leaving 1 bay open if they are lucky lol good luck | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 163 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Yep clifford, I've seen that too, I look at some of the bays and think how I'd do it differently and what could be done to make use of the space more efficiently, my back bay has 2-80 gallon tanks, one grey, one black, sitting side by side in a plywood case with a 3/4 inch plywood cover, they take up about 10 inches of floor space, I've still got the tops of the tanks to use for storage, I tryed to figure out how to get the most out of each square foot of space, we sometimes hit the road for months at a time so we've whittled our "must have" list down over the years but it's still way to long. Just as a side note, I've piled sawdust inside a couple of Newells in the past, also foretravels and also most of the other available makes, even a cortez lol so I've had most of them apart at one time or another, some scare me, others impress me, I'm not a mechanic, just a sawdust piler so that has to be taken into concideration when I address a like or dislike it's usually centered around construction methods. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1564 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.194.82.142 Rating: N/A |
FEEL is important too. A bus drives/rides quite different from a trailer body plopped on a medium duty truck chassis, labeled motor home. FF | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 164 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Fred, we're talking about 2 different things here, I'm talking about revcons and your talking about winnibago's for the motorhomes, it's an easy mistake to make, people still think that revcons used toronado front drives for power too, while they both did the same thing, power the front wheels, thats where the simularity ended, the drive units found in revcons were far heavier and designed completely different, even the engines were different I had a 1979 olds 98 with the 403 engine the revcon has thecommercial 403, you would think they would be close but not even close, the car engine had a 5 quart oil system with a single filter where the revcon 403 had an 8 quart system with a double filter and the engine was far heavier putting out a solid 400 hp. Revcons were designed to be a motorhome from the ground up they didn't just take a truck chassis and add a box that explains100K price tax found on most of them when the winnibagos could be driven off the lot for 25K or so. Next run we go tojacksin arcadia I'll take the revcon and stop by, I think you'll be impressed by what you find. I realize the revcon isn't a bus but it really isn't what people normally think of as a motorhome and certainly not a S&S. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 166 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Would it be helpful for when people request information like the poster in this thread did in trying to determine which style to go with to post a cost per mile usage that we've experienced? Many of us have owned our coaches for at least a few years possibly if we posted what it cost per mile it would be somewhat helpful, we could discount things like oil changes cause 8 quarts as opposed to 8 gallons and that could be concidered regular maintanence, if money were no object we'd all be sitting in new marathons I think, so realistically one factor is what is going to be removed from your pocket and how often. | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 173.25.25.175 Rating: N/A |
i din't mean for this to become a Revcon discussion, but I like it. I couldn't settle for the rolling garbage that passes for an RV these days and I couldn't afford a bus- the Revcon was a great compormise. And if we find that we really only need 25 feet then i may never look back. But I can defend the Revcon practically. I'm in it less than $4K, but I'm only beginning. If i spent $20K more it would be far better than any late model class C or class A of the same size. Better ride, better performance, safer, faster, etc. My questions initially was. "Can the bus be defended practically" is it like my Revcon or is more like a Harley or a wooden boat? I'd love to see cost per mile estimates, or comparisons from people who owned S & S crap before taking the plunge. Dave | ||
| Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Registered Member Username: Tdh37514151 Post Number: 268 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 75.180.10.87  Rating: N/A |
Nothing better than a Silverside! | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 167 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
The cost per mile idea kinda weeds out the yard ornament people. I put a set of tires on the revcon a few years ago and they ran 125 each for the 12.50x32x16.5's and there were 4 of them, the bus has 8 and will cost somewhere around 400 each, I also replaced the fan clutch on the revcon and the mufflers and a set of front brake pads all totaled out to slightly less than 800 dollars since 1984 and I've put on 47,000 miles since then so that figures out pretty reasonable, the bus needed a hydrolic line and a air dryer, all totaled out at roughly 500 and I've put 22000 miles on it since I bought it in 2002, thats pretty reasonable too, now if I had to replace an engine in either one that would really change the numbers in a major way, I keep the revcon cause it's perfect for it's uses and the bus cause it's perfect for it's own uses, had I bought a winnibago it would have probably turned to dust long ago the bus has a welded steel truss style framework for the walls and ceiling, the revcon has a welded aluminum truss style framework for the walls and ceiling, the bus has rivited steel for the wall and roof covering, the revcon has rivited aluminum for the walls and roof covering, the only one that ever leaked was the bus where the fiberglass front meets the steel roof and that was a bear to fix. I defend the revcon because I have conciderable experience in them and I know they are not just another S&S that rolled down an assembly line, in my experience which may not count for much they both serve a purpose and those purposes are served well by them. | ||
