| Author | Message | ||
| Flexi Bus (65.146.18.119) Rating: N/A |
ok, heres a doozy for you guys. I have an 86 flexible metro bus (6v-92) that I have purchased in maryland. I am licensed in california. According to california motor vehicle code, I am allowed to drive a 40' 'housecar' with a class C license. But its technically not a 'housecar' until I get it out here, and the title changed to motorhome. so how do I go about transporting this bus with its current title and my current license. To compound matters, I will be taking the bus to pennsylvania, where some of my friends and I would like to do an initial rudimentary conversion on it in order to use it for a trip on the east coast this summer (PA>VT>PA). Doesnt make much sense for me to transport it to california and then back. Any thoughts on how to pull this off? The bus is definitely headed for california after this one trip. Ideally I would get a 30 day temp movement plate from MD, but I have seen no such thing on their DMV website. And if we happen to get pulled over in VT, its hard to explain that one, as it is not necessarily on the way to california. Any advice is appreciated! | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.72.157) Rating: N/A |
if you are in posesion of the title,get a temp. permit from Ca. dmv....when you get to MD. get rid of those seats,most troupers would say it is not for hire if it has no seats... | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.13)
Rating: N/A |
When faced with this problem, most people just drive the bus and hope they don't get a ticket. If you want to be legal, you need to get at least a Class B license. Once it is registered and passes as a motorhome then your Class C is good. And don't forget about insurance-- you will need commercial insurance to drive it home. If you only have RV coverage the insurance company might not want to honor a claim when they see it is still a commercial bus. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| John Rigby (24.174.238.253)
Rating: N/A |
What mike did to bring his MC9,S from NJ to California. He unscrewed a couple of seats turned them around. took a porta poty put it in that area with privey sheets around it. made two signs one for each front window/ private coach, and drove them home. Get RV insurance. John | ||
| Rodger in WA (64.70.24.67) Rating: N/A |
Except in a couple of states, including TX and NC which require a Class B drivers license for vehicles over 26K LBS GVWR and towing up to 10K LBS, your drivers license isn't the problem. The seats and bus classification are the obstacles to getting RV insurance and being legal to drive on a Class A driver license. Maybe pull the seats and register it as a motorhome in VT or PA until you get it to CA? | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (67.136.117.49)
Rating: N/A |
Firstly, once you stick a temporary tag on the bus, it is no longer a commercial vehicle. You cannot operate a vehicle commercially on a temp tag. Remove any license plates already on the vehicle. I waterproofed the temp tag and attached it to the reverse side of the license plate as my truck has no rear window to stick it in. Secondly, according to the California Highway Patrol, they don't care how many seats it has, it is the number of people you are carrying, no more than 16 including driver. Thirdly, remove any commercial names painted on the outside and remove ALL DOT marking letter and numbers. Do NOT stop at Port of Entries or Weigh stations, you are not commercial. You are a private individual and have bought the vehicle for private use. Fourthly, you can download a 3 day temp tag from the Arizona DMV website for a dollar with a credit card. I don't think they care where you are from or going to as long as you have the Vin#. If you download it on a Wednesday, it will give you 3 clear working days which will cover you until midnite the following Monday. Finally, depending upon your home State where you have you driving license issued, will control what license you need. Since the empty bus will probably not weigh more than 26,000 lbs, there doesn't seem the need to have any supplimental endorsements other than an air brake classification if required. Arizona doesn't require any additional endorsememts at this time. So if you are legal in California, where you live, then there should be no problems en route. PS: You can cover another base by sticking a visible sign in the window (or on the body) by the entrance door which says "PRIVATE NOT FOR HIRE" as some States require this. All this info was gained from the California & Arizona Highway Patrols. Hope this helps. Peter. | ||
| Bob (Bobb) (207.216.171.182)
Rating: N/A |
My experience is: Maryland still lives in the dark ages. The rules change by the mile. Just get in and head for your destination, and don't draw attention to yourself. Wave at everybody. Be careful about using temp permits from states that your transaction has no connection with. They may not have juristiction or reprocity. When I brought my bus back from MD, on the advice of the MD State patrol, I used the vendors plates, had a notarized letter of permission, and a rider policy from my own insurance company. The only problem I had was a misinformed commercial truck cop? in Montana. | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.62)
