| Author |
Message |
Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg) (66.58.223.108)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 7:17 am: | |
Not that i'm totally giving up..I'm learnig about it as much as I can but I fear I'll be needing an electricians help designing and installing my system in my MC5C...Does anyone have any Idea of what this would cost and how long it would take. I would buy all the equipment and help install if allowed as well..I simply do not have the time to ingest and learn the necessary skills to do it all myself. So if anyone has any experience with this please feel free to chime in..Thanks. |
TWO DOGS (63.185.73.195)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 8:01 am: | |
kind of a 'who you know' thing...if you know somebody that understands elec. & wireing installing a breaker box & running wires& plug ins for 110 would be about 300.00 for a simple instalation....the more bells & whistles you decide to add=more $$$ |
FAST FRED (4.245.230.42)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 8:56 am: | |
The bigest question would have to be made first , what style wiring would you prefer?
If house (and RV code ok) romex will work any house electrician with a bit of off grid experience (has installed DC stuff like inverters) should work just fine.
ONLY If you prefer the marine option (may be far superior in terms of safty Esp with a Big high amp DC inverter & charging system) which may or may not be "legal " in your state , the choice would be a yard electrician used to working on about 50 ft and larger sized boats.
Marine works for me , but not for everyone,
FAST FRED |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 9:51 am: | |
Just a note of caution to avoid surprise.
Few converters are "crazy" to the point of having the full system decided and layed out at the point they need to start on the electrical system.
I'd recommend that you be sure you have made up your mind and are willing to stick to your choices on components and placement(or subject yourself to the realm of "change order" type expense) at the time you engage the electrician.
Frankly, if you made these plans you could do most of the topside work - except for the distribution systems below, as the choice and wire sizes etc. aren't that bad.
This might keep you going until you can visit a bus rally or convention where you could investigate various examples of the basement distribution system and maybe plagarize, so to speak.
Don't sell yourself short in the brains or press of business routine. While technical or involved it ain't rocket science - just detail. Plus, You lose the advantage of intimate knowledge of the coach and the ability to maintain it. All human efforts must anticipate failure modes. Electrical would put you at the greatest disadvantage both time and money-wise if you were out on the road.
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget |
John that newguy (199.232.240.137)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 10:08 am: | |
Hey Sean...
Aside from all the technical aspects.... You haven't mentioned if
you have an empty shell, a partial conversion, or a complete bus.
(Or if you're a former RVr)
Assuming you have an empty shell, you should begin by laying out
your floor plan, with cabinets and all structural designs decided.
Without that, no electrician in the world will be able to route
wires to where they would be most practical. You should have made a
decision where you want your external connections to be and laid out
a reasonable plan for that location also. (12v, 110v, TV and phone)
Nothing is impossible in life, but some routes we take to get to the
place in life we want to be, can be more difficult than others.
If the job of a converting a bare bus is beginning to look like it's
more than you wanted to tackle, you may be much better off bailing
out now and buying a partial conversion instead, or even a commercially
made motorhome that's livable from the day you buy it.
There's no shame in doing what's best for -you-. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 11:41 am: | |
sean--Where are you located?
Gary |
Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg) (66.58.223.108)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 2:24 pm: | |
Hi Guys..I'm in the Anchorage AK area for now but plan on getting down to the Nashville TN area by spring the lates...
I'm not selling myself short as far as brains and knowledge etc but I truely know nothing about houshold/RV/Marine Electrical. It's not something I want to spend a couple months learning about then trying to figure out how to design and install it all...I would rather just be a helper to someone who knows what the hell they are doing, so I can move on. Plumbing is another area I have little interest in but I think I can figure that one out a lot easier and do most of it myself...
I have a basic floorplan in mind...As for the bus, I have not stripped it out yet as I'm waiting to get the Air system fixed so I can drive it out of the yard where I bought it from. It's apparently a Truttle valve...the seats all come out with a wrench and sweat and I plan to strip it all out, then take all the walls and ceiling covering off. Then I'll strip out the old insulation, do any rust repair, resinsulate and plywood the walls and ceiling....As for the floor, I plan to la a new floor over the old one with some thin spacer wood nailed down, Flat insulation or foam in between and a new plywood floor....