| Ed Hackenbruch (Ed_hackenbruch)
Registered Member Username: Ed_hackenbruch Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.250.0.44 Rating: N/A |
I just figure a buck a mile. That covers fuel, food, rv parks, tires, oil, filters, etc. Makes it easy to estimate and most trips it takes less than that, but for overall long term, it probably isn't too far off. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 168 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Another thing that should be concidered is a persons mechanical ability as far as heavy equipment goes, many of the components in a bus not only require specialized tools they also require specialized knowledge, bus components are built very heavy duty to withstand the commercial use they are designed for but when a part does go south or an engine lunches, it often turns an enjoyable hobby into a yard ornament or a money pit unless you can do the work yourself and only need to deal with the cost of the parts or availability of the parts. Many of the members here come from a heavy equipment background with many having been truck drivers or involved in major sized toys so the transition to a bus is easier with that kind of background, I love my bus but if the engine let loose I would have a hard time finding the extra 20 to 30K that it would take to rebuild or replace it. | ||
| Ed Hackenbruch (Ed_hackenbruch)
Registered Member Username: Ed_hackenbruch Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.250.0.70 Rating: N/A |
Cody, i disagree a little. I think that the same thing applies to anyone buying a Class A rv. How many of the people that have them can work on them? Parts for them might be a little easier to find, but they still cost a lot. I think that bus people do tend to do more of their own work and have a better understanding of what they have than the people that are buying a S&S. Just look at the parking lot of any rv repair shop and see how full it is :>) | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 169 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I would think that an rv parking lot would reflect percentages rather than knowledge, where thousands of factory rv's are bought and sold only hundreds of busconversions can be found, I wouldn't know the exact numbers but I think factory units far out number buses I do agree that bus people tend to understand their units better and do more of their own work but I've also seen many of them that have a heavy equipment background which cuts the fear level conciderably, changing a set of spark plugs would be far easier for the average layman than running the rack on a detroit, I guess whether a person opts for a bus or a factory unit would be probably determined more by their comfort level as far as what their mechanical ability and how deep their pockets are and just exactly what the intended use of the units were to be, if it's just to go to the lake a couple times a year most would buy a trailer or a factory unit,, if it's to fulltime many feel the bus is best suited. Surprisingly,, a lot of the members here have both a bus and a factory rv, each functions well in it's own environment. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1565 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.194.82.142 Rating: N/A |
Our favorite in the small camper class is the Superior. Built by a skool bus company it is as robust in a rollover as a skoolie. The Early Dodge M 3 Chassis and 440 with 727 tranny is hard to beat . WE needed rear brake shoes in the Yukon, NAPA had them in stock!! The 20 22,24 ft'ers are urban battle wagons , can be driven and parked easily in most big cities. IN a CA cruise the parking lots wanted $10.a day to park , the parking meter took quarters for an hour. THE FMCA Superior People is a bof that worships these older jewels , and good units for $10K can easily be found. A new crate engine that will drop in and bolt up costs less than a set of modern injectors at DD FF | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 170 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Superior motorhomes were built like a tank, I had the pleasure of redoing the interior of one for an older guy that had bought it new and still owns and drives it, it looks kinda like a UPS truck from the outside but rode great and I think it had a 413 wedge engine but not sure on that, the cabinetry was all metal encapsulated, the drawers even had a metal band around them, it was decorative as well as structural, kinda built like a tank, the only complaints I ever heard about them were the position of the steering wheel, almost straight up made it like turning a pizza. I'm not sure if the company was related to Superior coaches but superior coaches had been around since 1915 or so, they used to make hearses using Pierce Arrow chassis, we have a funeral home here that still uses a pierce arrow hearse for those that want gramma to make that last ride in style. Hopefully the specialty groups will keep some of these older gems around, they are a living history of the art of motor camping. | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 540 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.5.35  Rating: N/A |