Rating: N/A |
Normally the requirement for a Commercial Class B license is based on the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), NOT actual weight. So even if you have the seats out and "Private Coach" written all over it, it is still over 26,000lbs. GVW and requires a Class B license w/ air brake endorsement to operate. The exception is if it an RV-- then in most states only a Class C is required to operate it (the others are where a non-commercial Class B is required). | ||
| madbrit (67.136.117.49) Rating: N/A |
Once the vehicle has a temp tag, it is no longer regarded as a commercial vehicle and therefore cannot carry a load, therefore the GVWR is not in force. Therefore, if it doesn't weigh more than 26,000 lbs, you can drive it unless you need an airbrake endorsement as per your State's licensing requirements. Again, this info came from 2 of the most strict Highway Patrols in the country. For insurance, I got a binder through RVAA from Progressive. State Farm would issue me insurance too, they did so on my Freightliner. Yes, it is commercial rated because of the size of the truck, but it is not expensive at $50+/- per month. A temp tag covers you in all States, it would be impossible to know which State you could drive in and which you could not. Anyway, most of the trip would probably be on freeways and they are Federally controlled. Why make a simple exercise so complicated? Peter. | ||
| T Gojenola (66.58.192.10)
Rating: N/A |
Here's another thought that I have never seen offered as a solution to this common problem. Did you ever notice how many coaches there are with a big sign in the window, or displayed on the destination sign: "Out of Service." You might think this is to keep people from getting aboard, but in reality, it's so a mechanic (sans CDL) can drive it to the barn or some contracted repair facility. May not work everywhere, but that's how its done by the local transit authority and charter operators in Anchorage. A CDL is required for vehicles operated in Commercial Service. I would just make sure its out of service and boldly displayed as such - and go. tg | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.62)
Rating: N/A |
Pete-- I've have read through the vehicle code and I have found an exception for RV's from commercial regulations, but I have never seen a license exemption for a commercial vehicle just because it has a temporary tag. You quote two highway patrol officers(?) as your source, but they are not the most knowledgeble people-- they only gave you their opinion. If you can find what you are saying written in the vehicle code please point it out and I (we) will be in your debt! As far as a mechanic test driving a bus with a regular license, California used to allow this practice many years ago but now all mechanics who test drive commercial vehicles with a GVW over 26,000 lbs need a commercial license just like everybody else. --Geoff | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.38.166)
Rating: N/A |
If it were not for the fact that u want to run all over the East Coast in an un-licensed vehicle before bringing the bus home, I would say get it and go and quit worrying about all the technicalities. It appears that u want ure cake and eat it too. I would suggest that u register it and buy some plates for it; I don't think any cop is going to buy your bs that your going home out West when your heading North and East. You should be able to get a temp from Md, although I know that they have very stringent inspections for licensing, so u might consider getting one in PA, even if u have to use one of the friends as a "temp owner". | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.62)
Rating: N/A |
I've seen this discussion many times before and there is never consensus. But the best reasoning I have seen is just to go ahead and study for the test and get a commercial license! That way you are not only covered driving the bus home, you will be better off because you will know how to do a walk around inspection of the vehicle and have an idea of how everything (including the air brakes) work. The only hard part might be finding a bus/truck to practice driving with and using for the driving test. You also need to bring a properly licensed driver with you when you take the driving test. You also have to have a medical certificate. | ||
| jimmci9 (68.24.2.45) Rating: N/A |
geoff is right.... you need to go ahead and get a CDL.... its an easy test to pass...and finding a class 7 or 8 vehicle is easy.... rent 1 if necessary.... than there's no worry about it... also license it before you leave...it can be done over the phone... find a dealership near your home to work with you on the paperwork.... don't try to shortcut stuff... it will come backm and haunt you... the other alternative is to hire a professional delivery service... with professional drivers, they will handle the paperwork also....remember, now you're playing with big boy toys, you gotta pay big boy prices....my $0.02 worth...jim | ||
