| Author |
Message |
Mark Radius (Halfcircle) (24.236.151.175)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 10:06 pm: | |
I am considering installing a Cummins 8.3 ISC with an Allison B400 automatic transmission in my MC-9, which currently has an 8v-71/HT740. Has anyone done this before? Any input, advice, or warnings would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance!! MR |
TWO DOGS (63.185.72.184)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 3:25 pm: | |
sounds a little underpowered..how many cubes is that...isn't that a pick-up engine ? |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.20)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 4:04 pm: | |
I guess the big question is: Why would you want to do that? |
Jimmci9 (209.240.205.68)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 4:16 pm: | |
the 40' HR motorhomes use the 8.3 .... and it works for them...its about 330 hp... lots of engineering changes to make it work... and i think that the stock 3.73 rear end ratio will be way to low... to really make it work, you'll need differnt gears,... like 2.60's or something close to that.... |
Johnny (4.174.103.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 6:08 pm: | |
The ISC is 8.3 litres, about 510ci.
400HP/1000lb-ft shouldn't be hard.
Heck, with some tweaking, a 5.9 litre ISB will run away from even a 6V92TA or 8V71T. |
ralph7 (208.148.72.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
Better have extra cooling for trans and a big eng oil cooler. Now how do you cool air from turbo to eng? Remember trucks cool air in front of rad. you NEED to cool that turbo air or roast (melt) pistons. Yes a tweaked 5.9 will do it but not for long that's why most 22,000lb MH now ues 8.3 but look close and you find many upgrades. In marine ues 5.9 will work at 600-750 ftlbs torque but they use sea/river water to cool OIL, eng water an turbo air, and 8.3 can turn 800 to 1200ftlb. but live ????? If it works I would love to try. |
Johnny (4.174.103.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 9:18 pm: | |
There are plenty of otshotters grossing 25-30K on a Ram 3500 dually with a cranked-up ISB--some pushing 700+HP on a DAILY-DRIVEN truck (often, their only vehicle). Even cranked up, 300,000 miles is no big deal.
Yes, the ISB is THAT overbuilt.
Many Cummins ISB's use no intercooler in MD applications. |
ralph7 (208.148.72.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 9:54 pm: | |
8.3 in MD use eng water in intake manifold called INNER COOLER, uses heator hoses to and from manifold. Many yard horse tractors use 8.3/with iner cooler andallison mt644. These units rated at 30,000lbs. My sons 5.9 was pulling gross 31,000 on 5th wheel for 60,000mi.then we bought it. Owner was forced off road,rolled,we fix now has 250,000. Others here pull 22,000lbs or less 6 days a week, but had to go to dana 80 in rear, even ours dana 60/70? gave up at 160,000 |
Tony (64.215.196.190)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 10:02 pm: | |
Mark
I put a 2000, 8.3 In a Eagle Bus with a allison trans but have not drove It down the rd yet, i did take It out to the end of my Driveway and turn it around and It semed to me like It had a lot of power,( a lot more than the 6V92TA that was In It) I dont know If this was the gearing of the Trans or what I am makeing a Entrance door out of my 2 piece, dont know what I am doing but I am hopeing to get It going this summer.let me know If you go that Rt, with the Cummins 8.3.
Tony |
Mike (4.4.12.34)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 1:43 am: | |
I have been reading over the board for a few days. What a great group, I don't know how I never noticed it before. I live near Portland OR and in Portland all their buses have the Cummins ISL or L10 in them. I have seen the 8.3 in a lot of the higher end school buses. I think either engine would work. |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 2:20 am: | |
Grossing 30K on a Dodge Ram 3500 is a major no-no. Maximum GCWR for that vehicle is 20K. Same for Ford F350.
It's "INTER COOLER", not "INNER COOLER." Detroit calls the same thing an AFTER COOLER. |
Ron Leiferman (Ron_In_Sd) (12.111.217.5)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 11:22 am: | |
Why not look at the ISM/M11 motor. It is rated at around 280 to 450 HP with a 1050 to 1450 ft-lbs.
If I remember right Southern Oregon Diesel is install the M11 in Eagles and MCIs. |
Ron Walker (Prevost82) (209.52.245.237)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 2:17 pm: | |
I agree Ron...that's what I'm look at, is a M11, there only 5 inch longer than a 8v71...
Ron |
Ron Leiferman (Ron_In_Sd) (12.111.217.5)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:02 pm: | |
Yeah, I asked a couple friends in that salvage business to keep a eye out for a Fire truck with a 450 HP M11 with a HD 4060PR Allison.
The 400 HP and 450 HP M11's were only installed in RVs, Fire truck and motorcoachs. I bet a standard issue 370 HP can easily be turned up to 400+ HP with just a computer. |
Ron Walker (Prevost82) (209.52.245.237)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
yeah, Ron...I was told the same
Ron |
Johnny (4.174.67.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:57 pm: | |
"Grossing 30K on a Dodge Ram 3500 is a major no-no. Maximum GCWR for that vehicle is 20K. Same for Ford F350."
