| Author |
Message |
Frank Allen (152.163.207.49)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 12:49 am: | |
Think i got all the problems worked out on installing the spring brake on the 06, all i need now is for somebody to tell me how to rig the air plunbing to make it work . Thanks
Frank allen |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (12.146.32.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 2:13 am: | |
Hi Frank,
I have been hunting around on this BBS and other places to find out what needs to be done to convert our 1964 4106 to spring brakes. It doesn't have the DD3 system, either. I just came across your post about having yours figured out, but I didn't find any earlier part of the thread. Can you point me to whatever information you're using? Right now, I'm looking at bringing our brakes up to snuff, and would like to get the spring brakes installed, as well. My main problem is making room enough on the front of the suspension arms to mount the piggy-back units. The plumbing is easy, but it does require the installation of the parking brake valve and an air line to the spring pots, at a minimum.
Tom Caffrey |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (152.163.213.188)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 8:35 pm: | |
I am unfamiliar with the 4106, and its clearance trouble for spring brake conversions, so this may not be of any value...
The transit 5307's that I am familiar with use the smooth sided maxibrake chambers, with the spring on the inside, instead of piggybacked like the brakes we see on all the trucks. They are a little smaller around the middle, until you get to the one clamp for the service portion on the back. About the same length, just one less fat part closer to the mounting point.
If it is a circumference fit clearance problem, then perhaps the maxis will fit?
Someone who knows, please describe the clearance problem for me? Just curious.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (12.146.32.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:40 pm: | |
Hi buswarrior,
The clearance problem is that there is only around 2 1/2" between the front of the existing brake pot
and the body on the 4104 and the 4106. A piggy-backed brake pot will not fit in the space that the original single pot fits in, as near as I can tell. I went over to a site and looked at the maxibrake cylinder just now, and it looks to me as if the Maxibrake pot is just as long as a piggy-backed pot, so I don't see how that would work. Any ideas are welcome, especially from someone who has managed to make a successful conversion. Thanks, guys.
Tom Caffrey |
Frank Allen (152.163.204.43)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 1:52 am: | |
i have heard the 30/30 brake chambers will work, i really dont know there are 06 buses all over with spring brakes but nobody seems to know what to do to it.Tuck said he used the 30/30 brake chambers on his 4104 but offered no more info i have also heard of using dd-3 s if anyone knows anything about this i wish they would share the info with us . thanks
Frank Allen 4106-2626 |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (12.146.32.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:14 am: | |
Thanks, Frank. I'll just hope someone makes a post that sheds a little more light on the topic.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 |
Al B (209.252.244.76)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 9:54 pm: | |
I am in the process off trying to put a DD3 system on my 06 that I took off a 4107 not real easy there is a couple valves feeding off different tanks you have to have I think its made so you can't put air in both parts of the brake chamber at the same time. I just started working on it I'll let you know how it goes. I will tell you this you don't want to buy the brake chambers new, MCI part wants 714.00 each |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (12.146.32.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 10:17 pm: | |
Hi Al,
If you are not too far along on that job, you may want to rethink it. The piggy-back 30/30 spring pots shold be available new to you for well under $100, each. Good luck!
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 |
JR (205.188.193.174)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 10:25 pm: | |
I FITTED A PIGGY BACK POD TO THE SINGLE POD ON MY 04 SEVERAL YEARS AGO.IT DOES FIT BUT THERE IS ONE PROBLEM.THE OTHER DAY I HAD TO PULL THE REAR BREAK DRUMS AND CAMS,I REALISED THAT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH ROOM BETWEEN THE THE BACK OF THE POD AND THE BULK HEAD TO SCREW THE SPRING RELEASE BOLT IN.ED SUJESTED I OVER AIR THE BELLOWS PUSHING THE AXLE DOWN BELOW THE BULK HEAD TILL I COULD SCEREW THE BOLT IN.ALLOWING ME TO SCREW IN THE BOLT REALESING THE SPRING BREAKS.THEN I RELEASED THE AIR WHICH ALLOWED THE AXLE TO GO BACK IN PLACE. |
Ed Brenner (207.226.80.170)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 9:54 pm: | |
I am currently adding a spring brake system to my 4106.I bought a kit including the brake chambers brake valve,park release valve,quick release valve and tubing,form Dean's coach.On a 4106 you must cut the brackets for the chambers off,move it rearwards on the frame and weld a brace on the front air bag tower.all of this is needed to get the proper clearance between the chambers and the bulkhead.I have done all that and am now in the process of doing the plumbing.Unless you are good at welding better let someone who is do it.It appears to be the only way to get spring brakes on a 4106. |
FAST FRED (63.215.235.170)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 5:45 am: | |
OF course adding spring brakes to an ICC equipped unit ,
DOES LOOSE all the advantages that the origonal ICC stuff .
