| Author | Message | ||
| Matthew J Rutkowski (Matt_rutkowski)
Registered Member Username: Matt_rutkowski Post Number: 58 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 98.235.157.220 Rating: N/A |
Hello all, Gary I was wondering what you ended up doing with your hubs. George and Gary I was wondering of the possability of changing my drive and steer hubs drums etc to fit a standard bolt pattern. I just hadanother wheel leak leaving me without a spare and I want Aluminum wheels anyway . So any advice or help would be very much apperciated Thanks Guys Matt | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 89 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 209.112.222.154  Rating: N/A |
Hi Matt, How have you been? I searched all over the place trying to find new or used hubs and drums for my bus with no luck. I am related to the local Peterbuilt parts manager up here in Anchorage, he searched and searched untill he gave up. We have a really heavy duty rear end, and apparently everything he could find with standard 10 lug was way to small for our spindle and brake size. He said that doesn't mean there isn't something out there, just he couldn't find it. I ended up taking my hub and adapter over to our local machine shop. He turned down the hub and milled the surface. Then he surfaced the adapter and built a collar to align the adapter on the hub. He thought this was a better fit than it was in the first place. I checked the other side to see if it was working loose, but there was no problems there. So I decided not to have it machined. With the adapters, I would suggest checking them once a year just to be on the safe side. They are a very well built adapter, and probably wouldn't have given me a problem if I would have checked it. This mistake cost 750.00 for towing 900.00 for machine work and 150.00 for the inner seal. You can get Alcoa rims, but the adapters are cheaper and you will be able to get rims anywhere. If you could find hubs and drums, that would be the best. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1299 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.29.79.160 Rating: N/A |
Hello Matt, I was lucky enough to get a bus with seven wheels, and so far haven't had any trouble. When I looked at McLaughlin's bus about five years ago, he had six Alcoas made to fit our bolt pattern. They were made for 12.5/22.5 radial tires. He also kept two of the original steel wheels and 30 year old bias ply tires as spares. It would be interesting to know what the difference in cost is between custom made Alcoas, and standard Alcoas with four adapters? There was some discussion many years ago about steel radial tires being hard on rims designed for bias play tires, I don't know if there was any substance to it. G | ||
| Matthew J Rutkowski (Matt_rutkowski)
Registered Member Username: Matt_rutkowski Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 98.235.157.220 Rating: N/A |
I have spoken to both accuride and alcoa about the cost of custom built wheels but they said it could not be done for 1 reason or another probably cost? I have a guy that says he can drill "blank "24.5 wheels to fit but he has been very non responsive to me in the past several months. So here I am ?? Where can adapter plates be bought? I have original wheels with no plates . | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 209.112.222.154 Rating: N/A |
Matt, Here is a picture of my front adapters, they are about the same as the rear ones. The machine shop said that they could make them for about 800.00 each. That is here in Alaska and the shop gets 95.00 hr. I would bet that you could get them built down there for less. You might have to pull at least one front and one rear hub and take it to them, or if they have room, you could bring your bus there and pull the wheels off. You can always find used Alcoas to offset the cost. I was told by Royce at Western Peterbuilt pretty much the same thing that George just said about the rims designed for bias ply tires.   (Message edited by g-dude on November 19, 2011) | ||
| H3-40 (Ace)
Registered Member Username: Ace Post Number: 1301 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.87.105.71  Rating: N/A |
May if your ever in central Florida, I know a guy that could it for you. I have no idea what he would charge but he's very good and quick! He bulls a lot of airplane junk and that has to be right on. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1300 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.29.79.160 Rating: N/A |
Gary or Matt, Do either of you know what the hub opening and stud spacing is on our wheels? I'm way away from mine, and a tape measure isn't quite accurate enough anyhow. I know they're 24.5 stud-piloted Budd wheels, and the new ones don't need to be as wide as the originals, and we could run 12/24.5 radials. Has anybody tried a Van Hool wheel? G | ||
