| Author | Message | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 275 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
On another board there is a thread running about the needed cash reserves or credit lines that are required to run these huge metal objects down the road, one says 20K is the minimum, it's followed up by examples of repairs that cost conciderably more as if the higher cost or price range has become a status symbol, the one post that I felt was what could be concidered normal for the great majority of us is the one that said with good preventative maintanence most major repairs can be held to a minimum, is it just me or does that somehow make sence. Perhaps because we have buses we want to present the image that we all have deep pockets and a 40K out of frame rebuild is mearly an inconvience, I would think that for most of us it would result in a yard ornament rather than a minor adjustment in our finances. A couple of years ago a busnut friend stopped in for a few days while his bus was getting an operation for a sick tranny, I drove him back and forth as the job progressed and when it was completed I drove him to pick up the now healthy bus, the repair was a hefty 6500 and before the trip to pick it up required several phone calls to favorite people located at different banks to come up with the money needed, after the bus was picked up and the repair paid for the posting read as being an 18K complete tranny rebuild and was handled as nothing more than a minor speed bump on an enjoyable cross country run, as if it was nothing, I sat and helped as the desperate phone calls were made to come up with the needed funds, it seemed like something major at the time, I know for me it would have been major and very difficult, maybe I'm not one of the affluent individuals that have that kind of disposable income, actually I know I'm poor, no bones about it, I'm dirt poor but I wonder how many of us probably don't have the deep pockets we like to portray, I know we are all part of the upper crust and repairs are nothing to worry about but I think we might be, in reality posting our fuel mileage cause it might be a big issue for us and money might actually not be piled that high in front of us. Is this an unrealistic idea or are these big chunks of iron actual monuments to our success in life, I wonder how many people are willing to admit that the cost of fuel is something they have to concider and maybe the work we do ourselves is not purely because we like rolling in grease but rather the cost of farming out these jobs is financially unrealistic, I know we are all rich and have trophy wives on our arms right? ( maybe our trophy wives are trophys only to us and maybe we're all a little past our prime but how many of us will admit it) | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 975 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15  Rating: N/A |
Nutz...! I was hoping for a metaphysical thread Dan. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 276 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Maybe next time jack, I find that I have to keep things simple for some reason, any complications lead to interpretations that are, at best, loose translations of the original train of thought. At some point in the future I would enjoy a discussion on the realities of life with you and how they influence our decisions but at this point I'm not sure if I'm up to the challenge, I used to enjoy an ongoing discussion with a department head that was a friend of my fathers,, I spent countless hours listening to point and counter point before becoming brave enough to jump in, at that time my father was the longest serving regent on the board at michigan tech with 35 years of dedicated service time, he probably would still be there if his passing hadn't slowed him down conciderably at 88, in my family, education was a top priority, unfortunately, I probably burned far more brain cells than I produced, I gave some thought this fall towards going back and working towards a degree in anthropology but reality happened and my daughter pointed out that I already have both daughters in medical school and there just isn't any available money left for an endeavor that I probably wouldn't live to complete, she asserts that I'm probably one of the few that will be given a gold watch when I retire from attending classes lol. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1610 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.195.75.118  Rating: N/A |
"with good preventative maintanence most major repairs can be held to a minimum, is it just me or does that somehow make sence." The JOY! of most coaches is that they fail slowly. Few engines simply explode , most will die very slowly , giving ample time to ??? Replace with a running take out , is a couple of grand , at home. Same for almost everything else , plenty of warning is given. A burst break line might not announce it self in advance , but that's no big$$$$$ job. STOPPERS! are always a bummer in the middle of a trip , but as noted PM , oil sampeling a log book and some caution can be very useful. FF | ||
| Don Smith (Boxcarokie)
Registered Member Username: Boxcarokie Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2011 Posted From: 72.214.97.65 Rating: |
