| Author | Message | ||
| Adame (129.82.228.252) Rating: N/A |
Below there is a conversation on whether to use glue as well as screws to hold the floor to the frame. I'm thinking that I'll use glue, (Sikaflex) and no screws to hold my floor down. I think that sound energy would travel through the screws and cause the floor to act like a large drum head. No experience here, just guessing. Any comments? | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
I'd never trust anything organic to hold my floor to a frame for a "permanent" installation. I got to replace my entire house's hardwood flooring to the tune of twenty grand because some cheapass contractor used "the proper" glue and not nails to hold it down when the house was built. What a mess. Warped and unattached flooring everywhere, after 9 years, and the house doesn't have wheels!! (No, I didn't install it in the first place, I bought the house from the original owner) Glue *smells* of "stick & Staple" (pun intended). To get a decent bond the Sikaflex would have to be squeezed thin enough that sound dampning would not occur anyway. And all you'd have to do is get things wet and see why most people use screws for this purpose... Just my opinion...  | ||
| BrianMCI96A3 (65.41.212.58) Rating: N/A |
I agree with Gary, I think it might work fine for a wall, but with foot traffic, spills etc. I think over time you'd have the bus floor doing the same thing as the flooring in Gary's house. Brian | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.244.207) Rating: N/A |
The squeaks you may get from the nails (or screws) as you drive down the road with the body shifting and twisting may prove to be impossible to live with. That's what I was told when I had to decide to glue or nail/screw the finish hardwood floor down in our stick+staple. So it was glued down with a very heavy layer of poly type glue. I did the passenger and driver area with a different type of hardwood, directly on top of the existing plywood, rather than use luan as was done with the rest of the RV. On that area I used the basic tubed construction glue. No squeaks; no movement; more sound-deadening with that heavy layer of rubber looking glue between the flooring and base... and it's still down after two years. The bad? There was a small section of bedroom area that did not stick. My fault... I didn't weigh it down where the original floor had a decline. I should have made it all level, or cut a sill to allow for the unevenness. I didn't and it didn't stick. But if nails or screws were used, the noise would be horrendous. I also used construction glue for the bathroom tiles, grouting in between. With a coating of poly over it, it was impervious to anything we tossed at it. Suit yourself, but the new glues are amazing stuff. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.38.143)
Rating: N/A |
The new adhesives are amazing and: every damn one of them are highly subject to failure. I can't imagine not screwing the floor down; the more the better. To prevent any squeaking the wood should be isolated from the metal at the anchor points with a heavy application of adhesive or cushion barrier. The wood against the steel structure is what causes the squeaking, not screws thru the wood and into steel. Unlike a manufactured motor home, buses have something to anchor to under the wood floor. As Gary points out, just how do u propose to compress your adhesive under a 32 Sq.ft surface that distributes any force applied to it on the surface. Save yourself some grief, regret, and future work: use adhesive and screws. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Addendum to my first post- In my bus I have standard 3/4" tongue and groove oak flooring in 4" width, nailed down in the classic fashion with flooring nails, into plywood that's screwed to the frame (screws coming up from underneath into the wood). NO glue. Never a squeak. Never a problem. If you are totally paranoid about squeeks, use some sikaflex or other glue that will remain resilient (NEVER use junk like liquid nails that hardens and cracks) BUT use nails, bolts or screws as the primary holding mechanism, and use the "goo" only to satisfy your mind that a badly done fastening job won't squeak anyway. And then don't even consider taking any of it up at a later date or whattta mess you'll have!! Still just my opinion... | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.249) Rating: N/A |
What about those "floating" floors that so many are using in the conversions? To use such a touchy and difficult product as SikAFlex on something that might have to come up again is crazy and you have limited adjustment time before it freezes movement. Why have the hassle. Nails are easier but there are a lot of converters that have had good luck with the "floaters" too. Especially nice if you have hatches to hide and require access to later. "Imagine" cd | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.240.95) Rating: N/A |
I wouldn't put down anything but a rug if you plan to take it up to service what's underneath. Pergo, or any of the interlocking "floating" floors are not designed to be lifted at whim. They are easier to remove and replace than a non-floating floor (since no nails or glue secure it), but they are not designed to be a "rug". I imagine the weight of 3/4 hardwood over 3/4 ply added to the original ply floor would near exceed the weight of the seats and luggage rack that's been removed. Add to that, the weight of all the rest of the components for "recreational living", and I'll bet you'll have one heavy mutha. I used oak hardwood flooring that's about 1/4 inch thick and it was tongue and groove. It's designed to be nailed, stapled, or glued; I chose glue. Neither wood or the resin floors are impervious to water. Get a hardwood floor wet enough and you'll have buckling and lifting and I don't care how many nails you've used to hold it down. If you don't think screws can squeak, get one wet in a block of finished hardwood, let it sit a week or two and try to unscrew it. Then go pry the cat off the ceiling. If you get the resin floor wet enough, long enough, you'll have stains and possible rotting of the floor under it. The resin floor (Pergo) sits on a layer of foam rubber and that can rot or hold mold if not kept reasonably dry. (One bus conversion I looked at, had nails and screw points poking through the ceilings of the bays. Nice! "watch your head, honey") On the bus, I plan to use a "Pergo" type wood grain floating floor material. The foam rubber base will add insulation and floor will be easy to clean. I do not plan to strip the old linoleum off the bus floor, nor remove the seat tracks; the "Pergo" floating types are designed to go on top of whatever is presently there (provided the surface is reasonably even/smooth 1/16" to 1/8" imperfections +/-) (they put these floaters right over rugs, linoleum, cement, old flooring, etc) The companies that make the floating (interlocking) floors, make it in the standard hardwood look and in a ceramic tile look. They are both realistic looking enough to satisfy a critical eye. But I haven't begun to work on "Da Bus" and most others are giving you their personal experience regarding what they've used and why. I only renovated a "stick + staple" unit and there may be differences in underlayment construction in a bus (although I do not presently see any) that might give reason to do the job in a manner different than one would in a conventional RV. Ain't it fun, Adam? | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
hee hee Addendum #3, Hatches... I've got three hatches in my oak floor. The biggest being a 1' wide by 5' long one right over my engine (mid engine Crown). I mounted my four T-105's under it (what a wonderful "wasted space" to be used for house batteries!) I made it by starting with a plate of 1/4" aluminum. I simply screwed Hanson structural screws thru it up into the oak to hold everything together, and used a 1/16" layer of "dynamat" sound absorbing material inbetween. I covered the battery side of the aluminum sheet with a layer of .060" phenolic insulating material to keep the battery posts from shorting to the aluminum... It's right in the middle of the kitchen and it's sealed by weatherstripping foam, and doesn't even require bolting down. It just drops down in it's hole and stays quite happily on it's own. No squeeks, instant and super easy access to the batteries... | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.244.52) Rating: N/A |
Great idea! I left a 9" x 2' section in the RV bathroom floor behind the toilet like that. I cut on the tongue/grooves so it disappears when dropped into place. No glue or fasteners needed and it leaves access to wires, plumbing, etc. The "Pergo" floating floors may not be so adaptable however, since it stays down by interlocking with each other piece. They recommend using glue at edges that may not be secure enough without the use of some type of retainer. Scatter rugs work wonders for hiding things, though. |