Dave, I will throw my 2 cents (now worth .005) in. I have owned several motorhomes 2 class C and a Pace Arrow class A. We decided on a bus for several reasons, but the easiest one to tell you is "take a ride in it". I have drivin brand new Monocos and other various ones on long trips as a delivery driver and can tell you there is not one on the road that is as solid and safe and comfortable feeling as our 50 year old GM. In a tornado, I am not going to the basement, I am going to sit in my bus (I am only half kidding), that's how solidly I think these are built. Their function was to transport people in a safe and comfortable manner millions of miles with the most in reliability and passenger safety being the key. Roll over a stick and staples of almost any ilk and see what you have left and then look at real bus following a rollover. As always this is just one mans opinion and should you be captured the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. John | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 174 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 173.180.119.253 Rating: N/A |
when in Tucson 2 years ago i went to the largest RV dealer and talked to the hed repair guy and asked how busy were they and he said they were booked for 6 DAYS and they run 17 bays. then he asked me what i had and i told him it was a GM bus con. then he asked what i needed, an oil change or the tire pressure checked? and i looked at him a little funny and he said they get very few bus con. in do very little work on them. asked the same question in Yuma and got the same answer. i also went to the DD dealer in Tucson and asked how often they got bus con. in and he said over the last 2 years only 5 , one engine job due to the guy used 10/40 oil ,one tranny seal, and three brake jobs, which he said for all 5 the company billed less than 10,000. and he said them dam things just do not seem to brake down. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 171 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
You guys are just jelous cause you don't own a bus AND a revcon. lol | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 173.25.25.175 Rating: N/A |
So, is there a consensus? Can we say that a bus IS a practical choice for some people but if you are not one of those people, then the consequences of being a starry eyed fool will be EXPENSIVE? | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 852 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: N/A |
Not one mention of Clark Equip. Co's CORTEZ...? oh come now! Talk about built for the long haul, I can spot a dozen of them still working for their owners around Stinkin (Tucson) Hot, AZ It was the only R/V my ol Man ever considered worth of diverting his attention from the FLX. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 655 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.13.120  Rating: N/A |
Heck, it can just as well be expensive if you're NOT "one of THOSE people". Busses are fun and safe. But if your budget is constrained these days or you can't fix things, you'd be just as well off with a fifth wheel and a genset in the back of the pickup. Pickups & trailers can be fixed anywhere for not that much money. | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.243.231.246  Rating: N/A |
Jim W, just picked my son's F350 Ford 6.0 powerstroke up from a reliable diesel shop minor repair head gaskets egr cooler etc only 4,004.60. Not sure about the cheap pickup repair! My Son is currently serving in the sand box and His Wife needed help! Glad it was a minor repair! John L | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1216 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
Wait till the turbo goes on that 350 with the 6.0 John they remove the cab. Mel I have no idea what DD dealer you were at in Tucson the one I know there WW Williams always has plenty of buses to work on same with their places in Phoenix and Vegas. Stewart and Stevenson in Houston has 20 bays just for buses they do break LOL good luck | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 531 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Jim W I have a friend that owns a Ford dealership, and he tells me the typical 6.0 diesel replacement engine runs 20k. Joe. | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 321 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
The summer of '74, my parents and I (I was 18) rented a 455 Olds powered Cortez. It was 22ft long, had three beds. At 65mph got 10mpg and rode like an Eagle with its' torsion bar front suspension and custom independent coil spring rear. That "little" motorhome weighed in at 11,000lbs! If it weren't for finding parts for the custom rear suspension, I'd like to have one today for park hopping. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 856 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: N/A |
There you go Tom, I knew there had to be someone that had experience with a durable RV from yesteryear. The one thing I remember being knocked-out about with them was the selection of engine options (190hp - 360hp) & the fact that when you stepped-up & thru that door, it was like a dance hall in the multi purpose living space. Tim Pawlenty could run for President in one! We looked at one 20 years ago & could have owned it for 2g's... .. it was a "life not-changing event" that I regret. Best to you too Tom! | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 1002 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 173.78.40.113 Rating: N/A |