Wow, a 520 word paragraph? I will pass. DS | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 503 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
There are busnuts at either end of the spectrum and most are somewhere in the middle. One consideration if you are at the lower end, as am I, is to keep it simple. An older bus, mechanical engine, stick shift. It's hard to imagine any failure on a 4104/4106 that a resourceful busnut couldn't get rolling for a couple of thousand (with a little help from our friends). | ||
| Jim Sanders (Sandy)
Registered Member Username: Sandy Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2011 Posted From: 69.199.96.250  Rating: N/A |
Cody I am an older man and my friends and famely (what little is left) had a hard time under standing why i bought this pile of rust. If I never put it on the highway(too old) Then it is worth what i have spent on it. Hope the good LORD lets me hang around long enough to finish it..If not maybe one of my VERY VERY good friends at BNO will steal it from her. LOVE ALL OF YOU JIM | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 481 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 173.166.209.1  Rating: N/A |
If I had to pay someone else to do the work on my bus I wouldn't have the bus because I couldn't afford it..... Everything I do to the bus is on a musicians budget. Some things you do to make money but owning a bus is not one of them... . | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 278 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
This is kinda my thoughts, the great majority or mostly silent majority of us, depend heavily on our own skills or the help and skills of our friends in order to offset the cost of this hobby. (Fred, you missed a couple of the quotes lol) 520 words may seem somewhat long but I've done far worse from time to time, my thesis in school at one point was almost 32 pages long, but I did break it up into paragraphs and did check the spelling lol. I spent a couple of years during my tenure with the state rewriting policy and procedure for the MDOC, a task anyone that has had a public service job or job of that type can fully appreciate, so long winded statements are not unusual for me. My thoughts in regards to my question is that often the ones that can afford expensive repairs the least often claim the deepest pockets, the ones that have the option of vast reserves just get the work done and don't think twice about it, for me a second thought and even a third or fourth thought would be necessary if a major breakdown occured, as with most things, it's far cheaper to keep up with the little things before they become major things. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 976 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: N/A |
One other thing money cannot buy.... sweat equity there is no deeper frustration or greater satisfaction than the experience of doing it yourself for yourself.... unless, of course, you have a Honey to share it with. | ||
| Brian Evans (Bevans6)
Registered Member Username: Bevans6 Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 67.71.36.165 Rating: N/A |
For me the point of having the bus is to be able to work on it myself. And to have it ready and willing to work for me when I retire and want to see the world. I definitely think once, twice, many times about some repairs, others I just take as the cost of doing business and get on with it. A new engine or transmission I put in the former class, a new inversion valve or air bags I put in the latter. In many cases it's the physical effort required that I worry about as much or more than the cost (air bags are definitely in that category, they were hard to change from an effort expended point of view). Brian | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 561 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 97.91.68.252  Rating: |
Funny you should post this Cody as my wife and I were having this very discussion just this past weekend.She will be retiring in 2 years and we would like to take the old girl (the 4107 that is) for a tour around the US and Canada including Alaska. We were trying to figure what we needed for a "emergency repair budget". I feel that if I have 10K available on a credit line that should handle most mechanical emergencys. If it is going to be more than that a couple grand will pay to have it hauled back from most anywhere to home where we can plant flowers in it and write a memoire. More to the point is what was posted before and that is have it in as good a shape as possible before you take it on the road. John | ||
| Cable (Fe2_o3)
Registered Member Username: Fe2_o3 Post Number: 82 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 50.46.185.136  Rating: |
She who must be obeyed and I have had this conversation nearly every time we take the coach out. We bought the bus while I was still working. We got the mechanical and safety equipment working right away. Now when we travel we keep the title and a dollar in an envelope. If we can't afford the repair we will put the signed title and the dollar(so they won't be disappointed) on the seat and go home. With todays market another bus like ours is less than a rebuild. A nice one, of course, would be much more. I don't begrudge the time spent on her, and would do it again...Cable | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.127.173  Rating: N/A |
