| Author | Message | ||
| Pete RTS/Daytona (168.193.113.173)
Rating: N/A |
Hi All Can anyone tell me more about this product from www.Radiant-tecnology.com or www.coachdesign.com It's a "radiant barrier" 1/4" foam with a shinny alum foil in the center. cost about $400 for 225 square ft delivered. Dale Whipple of 'CoachDesign" claims a "calculated" R-38 valve. Is there an article about this stuff in "Bus Conversion Mag." ?? Is this possible - is this wishful thinking - fact / fiction /hype ?? Should/could it be installed between the metal roof and additional foil faced foam boards - or between the inside roof and the foam boards - alone ? I did see lots of posts about this on the BNO board - but was not sure of the conclusions ?? I'm so confused (what else is new!) - anyone out there tried / used this stuff - I need input - I need to make a decision very soon about what way I'm going to insulate my bus. Thanks Pete RTS/Daytona .____________ /_][][]/____/[]_| 1989 RTS-II T70206 6V92-TA DDEC-II V731 4.10/24.5 *--O-----------O-* Daytona FL.-Hard Beaches/Soft Women (386)672-0571 | ||
| Ken Turner (Pipesusmc) (205.188.116.136)
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http://www.radiant-technology.com/ | ||
| Pete RTS/Daytona (168.192.9.209)
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oops sorry guys - I'm one very Dyslexic retired engineer - it's ---> http://radiant-technology.com/ & http://www.coachdesign.com/pages/cfCoachStore.cfm Thanks - sorry - I have 2 small pdf files written by Dave about the product - but I don't know how to post them ?? Pete RTS/Daytona | ||
| Pete RTS/Daytona (168.192.9.209)
Rating: N/A |
Hi all File attach test  hope this works | ||
| Pete RTS/Daytona (168.192.9.209)
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sorry - files were over the 20 kb limit sorry - email me if anyone wants a copy of the 2 PDF files Pete | ||
| Stan (68.150.152.113) Rating: N/A |
Pete: I don't know how you can lose. R-38 is about four times the insulation value that anyone puts into a bus conversion. Think of all the work and money you save on insulation, plus all the space you gain. Just imagine you can build top cabinets right out to the skin in the former window openings. No need to raise a roof when no insulation has to be added. I plan on covering the entire inside and outside of my house with this material or one of the ceramic paints. With two adults in the house generating heat I should be able to sell energy to the power company in the winter time and have no need for A/C in the summer. I am just waiting for a grant, to pay for it, from the Sierra Club. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
R38 with only a quarter inch thick product does sound a little bit too good to be true. In the building industry sometimes insulation manufactures include the physical structure... ...of a building in the advertised "R" value of a product. Sometimes this includes the roofing... ...shingles and interior ceiling in the total stated insulative value. Wonder if this could... ....be the case here. We are researching a product called "E-Z White", which sounds like... ...the stuff you mentioned. This stuff is five-sixteenths inch thick and has an advertised... ..."R" valude of around 7 or 8. We were planning on using perhaps 2 layers. Good luck. | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.171) Rating: N/A |
I studied a similar material about 6 months ago. The factor that makes it work is the dead air space between the reflection film and the outside wall. You will notice they refer to this as material for intense radiant heat. It refers little to insulation in the normal sense, as a matter of fact they mention applying with a layer of foam insulation. That said, I am still skeptacle of the material I studied but am installing it with a layer of foam insulation in my walls. Iwill do the same in the ceiling but if space limits my installation, I will apply the film with out the foam in the ceiling. Not first choice but an option. When I posted my material, I was told that they did not think it could uphold the R19 that was claimed for a 1/4" thick material. If that is so, then R34 would be less of a true measurement. As I say, it is an option and is doable. good luck. "Imagine" cd | ||
| Pete RTS/Daytona (168.192.8.189)
Rating: N/A |
Cory Do you have any info (URL) for your material ?? Do you plan to put your 1/4 material between the metal roof and the foam insulation (double faced?) or put the foan against the roof and then glue the 1/4 material to the foam ?? Thanks Pete | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.141) Rating: N/A |