Power Strokes Suck - FWIW | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1566 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 75.58.178.69 Rating: N/A |
So, is there a consensus? Can we say that a bus IS a practical choice for some people but if you are not one of those people, then the consequences of being a starry eyed fool will be EXPENSIVE? THe big question is CONDITION. A well maintained bus will mostly need PM and parts on rare occasions as they wear out slowly. Unfortuniatly that ability is used by the poorest/lazyest to keep on moving long after the bus should have been given some love. Condition, Condition , Condition is the key on purchasing to assure a long delightful ownership. A non maintained shell for $500? VS a book maintained $10,000 shell? , IF you have to contemplate this a bus camper should not be part of your lifestyle. FF | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1218 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
We sold our Eagle and bought a Safari Trek nice little rig 26,000 miles, diesel,all metal construction well designed with the power down bed from the ceiling 102 wide,15mpg at 65mph tires cost less than 200 each hold 8 qts of oil not 8 gals we love it cost wasn't that great I could have bought a nice bus for the price good luck | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
One thing that I find disturbing is the "elitist" attitude of some that own buses, I was very surprised to find that here, that if a person owns anything other than a bus then they are less of a human being because they settled for crap instead of a bus, my experience is that many buses should no longer be on the road, not necessarily because of poor maintanence but more because of other factors, in the 30 years or so that I've been redoing interiors I've seen massive rust in many, not just eagles but others like GM's and MCI's and even the coveted prevo's, engine cradles that are eaten clean thru, I've found primary wiring that is cloth wrapped that disintregates at the touch, I love my eagle but just because it's a bus doesn't mean it's better just heavier duty and that doesn't always mean better, I had a guy leave mad just a month ago because I told him that before I could work on his walls he had to take it and add some metal, he insisted it was all SS and was fine,, I showed him the area I had opened under the windows and where it had been leaking for years and where the metal had previously been, he had paid top dollar for the late 80's MCI and was very proud of it, it looked great, his wife called a couple days later and said the engine let loose on their way home and it rode the rest of the way on a landoll. Just like anything else, it pays to inspoect what you want to buy and if your not familier with the item, pay to have a qualified person check it over, thats a lot of money to be handing over on trust alone. | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.186.11  Rating: N/A |
For us, it was a combination of factors that motivated us to buy a bus: Kind of in order of relevance... Safety of family Quality of construction Type of vehicle Cost of ownership over time Purchase price Overall space Power source type Genset type Comfortable knowledge of systems 25 years experience as a mechanic (auto, truck, RV, bus & heavy Equipment) Timing and A lifetime desire to "Fulltime" I have been thinking about this for about the last 15 years. It was my desire to wait a few more years before taking the plunge, but... If I had waited till I was ready to have kids, it would never have happened. But when it did, I had no choice but to commit to it 100%. I feel the same way about getting a bus. You have to commit 100% to it. It doesn't matter if it's a bus or RV, if you take care of it, it will take care of you. Another thing I know to be a fact: EVERYTHING BREAKS! It doesn't matter who made it, it has the potential to break sooner or later. Some things do seem prone to breaking more often though. And some people have great luck with one thing and not another, no matter who made it. For me the decision buy a bus over an RV was based large and part on my experience working on both. Most of the house systems in our bus are easily repaired with parts found at Lowe's or Home Depot. Most of the systems I have worked on in RV's were propietary based and parts had to be obtained through the manufacturer. Several of the van based systems are fine for the weekender's, but after seeing how high the failure rate is, I wouldn't even consider one for fulltiming unless it was parked and never driven again. The safety factor is a major concern too. I have recovered several after both minor and major accidents. It does not take a very big car at all to drive through the side of an RV. Some are mildly better than others, but not by much. Being rear ended in an RV offers very little protection either. Adding a tip out/pull out just weakens the structure that much more. Airplanes are built to fly, not to crash (if they were, they would never get off the ground). RV's are built for pleasure, Buses were built to drive. But the safety of the bus seems to be more evident. Not all buses are built alike. But generaly buses have a lot more strength due to the nature of their construction. Rust of course, will weaken anything and hidden rust is the hardest to find and deal with. The GM's have very little steel used and for the most part, all of it is easy to inspect and repair. I know there are exceptions to everything and there are shining examples of all extreams. It is possible to stack the deck in your favor though; do your