I have heard and read it recommended to use regular #12 extension cord for all the wiring in the bus. Anyone else do that?
Also, Did anyone use particle board instead of Plywood for the walls and ceiling? The price of Plywood up here would give you a heart attack and I plan to cover my walls and ceiling with cedar, oak or Pine anyway...
So no one has a price on the electrical work, eh? I'm going to continue to learn about it as much as I can. |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.156)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 3:29 pm: | |
Don't sell yourself short, you know more that you think.
think of your electrical like a big tree. The power comes in the Large cable (root of tree) in various currents, 50Amp, 30Amp or like 2 DOGS, 15Amp (LOLOLOLOLOLLLLOLL, just kidding 2D).
You will fuse/cb size for you incoming current.
The fuse/cb feeds the bus(s) (TRUNK of tree) in the cb box, these fuse/cb's feed circuits(branches of tree). Each circuit will be protected with a fuse/cb rated for the cable size. (West Marine has a chart on their ECatalog that can help you with wire sizes vs Amp carrying capacity and you would fuse/cb as required.
If down the line you go to a smaller wire, fuse as needed(like they do when you connect a radio or cb, there is usually a fuse on the power cord.
DC is very similar to this train of thought.
route your cables, (mine follow a trough under the window sill) and branch out as needed.
This site might help you, it shows plumbing as well as electrical.
http://www.winnebagoind.com/html/lifestyle/wit/wit.html
Go to RESOURCES, move the pointer to SERVICE, go down and click on ELEC DRAWINGS
Pick a model and look at the drawings, they are in PDF so you can save what you need.
Good luck, if you have questions or get stuck, put on here. One of us will give you an answer.
DON'T GO CHEAP!!! Don't use extension cord wire(meant to be laid on the floor for use then rolled up and put away, not hidden in a wall).
Choose your material well or ask us(HMMMMMMM).
It really is not as big a deal, just time consuming.
There is a book??? that references a code type information. I'm sure someone will quote you from it if you go in the wrong direction.
Good luck
"Thinking that Cheap materials end up a crappy job"
cd |
cjm (63.234.5.219)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 4:03 pm: | |
If you don't like the thought of using extension cords, aka SO or SJ cord with plug and receptacle ends molded on it, just strip off the insulation and put it in conduit. This is the cheapest way I've found to buy stranded copper wire. John |
bruce king (67.170.101.3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 4:29 pm: | |
Pacific industrial supply in seattle has any length of rubber coated stranded wire, 2, 3 or 4 conductor, in 10 or 12 gauge, for $.25/foot. I bought 400' of it and used most of it in my conversion. To use it
I had to buy a good set of crimping and cutting tools though. Stripping stranded is a bit harder than stripping solid, and each outlet takes roughly 20 minutes to finish wire, vs maybe 5 for a standard outlet using solid.
I used a circular saw and opened up the old ac distribution vent in the center aisle, and used that for my basic cable runs, running to the side of the bus in the existing cold air supply vents.
In terms of shore power, I didn't want to spend the time at the time of figuring out an auto switch, so I put in a 50 amp outlet and unplug the generator when I want to plug in the shore power.
Bruce |
TWO DOGS (65.179.208.211)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 7:17 pm: | |
TWO DOGS have 50 amp corny dame |
don (Bottomacher) (66.216.217.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 9:20 pm: | |
Cory Dane
I've tried that website a dozen times or more and I have yet to find the word "service". Do you know a secret, or is my dyslexia gaining on me?
Don |
CoryDane RTSII (66.155.188.75)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 1:01 am: | |
Don
No dyslexia, it is a different type of site. I had trouble with it myself.
click the address
now put the pointer on RESOURCES and click
dont move the pointer until the page changes.
now move the pointer down a little and to the left, stay in the header area or the page changes.
to the left you will find SERVICE, Click service
The library, as I call it, will be down the page.
I don't know why they made the page this way, you have to know how to get what you want.
HEY 2DAWGS, If you have 50 ants, do they pull the bus too? BRAAAHAAHAHAHAHahahahaAHHAhahahaaaaa
Let me know if you still can't get in
"Thinking help in this hobby from fellow conversionists IS job 1"
cd |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior) (64.229.211.90)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 7:57 pm: | |
Hello Sean.
On the particle board:
DON'T USE IT!
