| Author | Message | ||
| Robert V (70.16.50.125)
Rating: |
Back in early July you all gave me some tips on the type of bus to use for a County-Wide Mobile Emergency Command Center. Now that I have the bus, I will look to you again for some tips. I took delivery of a 1986 Gillig Phantom, 30 footer in superb condition. I would have rather acquired a coach but height/size was an issue. Having those belly compartments would have been a big plus. The bus will be sectored off about 20ft back with the front being command area and the back being equipment storage and communications/electronics backbone area. Now I have a few questions: 1. You all did a fine job at talking me out of PTO operated generator because it required leaving the bus running. After I receievd the bus I found that there would be no room for a PTO unit anyways, and the bus would be a bit to loud to leave running for a long period (top exhaust). Any clue where a generator could be mounted, I was hoping to put in a diesel unit, but might have to settle for a smaller gas or lp RV type unit. Has anyone ever seen one mounted on the roof, or building a sound insulated compartment inside the bus with access from the outside? 2. Roof Ladders, without mounting a ladder on the side of the bus, is there a way to mount on the back with the engine compartment door (lifts up). 3. Inverters - had decided on a Xantrex Prosine 3000 watt, but then saw the Outback 3500 Pure Sine Wave which seems like an incredible unit for about $500.00 less. Anyone have knowledge of the Outback Inverter units? That should do it for now.... Thanks Robert V. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell) (66.81.51.119)
Rating: N/A |
If the Phantom has the rear up-top condensor and evaporator for the bus A/C and you are removing it as so many do, there is your genset space. Don't know a thing about the Outback, but the Prosine is a good unit. IMHO the Trace SW or PS series are the best and have the most features, the SW being the superior unit of the 2. PS is a less feature packed unit that primarily eliminates grid sharing capabilities of the SW. Other than that, they are the same unit for a few hundred less than an SW. They make split ladder systems. 1 section mounts above the engine compartment door to rear cap other section mounts to door. | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A |
Robert You hit a peice of history that I was involved in - the NJT Command Bus. I was the Program Manager for that one. A couple of things we learned: 1) Make sure that heat and AC are run from a generator - not the engine. The coach AC is handy, but not essential. Heat from an idling diesel is not enough to get the job done. 2) Use a gen set compatible with the on-board fuel supply which would be diesel. A 10K should do it. Don't scrimp here. You will need it later. 3) If going for an invertor, go with the sw4024 OR sw4012 DEPENDING ON WHAT THE COACH BATTERIES ARE. This will allow some sharing and backup for starting/charging batteries. You will also get a significant backup power supply out of this (could use the coach engine tro supply AC for a periiod in the event the gen set fails. 4) Develop an exercize plan and execute it! These coaches die because of lack of use - not over use. 5) Use high-spec radio equipment. You wil get interference - but you can minimize it with good quality radios and low power output levels. (You don't need a 100 watt radio to talk 1 mile.) 6) If you need to cut corners to meet budget - do it where you can recover the most of the initial expendature or at least minimize the lost money. Gen set, Invertor and radios are the most significant items to buy the right stuff first. 7) You can get away with the trransit coach (we did) and try storing things under seats in the front area and keeping the back a limited access area for radio ops. This is a short story where a long story could be written. Feel free to ask questions. We built the NJT COmmand Bus in 6 weeks at Newark Shops without much in the way of written plans by a talented group of workers. I was lucky - most coaches take much longer to complete. Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| Robert V (12.152.140.209)
Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the input so far, I have decided to take out the AC condenser and compressor and use the space for a generator. I will install a roof AC unit. Any comments on the AC/Heat Pump Units? | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin) (65.92.126.154)
Rating: N/A |
Hi Robert, Dave Galey's Bus Converter's Bible is published, and you can read it for free online, at this site, all year long. Coincidentally, until the end of August, Section 4 is the current section that appears and deals with HVAC. This section deals specifically with air conditioners and heat pumps. Regarding the genset, our fire dept cut a hole in the side of the bus to mount a sliding shelf, boxed in the rest with sheet steel, put a 7.5 portable gas genset into in and created shelving on the inside over the genset box - good place for the IC to stand during ops. Having the generator on a sliding shelf takes care of exhaust and heat concerns because it is now "outside". We direct wired a rooftop Coleman AC with heat strips into the genset. In your Gillig, research the structural members of both the bottom and side if contemplating cutting into it and adding substantial weight. Regards, Ian Giffin www.busnut.com | ||
| TWO DOGS (63.156.216.1) Rating: N/A |
and forget about 'heat pumps'... | ||
| DrivingMissLazy (66.168.175.51) Rating: N/A |
Wouldn't that be very noisy? Seems like a portable genset is also not really designed for 24/7 operation, which should be a consideration. Richard | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin) (65.92.126.154)