homework first; learn as much about the subject as possible; join groups; go to RV parks and ask questions of the people who own them; check out the repair shops (warning: All mechanics have a different opinion on everything based on their individual experiences/successes/failures); Don't over estimate your abilities, but don't under estimate your ability to learn new things; if you don't know what you are looking at (you have no background or experience) find and pay someone who does before you buy either one. I purchased my bus ($12K) after spending a great deal of time shopping both buses and RV's. I am familure with all it's basic systems and have work on all of them in one form or another at some point in my life. I found a bus that fit our needs as they are right now and hopefully, it will still fill that job for longer than I can foresee. It is in the best condition of any of the buses I looked at by far and will more than likely out live me, if I take care of it and maintaine it. It's also 57 years old. I have yet to see any 57 year old RV's still going strong. Come to think of it, I've never seen a 57 year old RV. Now for me, comparing the cost of ownership of a bus or RV to the cost of ownership of a house. Repair or replacement of: The roof Hot water heater Fridge Stove Washer Dryer Furnace AC Carpet Water system Septic system Electrical Paint Landscape tools It all adds up and most of the time you can budget for the repairs at your convenience. You can be proactive in your approach, but stuff happens and you don't always have the choice. In some situations you have to be reactive and fix or replace things as they dictate. A bus or RV is the same. You can budget for repairs or upgrades. Does anyone keep an extra $20K in the bank for a new tile roof? Or you decide you want that new $7000 hottub that seats 12. You will either save the money and prepare for it or you barrow it or you do without. The money I would be spending on the house will now be spent or set aside for the bus. Sorry, this may be a little off topic, but there are so many things to consider before deciding a question like you posted. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1219 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
Get real guys those old buses if the upkeep cost was cheaper than the revenue it brought in they would still be on the road making money.We drove ours 12,000 to 25,000 miles per year for over 20 years and it separated some cash from the wallet,I paid 16,000 for a paint job the insurance co refused to pay,not a lot of difference between a bus and a boat if you use one | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
"not a lot of difference between a bus and a boat if you use one" Having lived aboard cost wise you are correct but there isone major difference. When the bus breaks you calmly pull over to the side of the road vs bailing | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.186.11 Rating: N/A |
Wow! Why so much for the paint job? The last time I painted a bus it cost me about $400 in materials and about a week of my time. As I understand it, Greyhound's policy was to turn the equipment over after approx. 10 years worth of service. Part of the reason was that they still had a very strong resale value to secondary operators. Part of it was to maintain an image of the latest-greatest in safety. The power system changed very little, but there were improvements to transmissions, brakes, longer coach lengths/more passenger capacity, storage bay size and convenience/comfort of the passengers. Improvements yes, but not necessarily a reduction in operating costs. Just adding the tag axle increased operating costs. Automatic tranmissions reduced fuel economy as do tag axles. Though newer fuel management systems and turbo use have offset some of that. But I don't think a gasoline powered coach can be compared fairly to a diesel powered coach. They get horrible economy, and with very few exceptions, do not have the longevity that diesels do under extended service. Now, If I had $50K and the chance to do it over again, I'd still shop around and buy the best bus I could find for $25K or less and put the other $25K away for a rainy day. I'd enjoy it for what it is and for what it's not. I enjoy the questions that people ask about it and the look of envy and appreciation people have for the "old buses". Never mind the fact that the brakes are all updated, the engine, the clutch, the trany have all been completely overhauled, the coolant system is new, the tires are new, air bags are new, new air throttle and Jake's installed. they don't know the entire running gear is in better shape and newer condition than their 7 year old plastic box on wheels and at less then a 1/4 the cost. They just see a 1954 GM PD4104 sporting a set of T-3 headlights with maybe a million miles under it's belt. They see a Greyhound that they rode on across this country once or they remember a relative traveling on one in the service, or a dozen other stories they tell of a dad or uncle driving one and you can watch the waves of nostalgia sweep across their faces. They thank you for keeping that little bit of history alive and for sharing it with them and that makes it worth every bit of it. Very few RV's invoke the kind of visceral reaction across such a wide spread group of people that seeing an "old" Greyhound or Trailways bus does. People pull over to photograph old buses. They devote websites to them and Youtube videos of them. Yes, I think owning a bus takes a special kind of person, but I think people who own busses are pretty special ;) | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.186.11 Rating: N/A |