| Matthew J Rutkowski (Matt_rutkowski)
Registered Member Username: Matt_rutkowski Post Number: 60 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 166.147.118.54 Rating: N/A |
George according to my tape the bolt circle is 13.25 and the bore is 10amd 5 eighths Wichita would roughly convert to 336.55mm bolt circle and 266.999 hub bore | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 207 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 75.226.50.156 Rating: N/A |
??? Who built the diff. who built the front axle and spindles? I maybe mistaken but some of these bus parts came from FWD truck/ or manfucters of fire trucks and some military trucks. Matt check with Coleman's surplus, they may know who buys the trucks/big stuff. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1301 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.29.79.160 Rating: N/A |
Ralph, They're Rockwell, and they're BIGGER than anything you ever saw! If memory serves me right, the brake drums on the drive and steer are 20 inch. One look at where the rear axle housing mounts on the air beam platforms, and you would understand. G | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 91 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 209.112.222.154 Rating: N/A |
Like George said, they are a really big Rockwell. They are very similar to the ones in the big bed trucks and wench trucks in the oil fields. You would be able to find the steel wheels new because most of the heavy oil service trucks up here use them. But I'm not sure about the aluminum. | ||
| Dirk De Bakker (Kelvin12)
Registered Member Username: Kelvin12 Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 124.149.177.41  Rating: N/A |
G'Day all, Do these spacer rings effect your insurance. They are illegal over here in OZ. Just curious. Dirk | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 208 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 75.211.17.94 Rating: N/A |
The only reason for the spacers is for Aluminum wheels? Why not get a set chromed? And yes those trucks are what I was talking about. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1302 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.29.79.160 Rating: N/A |
Dirk and Ralph, They aren't spacers, they are adapters. Nobody inspects most private vehicles in the US, and they don't show anyhow. The standard bolt pattern on these is 13.25 inches, compared to what we are used to on all the other buses. A standard truck wheel will fit everything else MCI made/makes, except the drive and steer axles of an MC6. Another exception is Van Hool, with their large center bore and bolt pattern, but their tires are standard. Look at Gary's top picture, the large holes in the back fit the MC6 pattern, the small studs on the front fit the standard truck and bus pattern. This problem has been ongoing since Greyhound sold the fleet in 1979, and Goodyear and Firestone stopped making 13.5 X 24.5 bias ply tires for them. It would be interesting to know what Carrs did for tires? G | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 209.112.222.154 Rating: N/A |
It would be interesting to know what Carrs did for tires? G George, I'll call Walter, he bought one of Carrs buses and it still has the steel wheels on it right now. He is in the process of installing a new motor in it right now. Rumar is... The bus that went to California is going to be in a movie and the other bus he thought was bought by the Grayhound museum. | ||
| Matthew J Rutkowski (Matt_rutkowski)
Registered Member Username: Matt_rutkowski Post Number: 61 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 98.235.157.220 Rating: N/A |
Ken Carr told me that he had 9" wide steel wheels manafactured with our lug pattern for his fleet and he used 12R24.5 on them. I cannot seem to find any new wheels for our lug pattern. If I could I might just buy them and have them chromed. Vanhool wheels would probably fit however the center bore is larger and they are all Hub Piloted. So if you where me wich option would yougo with? Keep in mind that my father inlaw is a retired tool and die maker with a mill and lathe in his basement. A. Buy vanhool aluminum wheels for it and get him to cut the stud holes so they will work as a stud piloted set.If thats all that needs to be done to them ?? B. Have him make adapter plates to fit a standard lug pattern Both of these options are feasable for him to do. Im looking for safer NOT cheaper! Is that all that needs to be done to wheels to make them "Stud Piloted"? Thanks for all the help guys Matt PS Gary can you email me as many pics as you have of your adapters I was wondering how thick they are also? Thanks again | ||
| Gary Seay (Gdude)
Registered Member Username: Gdude Post Number: 93 Registered: 6-2010 Posted From: 209.112.222.154 Rating: N/A |