For us, it was a simple matter of making a dream come true. We've dreamed of owning a bus for a long time. I say dreamed, because it was out of our price range for a long time. Now that things have tanked, our dream is becoming our best long term option. Bus prices have hit rock bottom, so I figure it’s now or never. I lost my job in April and unable to find work and with our rainy day fund used up, we were unable to make any further house payments and looking at short-selling our home. We decided that full-timing in the bus just makes sense. We scrounged the funds (sold everything we could) and bought what we feel is the most for the least ($10,500). We were paying out almost $4500 a month. After all is said and done, we have trimmed that to $1100 (food, fuel, insurance, space rent, etc.) and that will be dropping more as well. We currently bring home $1800 a month so we should be able to start saving for PM and a rainy day fund again. After the house sells, we should have a little cash in our pocket as well (we owed less than it is worth, but a $1600 a month payment can work for you as well as against you). I have a friend that owns a Provost and for him, it’s a status symbol; he’s very proud of all the money he pours into it. If you were to listen to him, you’d think the more it costs him to own it, the happier he is. He keeps hinting how much he wants to come see mine, but I’m sure it will turn into a comparison and a chance for him to reiterate how much money he spends on his. At least mine is paid for and so far, all the work that’s been done on it since we got it, has been done by me and will continue to be done by my as long as I’m able. Hopefully before any major problems crop up, we’ll have the time and the funds to plan for it. This weekend, I have to go look at a 1956 PD4104 in Long Beach WA. It’s owned by a Vietnam Vet who had hoped to move into it to travel, but his health is too poor now and he spend most of his time making trips to the VA hospital in Portland. He needs to get it outta where it’s at and wants $1800 for it. Condition (ran and drove when last parked) unknown at this time; he doesn’t have the funds to work on it or drive it. It may end up as salvage if I can’t find it a new home. We are still plenty young enough and of fair health to own and enjoy our coach, but I’m sure a number of the ones out there are in far worse shape and facing the same fate. I’m 45 and my wife is 40. Our kids are 20, 15, 11 & 9. The oldest is off doing his thing and we are about to become grandparents. When I tell people that we are going to full-time or that we own a Class A or a converted bus, one thing that always gets said is that “You are too young” and “How can you afford one?” Most are surprised that we paid as little as we did. I figure if we do this while our kids are still young, maybe they’ll be bus owners someday too. As a comparison though, I know a lot of home owners that brag about all the money they spend on their homes: $55K Ceramic tile roof, $10K kitchen stove, $40K bathroom makeover, $3800 a year in property taxes, etc. It makes owning a bus look cheap! Just my two cents; which in today’s economy isn’t worth a wooden nickel. Well. A wooden nickel might be worth more. Rick | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.127.173 Rating: N/A |
Cable, If that ever happens, let me know; I need some spare parts ;) | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 279 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Rick, I appreciate your bravery and honesty, I feel your situation is far more common that people want to admit and not far from mine, I didn't have the big mortgage but my medical expenses far surpased a comfortable percentage of my income, I have a reasonable pension from my job with the state but at age 49 I was diagnosed with parkinsons and by age 50 I was forced into an early retirement, we had a couple of rental properties that we had to dispose of one by one to cover medical procedures and other things, after a major heart attack and the resulting long term problems I finally moved out to a home that I had built myself back in 1981, the choice was based on what it would cost me to live here or in town and town living was well over double. Luckily, I don't owe on the bus or the home so I can still enjoy a little comfort here and help my 2 kids with their university costs, their both in medical school thanks to student loans and other finacial aid along with work study and part time jobs. Had I not moved to the skanee house I would be in a difficult situation financially so thats why I started wondering how other busnuts manage with the economy in the dumpster, many loosing their jobs, some with medical problems, times are destroying families, and dreams of the golden years. By moving here to what basically amounts to a camp I can still meet my needs, not always my wants but my needs are ok and I can still enjoy what I like, I've been a DJ on nthe side for many years, playing in bars and doing weddings, we enjoy music, most of my gigs lately have been benefits for others that are neck deep in problems of one sort or another, but it makes me feel good to be able to spend a couple of hours of my time and by doing so it helps them raise money for whatever it is needed for, usually a medical problem or just restocking a food pantry, whatever is needed. Probably too many words again lol. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1602 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.144.101  Rating: |