Dan, The gentleman you refer to who's motor let go, must have been very good at over looking things. The fact that he argued with you about it speaks volumes about his inablility to accept certin realities. Like the fact that engines require regular services and rust happens. I think that no matter what he owned, it was doomed... Something that I never understood: Why do some people who pay large amount of money for things and then neglect them? There are the owners who are type "A's" that are very by-the-book about it, but then there are those who spend as much as they can and just trash it. Then they complain about it needing anything and don't understand why it failed. Then there are the one's who wonder why a guy spends so much time taking care of the thing that he paid so little for as if the only value it could have is measured by how much it cost you. When I called GMAC to inquire about insurance, the guy made a statement that really got me wondering: He said:"A 1954? How much can that be worth? As old as it is, it can't be worth anything. I don't think we can insure it for anything but liability..." I currently have full coverage insurance for $25K through State Farm for $200 a year. So maybe the value one places on a bus or RV is partially based on one's perception as well as what it would cost to replace. It might very well be worth a lot more to me than it is to you and vise versa. So Bus v. Pusher motorhome and other RV crap: Get what you like, do your research first, buy the best that you can afford, know that it will break, and make the most of it. If it turns out it doesn't fit your needs, sell it and buy something else. What works for me may not work for you. Your milage may vary. Yada yada yada...lol | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 175 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I guess I'm still mad at the guy and taking it out on everyone else, sorry about that, it's just that after 30 years or so of working on interiors and finding that I would be afraid to drive at least 3 out of 5 buses that I work on either because of bad brakes, or frames almost rusted in half, or engine cradles that have long since folded or find extention cords that were used for house wiring I get to the point that I wonder about the safety of any of them, I've seen tires that were so badly dryrotted you could peel rubber with your finger nails, buses might be or might have been the safest vehicle on the road but when I see at least 3 out of 5 that I would be afraid to move around in the yard, something is wrong, I wonder what would happen if a DOT inspector were to appear at a bus rally and start with the first bus and inspect them all, what would he find and how many hundreds or thousands of miles were those buses driven thru traffic to get there, I resent my revcon being called a stick and staples unit, the wall framing on my eagle is inch and a half steel tubing, welded and gusseted into a truss structure, the roof is the same, my revcon is inch and a half aluminum tubing welded and gusseted into a truss structure and the same with the roof, my eagle has a rivited steel skin, the revcon has a rivited aluminum skin, where are the sticks. Take the skin off an MCI and try to drive it down the interstate, it'll fold in half, but you can drive an eagle without the skin,, explain to a bus drivers wife and kids why the front area of a bus is often refered to as the kill zone, I can't think of the number of times I've slid a recliner or chair over to the side in a bus while working on it, anyone heard of anchoring them? I've seen front facing toilets in many conversions, ever wonder where gramma ends up when you hit the brakes,, and finding half cooked extention cords running front to back as wiring scares me, this is just the interior, what about the so called safety features of the bus that make it so wonderful, the brakes that only work on the drives, the LP tanks that sit next to the water heater, come on guys, help me out here, tell me it's a bad dream and stop telling me how safe you are, at one point in the buses life it may have been safe but what about now. | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.189.158.228 Rating: N/A |
I agree with you Dan. I've looked at so many half done conversions and RV's it makes me wonder how a person would be willing to risk their familie's lives let alone their own. As far as air brakes that only operate on the drive axle, I've never seen that. I know the stopping power ratio is like 40/60 front to rear and older systems used one circuit for both, but all newer systems use a dual line the separates the front from the rear. Mine is no exeption either. I think that there is a certain responsibility that one should hold one's self to anytime you put the lives of others at risk. I guess that is why lawyers make such a good living and why we have things like DOT and OSHA. The Revcon sounds like a very well built RV/Motorhome/whatever. I've never seen one. But it sounds like the factory followed what is considered to be the top of the line construction like your bus, or visa versa. My Neighbor has an FMC that looks pretty neat, but after hearing him complain about the poor MPG's (4-5MPG) and seeing how much damage it took after the front end was wiped out by a 5 mph crash (Forgot to set the brakes after leaving it in neutral and it rolled about 14' and struck a sign pole, it broke all the fiberglass, the front windows and horseshoe'd the "bumper"), I'll pass, thanks. But even a Revcon is no stronger than it's weakest part and if someone took a short cut with the wiring instead of doing it right, how is