Matt, In my opinion, the steel wheels designed for radial tires would be the safest. The main reason I say this is... You can easily check your wheels and make sure they are tight. With the adapters, you have to pull your wheels to check the inner nuts. Other than that, the adapters are very good. My adapter plates are designed to be a snug fit (hub piloted) and then the wheels would be stud piloted. If you go with the adapters, you really want to have the hubs surfaced, that way you know it will be a true fit with the adapter. I think that was the problem I had. After 10,000 miles it wore in and the inner nuts were loose. Had I have checked them, I wouldn't have lost my wheels going down the highway. My brother inlaw at Western Peterbuilt said he orders the steel rims all the time for the oil fields. But he didn't specify if they were hub piloted or stud. My guess is they are hub piloted. I'll ask him when I get a chance. The only pictures I have of the adapter plates are the ones I posted. I'll email them to you so you can blow them up. I almost forgot, my adapters are approx 2-1/2" thick. I never actually measured the thickness. It just has to be thick enough to allow for the locknut and a good enough amount of meat under it. (Message edited by G-dude on November 20, 2011) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1304 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.29.79.160 Rating: N/A |
Matt, If I remember correctly, 5 years ago when I was looking at McLaughlin's bus, he told me he had Western Wheel Co. in Los Angeles make the 6 Alcoas for his bolt pattern. I am VERY sure they were 22.5 diameter, and they obviously fit. Personally I would have gone with 24.5 diameter for 12R24.5 radials, but I think he wanted to keep all of his tires the same. He sold it to Elliott, who has since sold it, and I don't know where it is now. I'm doing some looking in LA, and will report back on what I find. G | ||
| Matthew J Rutkowski (Matt_rutkowski)
Registered Member Username: Matt_rutkowski Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 98.235.157.220 Rating: N/A |
Hi guys, I have an update! After lots of research I have found a factory accuride/firestone drawing for the 6 wheels that shows a 13 and 3/16 bolt circle thats within 1/2 mm of 335mm and after talking to Kenn Carr Charlie Dalton Accuride Alcoa 2 wheels guys in CA and 1 in MN Know that a vanhool wheel WILL Fit! However will needdrilled to be hub piloted. So im expecting pricing tommorow for 10 on 335 24.5 by 8.25. Charlie Dalton told me that they were actually narrowing thier mc6 wheels to correct this Lug hole to lug hole cracking problem. So after all day on the phone today and half the day yesterday i feel like Im finally getting somewhere. Matt If anyone wants this very rough looking drawing ill send it to you and do you guys think that the 8.25 width will be too narrow for my 12r's Mann wheels will also fit I think (Message edited by matt rutkowski on November 22, 2011) | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 580 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Matt Have you looked at the wheels that Flyer is using on their newer transits? I believe that their axles are made by MAN. | ||
| Dal Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 799 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 98.20.59.175  Rating: N/A |
Matt, if MAN wheels will fit, will European Neoplan wheels fit? Neoplans built in the US used standard North American wheels, but after looking at Sean's bus, I noticed that it had the same wheels that some of the MAN transit buses I looked at did. I think Setra also used that wheel pattern. Good Luck! DF | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1297 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.139  Rating: N/A |
My Neoplan uses the international standard wheel, which is a 335mm bolt circle and hub piloted. (The US and Canada are the oddballs when it comes to wheels, internationally speaking.) Here in the US, I get my wheels from ABC Bus, who is the distributor for Van Hool -- they use the international wheel on their US-spec coaches. But these are the same wheels used all over Mexico, Central, and South America as well as EMEA. (Lots of vehicles in Mexico, of course, come from the US, and so have US-spec hubs.) I would worry about chamfering a hub-pilot aluminum wheel to accept stud-pilot nuts. These wheels are heat-treated after the holes are machined for the studs, and tooling treated metal can lead to problems. Remember too that these wheels are designed to carry the load on the hub bore, not the stud holes -- you'll be asking a lot of the now-weakened metal in that area. This would be one instance where I would call Alcoa or Accuride and ask their engineering team for advice. It's quite possible that they might require annealing of the wheels before chamfering. FWIW. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com |