Great perspective, Sandy. I agree with you...and many of the other thoughts on this thread. It is a "hobby" for most of us. How much one can afford , or is willing to put into it is relative, of course. When I first started in this, over 10 years ago now, I enjoyed every minute of the "conversion"...still do and as late as a few minutes ago I was engaged in changing the house water system on the coach. I am "not gainfully employed", am on SS, as is my wife; we have a small Notary Signing Agent business which provides some xtra and helpful funds for "the hobby" and trips. Bottom line, we enjoy every trip, cross our fingers, keep the coach as PM'd as possible and trust in the LORD! (see Proverbs 3:5 & 6)...and yes, we have our share of "problems".  .... ....but then isn't all of life that way? Hang in there...or not...as one will. FWIW RCB | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.127.173 Rating: |
Thanks Cody! We are just trying to make lemonade out of lemons, that’s all. We came through Portland on our way home and stopped by Camping World off of I-84 by Troutdale (Free overnight parking). It's located on a dead end street and there were 9 RV's parked along the sides of the street and only 1 in the parking lot. I spoke with one of the owners and asked why nobody was parking in the lot? He said that they were all living in their RV's and that just the people passing through were allowed to stay in the lot, so the rest of them park on the street and that they are left alone there. We felt pretty bad pulling in there in the bus. Everyone assumes we paid a small fortune for it and next to all those older Class B & C's, it only reinforced that perception. Many of them had paid $2K-$8K for vehicles that looked like they were on their last legs. Several people there told us that more and more people are ending up in the same situation too and some nights, there's no room for anyone else, but Wal-Mart down the road would let them stay a night, as long as it was only one night. We parked on the street that night too. I worked for the county here and I was able to collect what little was left of my PERS and we used it to help fund "Plan B": The Bus. It took long enough to get it that it couldn't help with the house, but it sure helped with the bus. Times are hard, but we still aim to make the best of it and enjoy ourselves. Joining this group has definitely helped. People like you and all the other wonderful folks on here make it all worth it. Unless you have really deep pockets, you’d be foolish to take on a bus conversion alone. Having this support group, this collection of experience, this gathering of bus nuts is what allows us to make it happen! I don’t think you have to be crazy to own a bus, but it helps. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 280 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I got a surprising amount of emails over this thread, most expressed the same problems but were reluctant to discuss it in the thread and are in the same boat, most lost their jobs and because of the perception that the economy would grow and grow, had over spent on their homes and ended up upside down and financially in trouble, my personal situation was brought on by medical problems that made my job with the state prison system impossible, all officers are required to qualify with all the weapons that might be needed, I was a supervisor but the policy still required me to meet the standards and the tremors would prevent me from qualifing so I was offered a medical retirement which would allow me to start collecting my pension early, hard to believe that I've been retired for 10 years as of next month, luckily with 28 years in I could get a reasonable pension and I was able to buy the 2 years needed to round it off at 30 and with my age at 50 it meant the magic 80 for a full pension. It means a relatively comfortable life as long as I watch the budget closely, this area is quite cheap to live but the winters can be brutal, property taxes are very low and I provide my own heat with a wood/coal stove and basically watch the pennies. I told my daughter that probably, I would be the best educated greeter at walmart but so far it hasn't come to that, yet lol. Technically I'm in no position to think I can afford to own a bus but I'm not sure I can afford not too either, but as was pointed out I get a great deal of satisfaction out of puttering with it. I want to be buried in it and am seeking 6 volunteers to serve as pallbearers lol. | ||
| Rick Cribbins (Rc38)
Registered Member Username: Rc38 Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 97.120.120.22 Rating: N/A |
Cody, You have a great attitude! I think that's the difference between success and failure in life. Thank you for sharing it with the rest of us. I wish more people had it. Too many people spend too much time looking for the negative and even more time sharing it instead. Rick | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 283 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