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I agree with you, Two Dogs, heat pumps are, if nothing else, only good mold growing machines. DML, I apologize. I sorta mis-stated "portable". A 7.5 (and it may, in fact, be a 6.5 - oops, Alzheimers again) takes four people to pick it up, as it weights in at about 250 lbs. and the mounting on the bus is permanent. Honda provides a 2- or 4-wheel kit to make it portable. Honda's noise spec is 75db at rated load (and we don't disagree with that number). That's about 10db below the need for hearing protection, according to our fire dept standard, which uses the Washington Industrial Safety & Health Act (WISHA) as it's reference point on audiometric testing. Sliding it "outside" while it runs, also keeps the bus fairly quiet. Regards, Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| TWO DOGS (4.227.117.242) Rating: N/A |
I thought you were on vacation I@N... | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin) (65.92.126.154)
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I am! Ahhhhhhh... and those are hot tub bubbles, not self manufactured :-) Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Years ago the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) had pamphlets on suggested minimum specifications on various types of fire apparatus. Perhaps they still do and can be specific as to what exact stuff will be needed for a major incident mobile fire command post. As to any custom additions, strongly consider a toilet with a large holding tank, a type of shower if possible with hot water... ...a couple of fold down bunks and some sort of way of producing small hot meals, along with a refrigerator/freezer capable of making ice. These facilities can be made quite small for occasional use only, but can make a big difference in the apparatus being able to... ...conduct its function properly. Also would double the determined fuel capacity with a single fuel use only. Lots of generator use possible. On a added note, could question the use of actual attached area tower lighting on your proposed commmand post vehicle. Such is best left... ...to separate, portable units that are lighter and more mobile/cheaper/adaptable. Try to keep things simple with an idea of future expandability. Good luck. | ||
| Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
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Regarding heat - I don't know what area you are located in, but the electric heat strips on a coleman AC unit will get you by if the temp is above freezing - until the coach fills up with people. Make sure you have at least 2 if not 3 AC units in the coach. When you pack in a lot of people (and that tends to happen at a scene) you will need the AC to survive. One in the radio room (rear) and two up front. FWIW Doug St Louis MC9 | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.210.168)
Rating: N/A |
Hello Robert. I do the Mobile Command Centre gig up here in Toronto, same as Doug D. Here's a link to a design document for these things that the Canadian Government put together. I knew the author, and what a great fellow he was: http://www.ocipep.gc.ca/research/resactivites/index_e.asp Scroll down a little to this document: 1991:D011A The Development of Design Guidlines for Mobile Command Posts Feel free to e-mail me! A few thoughts: 1) it will be rare if any of the users of your MCC will approach your interest level, and they will have little care for weirdness or functional limitations. Make it simple and as "normal" to use as folks are used to at home, or in the office. 2) everyone will leave the doors and windows open, regardless of the weather. Don't fight it, just design in lots more heating and cooling. You can always turn it down, you can't turn up what you don't have... Also handy to run one roof air on the heat strip, and another on the AC when it is one of those cooler damp times 3) Very carefully consider the consequences of generator failure. Your MCC is a giant piece of expensive crap in the eyes of the bureaucratic bean counters, especially if it doesn't work when you need it. Consider either a quick local source of back-up at oh'dark thirty, or design in two generators (we put in two) This is also where the big Trace inverter/charger can save your behind, at least you can make 4000 watts of 120 volts by running the bus engine on high idle. Get a high idle, if it doesn't already... 4) plan for some way for the MCC to ventilate itself while parked in storage, to prevent the musty smells from starting, again your users will focus on the stink, not your great design. 5) add a Webasto coolant furnace if you are anywhere the temps go below freezing. Will allow use of the bus heaters while idling and keep the engine temp up, if you get forced into it due to other failures. 6) on your circuit breaker panel, label everything, and label every outlet and appliance. Add the draw of the circuit to the panel, so you can quickly identify which loads to shed if you are under one of the afore mentioned failure conditions. 7) did I mention expect everything to fail when you need it to work, and plan for a back-up strategy to compensate? 8) get all your exhausts up to the roof somehow. The wind always seems to blow exhaust towards your door or HVAC intakes.... 9) never heard anyone complain that the washroom holding tank was too large... our police department manage to fill some of theirs in a few hours. Add a fan to the tank vent so it sucks air down the hole and just put in a coach style outhouse and lots of sweet smelling chemical. No need for flush water. We leave our holding tanks dry in storage, so the unit doesn't pick up any smells and dump in a couple of gallons of RV antifreeze in winter and water in summer to go operational. 10) a couple of outside electric plugs come in handy, but be very careful that others don't plug in and upset your generator loads. Best to leave those circuits off in the panel, unless using them. happy coaching! buswarrior |