that Revcon's fault? If an owner chooses to take short cuts, it's on his head, not the manufacturer's. GM or MCI is not responsible for the choices you and I make. We are. If I put an unsafe vehicle on the road (bus or RV) it's my liability. No one else's. I've seen just as many short cuts taken by irresponsible RV owners as I have bus owners, but that does not make the buses or RV's at fault. Does it? Are RV's and buses held to the same safety standards at the time of their construction? I think the general vehicle rules might be the same (lighting, mirrors, etc. But I think that is where it stops. Commercial carriers have a lot more strident rules. After the bus falls into private ownership, things change in most states. But the owner is still liable for operating the vehicle in a safe manor. But that doesn't mean that they do or will. RV or bus, what happens down the road after the sale is the choice of the owner. Now if your saying that people who own buses do things in a shady way and that people who own RV's don't, then I'd like to know where you get that information from, because in my personal experience, no one has an exclusive right to exercise their stupidity and they all do. No matter what they drive. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1568 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.195.75.240 Rating: N/A |
Are RV's and buses held to the same safety standards at the time of their construction? Are you kidding ???, some of the RV clowns stretch the frame and double the GVW of the basic chassis based on NOTHING! FF | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 176 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Ok fred, then explain how an extention cord is a form of acceptable wiring, once you've sited the code for that then define your definition of "rv clown", I rarely ask anything of sean, ususally we're at loggerheads but perhaps sean may have a thought or 2 about people who use extention cords for house wiring. When I talk about brakes I'm talking about slack adjusters that have been rusted solid for years, I'm talking about things I've seen over the span of about 30 years of working on interiors of both buses and factory units, I've seen work done by so called respectable convertorrs, thats where the comment about extention cords came in, I've pulled several crispy cords out and I know where they came from and so do many of you, so lets refrain from the idea of a bus being the safest thing on the road and then rephrase that to say if it's maintained properly, this idea of the buses never breaking down would eliminate 75% of the posts on this forum if it were true, all things mechanical break at some point, I just couldn't sit by anymore and listen to how safe a bus is and then watch a bus slide into the yard like one did last week with one tire locking up to stop it, that bus was driven from Iowa, I work on interiors not brakes but when that bus left it had brakes all around adjusted properly, and the slack adjusters were no longer a solid mass of rust. Like I said, about 3 out of every 5 buses I've seen should not be on the road, I don't care if the vehicle is a sherman tank, if it's unsafe it's just plain unsafe and this applies to many factory rv's, many come from the factory overloaded to begin with but when I step on the hitch on an MCI and it drops an inch, something isn't right with a frame. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1222 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
Cody you are on Bus board here man nothing going to change LOL but I agree I work on some of these old buses as you know, they are wore out when they are turn out to pasture | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 177 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I know clifford, and you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just frustrating to see it over and over, like it never ends and the previous owner gets the blame and I'll ask how long a guy had the bus and he'll tell me he's owned it for 5 years or 8 years and he is still blaming the previous owner for whats still not corrected. When you look under the panel and see a mass of connectors, nothing labled, nothing marked, multiple connections made on a single terminal, and other stuff, it gets scary. I had one come in a couple of weeks ago with the power steering squealing, the low pressure line was a garden hose, he said he has to change the hose about once a year. We all get a bad name when one of these jerryrigged units gets into an accident and thats why some forces are screaming for more regulation, cause we're all too poor/lazy to fix stuff so we have a safe rig. One post refered to "no lights", the option is to fix the wiring so there are lights,, or not run after dark? | ||
| Bob Glines (Robertglines1)
Registered Member Username: Robertglines1 Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2010 Posted From: 75.205.186.135 Rating: N/A |
I would like to hope that with the aid of bus boards like this that the awareness of safety issues are comming to home builders attentions: I for one have found Bus systems to be far superior when properly installed and maintained to the average ( I said average of) the general rv industry. Have been a previous RV dealer and worked on their minnimual /get buy systems. get out door. Basically look good and last a few years and need to be replaced. Planned obleslanced. Axles and tires are often designed only to carry only weight of unit when shipped dry. Add your supplies and you are over weight. A little overboard but not by much ;do the math.From My experience and observation in a major accident; for a RV Sticks&staples Send at least 2 wreckers and 2 rollbacks to haul away parts. For a bus send 1 wrecker. Opinion only.from one who has owned both kinds. Bob | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1223 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.48.167 Rating: N/A |