Maybe, but it happens DAILY. I personally saw a beautiful silver Ram quad-cab dually last week, with DOT numbers, an IFTA tag, & "GVWR 30,000" on the side of it, pulling a big gooseneck car transporter. |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 5:11 pm: | |
Most states will let you license a vehicle for any weight capacity you want, within reason. My two axle 5 yard dump truck is licensed for 34,000 even though according to bridge law and its design certification it has a max of 32,000. I purposely did that so that if I'm right at the maximum load a rainstorm won't make me illegal if I get pulled over and weighed. |
Johnny (4.174.112.51)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 8:25 pm: | |
I know--and as long as you're under your axle & tire ratings, the DOT doesn't even look at the factory GVWR tag. Except for the F-800, the wreckers at work are all tagged for more than the factory GVWR (factory/registered):
2001 F-550 rollback, 19,000/25,950
1986 F-350 hoist, 10,600/14,500
1987 GMC R-35 hoist, 11,000/14,500
1992 F-350 wheel-lift, 10,600/14,000
1974 GMC C-35 rollback, 11,600/18,000 (spare)
1968 Chevy C-30 sling, 10,000/14,000 (spare)
I was in the 86 Ford all day, in fact. |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 6:39 am: | |
Phil, don't know about your state, but as an old Weights and Registration Cop in Kansas, we wrote tickets on three factors: Can you "bridge" it, can "tag" it, and can you "axle" it. If you were weighed you would still get two tickets. Don't sweat it though, we ALWAYS went somewhere and did something else when it started raining! |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 10:58 pm: | |
Don, in Washington state they go by the licensed weight. Get caught carrying more than your licensed weight and it's a pretty hefty ticket.
They don't care about the limits posted by the manufacturer on the builders plate. That's what the department of licensing is supposed to deal with, but the state patrol never looks at it.
Bridge law concerns only come into play on combination vehicles. In Washington state most single vehicles are allowed to "violate" bridge law under the "garbage truck" exemption. |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.83)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 11:50 am: | |
Wow, what a weird state. I assume you mean by "licensed weight" you are speaking of the license plate rating.
So you are telling me if I get an 80,000 lb tag on my pickup, I can use it to haul the big loads legally (in Washington)??
And you are telling me the the FEDERAL bridge law is being ignored in Washington? Good grief, there goes their federal funding for highways!! (which will leave more for Texas, hooray!) |
Johnny (4.174.103.85)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 8:20 pm: | |
Like that here, too, Don.
You can tag a pickup for as much as you want (my F-350 is tagged for 11,000, factory is 9500), but it can't be over axle or tire ratings. |
drivingmisslazy (66.168.168.57)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 8:56 pm: | |
Don, here in WV you can register a vehicle for any weight you want. My F350 is registered for 12,000 lbs. Just costs a few dollars more. I suspect the gvw is probably in the 7500 lb. range.
Richard |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.60)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
I wasn't clear, I meant that it is weird that you can license for the overweight you haul AND NOT GET INTO TROUBLE. The two axle dumps like Phil has were the prime targets, since they usually haul loads heavier then designed for. At 10000 per axle, 20 thou was all they could haul and be legal, but were virtually ALWAYS overloaded. (I used to consider anything less than 35 thou not a full load on mine). Usually they are very short, making them violate the bridge law as well. We laughed at the protests given "but I bought a 35 thou tag!). The fine was so small, that rarely saved them the added cost of the bigger tag.
People cheat in the other way too. It was not uncommon to stop a Class 8 truck (semi to most) with a 12thou license plate. The 12m tag (standard for pickups) cost about $50, the 80m tag they needed cost $2000. Kansas was not too smart, the fine only amounted to a few hundred dollars! |
Johnny (4.174.106.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 9:47 pm: | |
One reason: for commercial trucks (like the wreckers), the GVWR on the tag has to cover the truck & any trailer (or towed car). The hotshotter may only have 10,500 on the axles of his Ram 3500, but combined gross weight (truck & trailer) might be 28,000+. That's why he tags for 30K. |
DonTX/KS (66.82.9.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 10:34 pm: | |
Ya sure got that right! |
Phil Dumpster (24.16.243.37)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 4:07 am: | |
Don, we have something called the garbage truck exemption. Since garbage truck operators have no way of knowing what their trucks will weigh when they get done with their routes, an exemption was written into the law.
Several years ago (like 20) this law what challenged. After all, why are garbage trucks so special? Why have weight limits at all? The end result is that the Washington State patrol enforces the tonnage limit on the license for straight trucks and not the manufactuer's GVW rating. Most straight trucks are now licensed for a couple thousand pounds over GVWR and everyone is happy.
The Department of Licensing won't let you license a pickup truck for 80,000. They are the ones who will bother to look at the manufacturer's GVWR and decide what you can license it for.
Conbination licenses are different animals from straight vehicle licenses. These are primarily for trucks that haul trailers that are licensed but aren't charged for tonnage. This came about because quite often a truck ends up pulling a trailer that the truck owner doesn't own. |