Pete I have to find the URL. I seem to have misplaced it but I will look on the insulation, might be there. for the ceiling I have done the following. 1. I have my roof coated with KOOLSEAL. The reflective opportunity from this product keeps the roof metal cool to touch under the roofmetal inside the coach. 2. I have little room for insulation in the ceiling, not a big loss, the RTS had that "waffer" insulation originally. ...I know I will place the 1/4" foil (actually foil on both sides of a 1/4" poly insulation) above the ceiling material, this is planned. ...If I have room, I will place the foam insulation on the ceiling material and then glue the 1/4" insulation on top of the foam, facing the required dead air space toward the roof metal. The 1/4" material must be toward the roof metal with a dead air space, mine requires 3/4" dead air space minimum. Yours must be similar. The Foil type insulation is aimed to reflect the RADIANT heat. Another thing it will do if you seal it is stop any air flow which can greatly kill any insulation value. Kinda like if you are in a house with leaky windows in the Winter. Notice the house is easy to keep warm with little or no wind but it is cold if the wind is blowing outside. I want to put the Foam in the wall with the 1/4 foil glued on the foam facing the outside wall, allowing the dead air space again. The manufacturer told me the foam would not be needed but they use this down in Arizona and only expericence Radiant heat. I decided to place both in the walls and will try to place both in the ceiling. If not, the 1/4" foil faced poly will go in the ceiling. Do not forget about the dead air space on the side of the 1/4" insul facine the outside. The people I spoke with said the dead air space is what makes it work. If you were to glue it on the wall board or onto the outside metal, the R value drops to like 2 or 3R. "Imagine" cd | ||
| Pete RTS/Daytona (168.192.8.189)
Rating: N/A |
Cory is this the URL for your stuff --> http://highr.net/product.htm Pete RTS/Daytona | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.211.100)
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Any INDEPENDANT lab tests results to back up the claims of this 1/4" revolution or were all tests conducted in some guys garage by 3 friends with a case of Bud. The vinyl siding industry has pulled this line for years with their revolutionary "backed with foam insulation board": .55 R factor, 1/4"! Sounds a little like the solar controller that will give you 100 watts effective from a 75 watt solar panel. | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.244.229) Rating: N/A |
So, what'smatter with space blankets duct-taped to the ceiling? Hey.. The wife put those reflective shields in the windows of the Winnebago and managed to actually make it cooler than without it. If it were insulation, we'd have an "R" factor and forty times the thickness. Since it's just thin aluminum foil, it doesn't have an "R" factor, but does essentially the same thing. Marketing that foil claiming it has an "equivalent R factor" to insulation for keeping out the heat, isn't all that crazy. If both high "R" insulation and "no-R" tinfoil have the same effect, why complain? The question should be regarding keeping in the heat. That's where "R" factor makes an important difference. And using tinfoil or paint instead of good insulation, just ain't gonna hack it in the winter. | ||
| Jerry Campbell (67.140.249.10)
Rating: N/A |
I put this in my 102A3. I installed along with 1- 1/2" insulation with foil on both sides and 2 layers of 3/4 green foam. I have not done the nose of bus But i did install the radiant barrier. It has been about 2mos. and now the backing foam has come off and will not go back on the foil is to hot for the glue. so I don't know if I am real happy with this. | ||
| David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (67.216.147.23)
Rating: N/A |
Not used in the bus BUT... We decided to use our old Apache Solid State Pop-up as a test subject. This is a hard sided/no canvas pop-up. The roof and upper sidewalls are white ABS and have no insulation. Well, I take that back... the "insulation" in the main roof and roof section over the beds was a 1/4 inch thick piece of styrofoam sandwiched between the exterior and interior ABS. Needless to say the ceilings would get so hot during the summer that you couldn't keep your hand on the roof and the steel roof supports would raise a blister. Last summer we removed the exterior roof in order to install flourescent lights and install a better roof vent. While the roof cover was off, we tossed the styrofoam and laid out some of the Reflectix brand bubble insulation. It made a huge difference in the interior of the pop-up. We could touch the ceiling now and keep our hand laying there even in full sun with temps of 98F. We were so immprressed that I removed the bed roofs and slid Reflectix between the ABS panels. Made it much more comfortable to sleep in. This past spring, I covered the main sidewalls with the Reflectix and then used Contact cement to glue vinyl over the shiny insulation. It really helps. It drops the temps inside about 10-15 degrees (we have no ac in the pop-up). This is