Bob, I have seen some Newells,Vogues and Foretravels take some pretty good hits your Southwinds and etc are not much but the higher end RV's seem to to do good FWIW reading the NHS more people are killed each year in bus crashes by a huge margin than RV's just be safe no matter what you drive | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 653 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 67.141.74.177  Rating: N/A |
Cody, I was gonna refrain from posting on his thread But the "extension cord" reference got me. It's not just home converters that do that sort of thing.... Ask Bob Glines about his 98 Prevost. Cat and I stripped a lot of the burnt and ruined stuff out of it, and while we were at it, found zip cord going to dedicated TV and stereo receptacles, 6 gauge welding cable to and from the engine compartment for the house and start batteries, 120V electrical wiring scabbed together with wire nuts, (hidden behind walls), green wire, red wire, blue wire and brown wire all wire nutted together in series to make a connection for the electric water heater. This was from a professional converter out of Alabama. It isn't just home converters that mess up. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 180 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Dallas, I knew this would be a sensitive issue but it has to be dealt with, I can understand home conversions where the people don't know better but I've seen this with so called professional convertors too, I've seen holes drilled in metal wall framing with the wire pushed thru and onto the next outlet and the insulation is gone, the people ask me if I know why the outlet keeps popping breakers and I find half the chassis is hot, as far as extention cords go I've pulled out a mile of it over the years, my arguement is that what may have left the factory as one of the safest transports may not be quite as safe anymore after 30 or 40 or 50 years, I think we can do a lot more for ourselves at cleaning up our own messes cause if we don't there are plenty of people in washington that would love to do it for us. We had an older couple run off the road in an older MCI early this spring, the bus didn't far well, it hit a tree and then rolled down an incline, the top was flattened to the lower level of the windows and the chair the lady was sitting in sailed farther than she did after they exited the windshield, they were both killed. I understand when a person wants to get the rig ready for the holiday weekend and a ride to a park and in a hurry, patch things together so it'll work for the trip but at some point that needs to be corrected and done right. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 658 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 67.141.74.177 Rating: N/A |
I agree completely Cody! I replaced in our PD 4103 (58 years old now), over 3500 feet of 12V wiring because when CC converted it back in the late 60's, they used pretty cheap wire and connectors. That also includes the original factory wiring that was the cloth covered stuff and had degraded to the point that the insulation would fall off if you touched it. I've had a couple of people email me about what I want for the bus when I sell it as a shell and I always tell them, $5000 or best reasonable offer. For an ugly old bus, that is a LOT of money. For a bus with fresh clean safe wiring, that's a steal. On a related note, I've dealt with some of the converted buses and even some factory motor homes, (Fleetwood Bounders come to mind), that employed the really great DC wire that you buy at Walmart or Harbor Freight as 120V AC wiring. With just a small overload, the vinyl coating just drips off leaving burnt puddles on the floor. | ||
| Bob Glines (Robertglines1)
Registered Member Username: Robertglines1 Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2010 Posted From: 75.205.153.14 Rating: N/A |
I had posted my dis-approval of the lamp cord. used by the converter out of Al. I assure you it is no longer part of the conversion. After seeing it all remaining electrical was stripped and disguarded.Professional is a loose term and does not = quality.Guess I have been lucky most of the coaches I have been exposed to have been good to excellant conversions.But haven't really been around many myself except board members. Bob | ||
| David Dulmage (Daved)
Registered Member Username: Daved Post Number: 284 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 204.101.119.243  Rating: N/A |
We had two Winnebago motor homes before the MCI we now own. The big advantage of the front engine, rear wheel drive motor homes was that I could work on just about anything on the chassis if I needed to. They were much the same mechanically as a 1-ton truck and parts were relatively cheap and easy to obtain. The bus, on the other hand generally requires the services of a heavy equipment mechanic. I take mine to an excellent bus mechanic. You need a pretty good reserve (either cash or a credit card with a lot of unused credit available for an unforeseen failure and you need to keep the regular preventative maintenance up-to-date as well. Expect a minimum of $500.00 for any unplanned service while on the road. Be prepared for $$thousands for a major breakdown. Having said that, this is our tenth summer using the bus and we have had very few problems. FWIW Dave D |