| madbrit (67.136.117.49) Rating: N/A |
Geoff, I asked at the department offices not from 2 officers. They said that under the temp tag, one cannot transport goods or paying passengers, hence the vehicle is temporarily out of commercial use, hence no GVW is in force. It becomes a regular vehicle and it's unladen weight comes into play, not its GVW. Makes perfect sense to me. As for the reference to driving around the countryside, that is exactly what a temp tag is designed for. You take the vehicle to one place for work, then to another, then to another until it's finished and ready to be put into service. In Arizona one is restricted to four 3 day temp tags and one 30 day per year per vehicle. No CDL needed, don't forget, if you have a CDL any penalties such as speeding and the unthinkable DUI, will be much higher and cause the possible loss of the CDL permanently. You may also have to stop at all weigh stations and fill out log books etc. This was discussed a while back and a CDL holder mentioned that having the license bound you to its rules and regulations whether you wanted it to or not. So be careful what you couple yourselves to. No CDL needed to operate the motorhome or a private commercial vehicle under 26000 lbs. I don't need one for my class 8 Freightliner, but best I don't have a load on it making me over 26000 lbs. Minimum government is best. Peter. | ||
| DonTX/KS (66.82.9.83)
Rating: N/A |
I am not sure you can back that all up with references Peter. I think what it weighs and what the GVWR is are two separate things as concerns the the CDL rules, NEVER do they talk about what something actually weighs, only GVWR, and any class 8 Freightliner sure has over 26,000 GVWR. I have had a CDL since the day they first existed, and have been a DOT cop, and I have never heard of having to stop with a CDL at weigh stations or fill out a log book just because I had a CDL. In fact when running a weigh station, I would have laughed a lot at someone that did. I think we decided that you cannot drive quite as drunk if you have a CDL, I don't drive drunk anyway so what do I care? I know Geoff and Jim have CDL's too, and I bet they never stop in their non commercial rigs or make a logbook, or have been hassled by extra rules you speak of. By the way, just what the heck is that "private commercial vehicle" you speak of? That almost sounds like doubletalk, or something in line with other such phrases of "freezer burn" or "military intelligence". | ||
| Larry (208.18.102.45) Rating: N/A |
Do you have a Drive Away plate in your state, if so use that. We are a drive away service, and you can be too, ask for MO form 2277, Good deal with no questions. Cost 40.00 per plate & good from Nov-Nov. Missouri info : DRIVEAWAY OPERATIONS - This act modifies the definition of "driveaway operation" and "driveaway operator" to include: (1) The movement of any vehicle or vehicles, not owned by the transporter, constituting the commodity being transported, by a person engaged in the business of furnishing drivers and operators for the purpose of transporting vehicles in transit from one place to another by the drive away or tow away methods. (2) The movement of a motor vehicle by any person who is lawfully engaged in the business of transporting or delivering vehicles that are not the person's own and vehicles of a type otherwise required to be registered, by the driveaway or towaway methods, from a point of manufacture, assembly or distribution or from the owner of the vehicles to a dealer or sales agent of a manufacturer or to any consignee designated by the shipper or consignor. The act provides that driveaway license plates may only be used for the purpose of transporting vehicles in transit. Driveaway license plates may not be used by tow truck operators transporting wrecked, abandoned, improperly parked, or burned vehicles. The act extends the area for certain land improvement contractors' commercial motor vehicles from 25 miles to 50 miles. This act is similar to SCS/SB 757 (2004)(SA 1)(Sections 301.010, 301.069, and 390.020). | ||
| Larry (208.18.102.45) Rating: N/A |
http://www.dort.mo.gov/mvdl/formorder/ At the bottom where it says other, type in Mo Drive Away form 2277 and number of forms you want, maybe one for you and good friend or wife and you are in the drive away business. | ||
| madbrit (67.136.117.49) Rating: N/A |