I've been very lucky, during my tenure with the state, especially the early years the state had a program for selected employees (you had to be approved by the director in Lansing) that if it, in some way would enhance or benefit the state, you could get some university time in on the states nickle, I decided to line the walls with paperwork and picked up a couple of degree's that allowed me a tremendous amount of latitude at work as far as qualifing for promotions and job selections, I'm very thankful for that. I've been very fortunate and appreciate the good luck I've had, I do have a few minor medical inconviences (parkinsons, onset MS, congestive heart failure and some liver damage related to my meds) but for the most part they don't slow me down and I see it as how many people have that many choices on how to croak lol. One regret I have is I trashed my dream of building a busground for traveling friends to stop and relax for a while, thanks to a helpful busnut that seemed to think I should call it a campground and get all the proper permits and all the headaches with meeting state compliance, so I downscaled the idea to have a couple of spaces for a bus or 2 to park, right now I like the fact that my property taxes are less than 400 a year and I like the deer that are in my back yard right now, this is living the good life. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1853 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.195.124.20  Rating: N/A |
Dan - I think that a lot of busnuts who full-time in their rigs (many of whom do not post on the various bbs's) are quite frugal with their available funds. Especially those with MUI Detroits. OTOH, the Marathon owners are not afraid to flaunt their ostentatiousness at every available opportunity. (Exception - MCI Marathons w/ MUI Detroits!) As the late Paul Harvey used to frequently say, "When your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep becomes your downfall." Me thinks an awful lot of folk are finally beginning to understand what Paul was saying - just as you've elaborated. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 286 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Paul Harvey, the working mans sage. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 748 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.60.176  Rating: N/A |
In the words of the Great Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitute my own"! | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 392 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213  Rating: N/A |
Dal. The voices in your head are not real even if they do have some good ideas | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 749 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.60.176 Rating: |
Les, the voices in my head got mad at me and won't talk to me anymore... they all talk to my wife now and she gives me the orders. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 980 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 72.211.145.15 Rating: |
IAN, ban all 3 of them..!!! or I'LL QUIT & hold Dal's breath until you do ! | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 393 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.225.213 Rating: N/A |
Be careful what you ask for Fids. You might "GET" it Speaking of Dal's breath, is it possible that is why the voices in his head got mad at him? Just wondering! Sorry for the little hijack Dan but it was just to hard to pass. Les | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 287 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
Some things are just to good to pass up. | ||
| Dan Clishe (Cody)
Registered Member Username: Cody Post Number: 290 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 206.51.117.126 Rating: N/A |
The good times have once again passed, I got a call this evening for a benefit, one that I was tempted to decline but just can't, there are 3 little kids involved, the guy spent his evening at a bar, one of his ways of passing his time before he goes home to kick the dog and beat his wife, he got pulled over, ended up trying to punch his way out of a ticket and is now facing some major jail time, the benefit is to give his wife and kids a chance at a new life, they want to go to her parents home in another state and we are going to give her her wish with the means to move, hopefully. As far as I'm concerned he's getting far less than he deserves, He'll probably do a few months and then he'll go looking for his family and history will repeat itself. This kind of a situation almost destroys me, nice lady with 3 great kids and their scarred for life because of an idiot that won't learn, the sad part is this cycle repeats itself over and over in towns and cities every day. This is not the first time I've done this type of benefit and each time they seem to get back together and it starts again, I guess we all have our own kind of reality. | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 342 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: |
The reality is-you must buy what you can afford to keep running. You don't mortgage everything you have to buy a Prevost then not have anything left over to run it. Not only do you have to be able to afford your initial purchase, but also the repairs to keep the beasty running. If you can afford a Prevost great! If you can afford a schoolie with a 350cu/in engine in it great! Good Luck, TomC |