The ICC can be turned on at will, no need to wait for the spring to hit.
The ICC coaches can be towed or at least moved without an aux air line.
The ICC coaches have a real parking brake {Johnson bar}and wont roll if somone accidentally touches dash.
There is no posability of distorting the drums and foundation caused by springs and air pressure in combination on break release.
The old systems might be old , but for me the losses in spring brake conversion outweigh the many advantages if the old ICC system.
FAST FRED |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (12.146.32.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 1:29 am: | |
Thanks for the comments on the ICC, Fast Fred. I hadn't given the ICC part of the system much thought. I do have a sheet from Bendix that shows the valve necessary to prevent combination pressures from being applied to the drums. And at first thought, it seems to me that the ICC system could be applied to the front section of a spring pot. I have no doubt that there would be problems trying to preserve the ICC features and I plan to study this issue. I was gone for the last 10 days because I went to Mesa, AZ to pick up our newly purchased 4106 and brought it up to Washington for the brake and other upgrades. The thing that bugged me about the non-spring systems was if you ruptured a rear diaphragm on a long downgrade, I don't see how you could get stopped while staying on the road if your speed was more than the hand brake could handle. The service brakes, the ICC system and the DD3 system seem to depend on not losing either of the rear diaphragms. By the way, we do plan on keeping our hand brake in working order, which should go some ways towards making up for the loss of the ICC benefits when we install spring brakes. |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (12.146.32.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 1:40 am: | |
To Ed Brenner: What did Dean's Coach get for the spring brake kit? Was it complete? For example, was a reserve tank for emergency release of the spring brakes part of the setup, or do you have to install the caging bolts to move the rig once you lose your system air? I might be interested in getting the kit, since I have not ordered any of the spring brake parts for our 4106, yet. |
Ed Brenner (207.226.80.167)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 10:02 pm: | |
Tom, I don't remember the exact price somewhere in the $450 range.It included 2 new type 30/30 spring brake chambers,1 E-2 Model foot valve, 1 QR1 quick release valve,1 PP1 push pull valve.It also included 55 feet of 3/8" air brake line,5 feet of 3/4" line,4 feet 5/8" line and 7 feet rubber air line.No connectors are in the kit you can use a lot of the old fittings,I purchased about $40 worth of fittings.You don't need another air tank.as soon as the bus air system is up the park brake will release.Yes if you need to tow with no air then you will have to manually release the brakes with the tool supplied with the chambers.A manual comes with the kit(with pictures).It does an excellent job of telling you what to remove and how to install the new parts.Remember on your bus the frame has to be cut and welded to accept the larger(longer ) chambers.I just finished my system but haven't driven it yet(other work in process)but see no reason for any problems.It all functions like it should. |
Jim Stacy (12.87.110.184)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 11:02 pm: | |
I have 30/30 actuators on my 4104, installed by Garry Dean. 30/30's are MUCH cheaper than DD3 units (by about 10 times!) DD3's are required in a passenger carrying commercial bus as they require application of the service brake at the same time as the park brake valve is released. I assume this is a safety feature to prevent unauthorized release of the park brake. 30/30's do not have this feature and are used in most non passenger carrying commercial rigs. The mounting bracket must be moved and the threaded operating rod must be shortened.
Don't overlook changing the foot valve to a newer style that has separate systems front and rear so if you blow a hose you still have one axle system working.
Jim Stacy |