Don, As usual you enter into the middle of an ongoing topic and mix everything up. Try reading what people actually write before replying, okay. Once again we have the problem with labels. They say never call your conversion a bus when you go to register it. In this case, never call the vehicle on the temp tag a commercial vehicle and therefore it doesn't need a CDL as it's NOT conbsidered a commercial vehicle when it's on those tags. How many more times do I have to repeat myself. This is what 2 different Highway Patrol Departments told me. If you know different, then show the references. I was refering to another group contributer who stated these things, I don't have a US CDL and therefore am blissfully unaware of its rules. The discussion was probably before you even joined this group it was so long ago. We were talking about commercial vehicles being in private or non-commercial use. The term "Private Commercial" was used by my local MVD and State Farm. It refers to a commercial rated vehicle being no longer in commercial service and owned and driven by a private individual. It still has to pay heavy use tax as it is capable of carrying a load. I can and did reduce the load capacity (GVW) on my Freightliner to under 26,000 lbs when I registered it, now I suppose you are going to tell me I can't do that. Just because you say you did this job and that job, it doesn't mean you know everything. You have already intimated in the past that you have been that over officious cop on numerous occassions. All I can relate is what I was told by current officials when I drove my bus home and when I move my Freightliner. That's my story and I am sticking to it. This subject is done to death. Peter. | ||
| Don KS/TX (66.82.9.52)
Rating: N/A |
Ian is going to get you for that! You could have just said "I don't have any references" instead of all the personal attacks. You might enjoy reading the rules sometime. | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.72.109) Rating: N/A |
everybody gets pissed off at everybody...weeee....go to Calif. dmv & get your trip permit...don't think it will be a 30 day tho | ||
| Jimmci9 (68.24.3.104) Rating: N/A |
hey..... on a lighter note..... i made a nice picnic table from all the 2x4's i removed from "the man show"...pics available on request.... | ||
| madbrit (67.136.117.49) Rating: N/A |
Don, No personal attacks from me, just setting you straight as you seem to be back to your old self once again. Welcome back......... LOL. But it can be very annoying when people jump in to the middle of something and mix it all up by commenting on what they think they have read. By the way, how are the brown socks doing? And two dogs is back from his visit to the bowling alley, hope he didn't catch distemper or hard pad from all those old shoes he has been handing out....... LOL. Happy Fourth to all. Peter. | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.97.241) Rating: N/A |
Think he got athletes fingers | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.97.241) Rating: N/A |
got to remember not to pick my nose  | ||
| Don KS/TX (66.82.9.22)
Rating: N/A |
Now you are being nice again Peter. As you well know I have been around the bus boards LONG before this one was even thought of, and the CDL, GVWR etc topic has been around far longer. It always has gotten these interesting "opinions", simply because the states are so different in their application (or non application) of mostly Federal law, which has changed and been interpreted many places. Everytime someone squeaks by the cracks with a new system in their state, it becomes "fact" too often. Being a dual Kansan/Texan has got enough differences to keep me busy alone. Brown socks still need a wash job I think. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.248.72.178)
Rating: N/A |
I go away for a few months and check back in, what do I see but all the usual suspects in a giant pissing contest. Who brought the beer? Gary | ||
| TWO DOGS (65.179.192.243) Rating: N/A |
can we count on you going away again ???? | ||
| jimmci9 (68.24.0.146) Rating: N/A |
welcome back gary!!!.... i got moved to victoria ok... 'ol holiday rambler made the trip great...hope you make your trip in the 'bird ok...you got my number if you need it... i'm off for another week!!!!! | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.248.72.178)
Rating: N/A |
Aw, dogs, and I was expecting such a fine welcomeback message from you... Jim--I fly back on Friday, have to hang a bit more tin (two pieces), Seal about 8 feet of roof edge and install a window and I'm off. Bus is full of my "Big Tools" Welders, generator, drill press, etc... So it's a moving van at the moment. Just so that I can stay on topic... I did as Geoff said, and hoped I didn't get stopped, my delivery cruise was only 600 miles though. I Drove another 600 miles to Oregon and registered it there, where you could register a armored personnel carrier as a Housecar with no questions. I am legally an Oregon resident though. The fact that my bus "Looked" like a coach, just with a lot of windows, didn't hurt though.... Progressive sold me insurance sight unseen, over the phone. Now that I live in Detroit, I'll leave the Oregon plates on the rig until someone hassles me about it. The 24' Wells cargo I bought to tow behind it also has Oregon plates. Now that the move is almost over, I'll be back on this board, at least as long as my converting lasts... Gary | ||
| gabby (4.246.27.38)
Rating: N/A |