without any airspace. Also make it easier to heat (turned cool on us for a spring camping trip) and the best thing is that pop-up no longer "sweats" (a problem that Apaches are known for), not even on the bed walls that are still un-insulated. And the insulated roof/larger vent didn't stop it from sweating. From that experience, we have decided to use a radient barrier such as Reflectix or Low-E (seems to be better than Reflectix...Low-E sent us a sample...pricier but it seems much better). We will use the barrier next to the metal and use foam insulation as well. While I thought it worked well on it's own for the pop-up it would need help in the thin walls of the bus as we can't utilize a dead air space. We think we can cut the amount of foam insulation in half (use 1 thinner layer rather than 2) OR use the amount of foam insulation we originally planned on using in addition to the Radient barrier. This would allow us to boost the insulation value and cut the radient heat gain at the same time. We live in the Southeast and have alot of heat gain in the summer. We still have a few experiments to do. I want to build a box to test out different combinations of Reflextix & foam thicknesses. I have an indoor/outdoor thermometer that I use for the fridge in the pop-up. I can use it to keep track of the heat gain. But first, I have to build drawers for the pop-up (still remodeling it). Then I can do the box thing. I've got to get the pop-up finished insulated (and add a water heater) as we have a November Rally with an IRV2 camping group near Beaufort SC. It so hot out! BTW, I used 3M VHB (Very High Bond) double sided tape from www.outwater.com to attach the Reflectix to the ABS...nothing likes to stick to ABS. It worked pretty well for that. It's also holding some of the paneling on the sidewalls (since last summer)... like I said, the old pop-up is my test subject. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.165.47)
Rating: N/A |
How does one 'enforce' the 1/4" air gap? I haven't pulled down my ceiling yet so this might be obvious but am concerned that the insulation would push the barrier up to the roof. I have been using a product called 'coroplast' for some interim interior work, mostly prototyping, which is a 1/4" corrugated plastic, like yard signs are made of. It is like cardboard only plastic. In the middle it's all air. Am wondering if that could go next to the roof, then the barrier, then the insulation... ...of course, it might melt!  Thoughts? | ||
| CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.199) Rating: N/A |
Yes Pete, thats the URL, thanks I had experimented with a different brand once uppon a time. They had single side metalic, double sided, then double thickness, double sided and tripple thickness double sided. ...I used a heat lamp and let it hit one side of the single sided single thickness sheet, result was the opposite side would get quite warm. ...Then I heated the double sided, single thickness, again, it would get quite warm. ...When I heated the double sided, double thick sample, the opposing side was almost as cool as ambiant temp. ...The double sided, tripple thick didn't even register the heat. UNFORTUNATELY, when it came time to buy, this company was gone, non existant. Seems some kind of trouble with using in airplanes as non fire supporting, but in the environment, it would become self sustaining.??? I ended up using this other product, but funny thing, I asked if it would make a difference if I doubled the 1/4" to make 1/2" thickness and they said no, just a waste of a layer of insulation. Figuring they are depending on the reflectivity only of their product, that is when I decided to add the foam insulation also. As to enforcing the 3/4" dead air space, they rely on the material being glued or stapled on a surface away from the outside wall. My understanding is nothing can invade the air space or it will cost in R value, however large or small that figure might be. As I said, no air space, lose 90-95% of predicted R value for the 1/4" material. If you have foam Insul backing the 1/4 stuff, its R value is not affected by lack of dead air space, only added to, HOWEVER, if you have a "air" leaky bus, your R value will plumet as the heat rides the waves of air moving through your coach walls. For me this was an option and after I talked to one of the bus manufacturers who uses both a 1/4" brand simialr to mine and foam insulation, I had decided to go that route. I am going by figures, estimates and the word of a manufacturer of what will work. I will not achieve the full benefit due to lack of space in the ceiling, amount of windows and small insulated wall space, but for my travels, it is what can be done on my design. Good luck folks "Imagine" cd | ||
| Adame (129.82.228.252) Rating: N/A |
Does this stuff still work if the shiny surface becomes dusty? Does a layer of dust decrease its performance? just wondering. |