I drove my 4905 from Portland Maine to Redding Ca with the seats in it and had no problems with the law. I also help transport one from Ill with no problem. Just pick it up and head for Ca. | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.65.208) Rating: N/A |
There ya' go...a hundred different ideas...last one ,if ya' got the balls,just get in & drive it...... | ||
| Don KS/TX (66.82.9.12)
Rating: N/A |
I say go for it too. As long as your story is ALWAYS that it is all your own stuff, in your own vehicle that you are moving because of relocation, there is nothing to be hassled about. I am glad you are back Gary, I now have to be on the road for the next three months, and will need your help keeping everyone in line while I am between computer connections. See ya in about a week Jim, I will honk going thru Victoria! | ||
| jimmci9 (68.24.1.202) Rating: N/A |
lets do lunch!!!! | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.98.186)
Rating: N/A |
Hey, thanks Don. You're heading up to KS then? I should be driving across the top of the country in da bus in about two weeks on I-94. Gary | ||
| Don KS/TX (66.82.9.47)
Rating: N/A |
Might see ya Gary, I am heading from Kansas down to S Texas for a fast trip, then up to Canada and mostly just goof off all summer roaming the USA roads, might even get up to Ian country too. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.36.120)
Rating: N/A |
Don: What the hell did u do, find THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH!? | ||
| Don KS/TX (66.82.9.62)
Rating: N/A |
Yep! | ||
| TWO DOGS (65.179.201.76) Rating: N/A |
life is short,grab the gusto when ya' can,huh Don, | ||
| Don KS/TX (66.82.9.17)
Rating: N/A |
I guess you know my philosophy on life TD. | ||
| tim (165.121.128.217)
Rating: N/A |
Flexi Bus, You wrote: "I have an 86 flexible metro bus (6v-92) that I have purchased in maryland. I am licensed in california. According to california motor vehicle code, I am allowed to drive a 40' 'housecar' with a class C license. But its technically not a 'housecar' until I get it out here, and the title changed to motorhome. so how do I go about transporting this bus with its current title and my current license." Opinion only, but I think you'll be fine running California plates on your rig UNTIL you get into CA. Set it up minimally as a motorhome (housecar in your case) with a portapotty, table, sleeping mattress, Coleman stove and ice cooler. There is no reason for another state's peace officer to challenge your plates as it is would not be registered in his jurisdiction. When you get into CA you may sweat till you reach home. Timnvt | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A |
Flexi-Bus After all this discussion there is one thing that you need to do and that is READ THE LAW YOURSELF! All of us here seem to be well meaning and somewhat informed, but "somebody told me" will not get you out of trouble. Know the exact law and you are in a much better place in the event some narrow minded law enforcement officer (was that polite enough) gives you some grief. It seems that most of the time, our little situation with former buses being converted, does not play well with the local LE folks, and that is where being well informed and polite will get you a long way. BTW - in ALL 50 STATES - the applicability of the drivers license (class and privleges) and the title and registration (classification) of the vehicle rule no matter what state you are in. My Missouri operators license and my RV-titled-and-registered coach are just fine - no matter where I go. Texas is different as are the other 48 states (besides MO and TX). You mentioned a little trip before California? If you create a motorhome out of the coach and follow the rules, you may be further ahead. Read the rules and know them! Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.185.65.54) Rating: N/A |
so he's supposed to learn ALL the rules, for all the states he's going to drive thru ...?? bet you you couldn't learn that in a two year college course | ||
| Bulldogie (69.4.194.38)
Rating: N/A |
Doug is correct, even though the local cops might not know the rules you can ask them to check with their office and they will find that the state you have a drivers license rules are what apply in your case not their states rules. I was sleeping in a parking lot in Maryland (spelled wrong on porpise) when TWO DOGS (as in cops) banged on my bus bumper and wanted to know why I didn't have any veh license or travel permit. I explained that in Arkansas you have 30 days to get the veh registured and you don't have to get a permit. To say the least they were not happy after they checked my insurance on the bus, sales papers (had bought the bus the day before)and with their office HEHEHE. The next morning I woke up and figured out where I was and knew that they would be eating donuts or getting their daily traffic quotas so I got out of town HEHEHE. Never had any more trouble from then on, although when I broke down a state cop in one of the states was real nice and go me some help. Happy bussin, Bulldogie |