The inside of our buses is subject to huge swings of temperature and humidity.
The particle board will soak up the moisture and swell. Seen it too often.
Marine grade plywood is what you will really want, after lesser materials have ruined your great decorating down the road.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Niles (4.4.115.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 8:06 pm: | |
Ditto Buswarrior's thoughts Sean - Unless your looking for that ribbon effect in your decor you need to use natural wood products , preferably treated , and no OSB board either - Niles |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.116.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 8:17 pm: | |
ButButBut....
I thought OSB was the greatest thing since drywall. |
Niles (4.4.115.18)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 8:49 pm: | |
Gary - sorry but your wrong on both counts (I know you were kidding ????) - drywall has been re-engineered into paperless fiberglass backed multi purpose sheathing/wallboard (due to the prevalance of mold) and is something you may want to try - kinda what hardi-board did to masonite - and I can drive down the street in any humid climate zone and point out the roofs sheathed with OSB - Niles |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.116.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 9:31 pm: | |
Yeah.
I travel all over the country, have addresses in three states simultaneously, but nowhere have I seen the McMansion phenomenon as prevalent as where we now live in the outer suburbs of
detroit. Next door to me, there is about 30 acres that they are going to buld eleven of these atrocities, all OSB, Brick Veneer, bla, bla, bla... they will go for about $750K each.
My Realtor has already let me know that when I move out of the place I live they are going to bulldoze it to build one of these horrid things. this is not a shack, but a 1800 SqFt house 150 years old. nothing wrong with it, really, they can just get more for one of the architectural travesties.
And everyone thinks I'm Crazy. I guess that's OK.
Gary |
bill 340 (166.157.126.32)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 9:32 pm: | |
try this site. Good luck Bill 340
http://www.phrannie.org/phredex.html |
ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.95.157)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:57 pm: | |
Gary - I'm totally with you on the McMansions. I've been inside a few of those and everything about them looks fake and cheap. Tells a lot about the owners. $750K for bragging rights to their yuppie friends who don't know any better than they do about quality that really matters.
Sean - there's a Skoolie converter in AK whose site I ping into every now and then who echoes the extreme cost of materials in Alaska for a bus converter. To the point that he decided to stop the conversion and move to the mainland before continuing. Not to discourage you, but you're not alone in dealing with the heart attack factor. |
Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg) (66.58.223.108)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 12:13 am: | |
Thanks Chuck..I'm heading to Nashville by Spring and only want to get the exterior done and interior stripped, re-walled and re-floored before I leave because of costs and materials.. |
John that newguy (206.15.137.141)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 9:41 pm: | |
Uhh... so hey... Wazzamatta wid dat 4x8 fiberglass sheets they have at
Home Depot for under $30 per? Nice trim between and you have a
total white, washable interior that won't stain, rust, or get moldy or damp.
You can paint it using any paint suitable for Fiberglas. |
Robert Wood (Bobwoodsocal) (4.46.108.207)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 4:50 pm: | |
Nothing wrong with FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) panels, great stuff. I will do my next 3 bathrooms with it. all the best, Bob |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 6:23 pm: | |
So John, do you mean the melamine laminated masonite? I haven't seen 'glass panels in Home Despot.
It is the same stuff that Bluebird uses for ceilings.
I think it's a bit....Sterile.
I'm planning to use longitudanal 4X8 sheets for the ceiling though, but the tongue and groove looking stuff.
Gary |
Jim Ashworth (Jimnh) (172.133.150.139)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 7:26 pm: | |
My bus is my winter home, whether in FL or TX or AZ. Extensive use of the FRP would make me think I'm living in a walk in freezer at a restaurant. That is its most common use, along with the chef's kitchen walls. Home should have some of that "warm fuzzy" feeling, not freezer sterile. I do however use it and love it for shower ceilings. Can't beat it there- bends to the roof curve and doesn't rot, mold, etc.
Jim |
John that newguy (209.206.17.180)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 9:09 pm: | |
No Gar.. It's total Fiberglass, in the color white. Has a sort of
"bumpy" texture to it, almost like a popcorn effect, but decent.
Being totally bendable, glueable, cutable and any other words we
can coin, it's easy to work with. But it -is- heavy, so if it's used
on the ceiling, you may want to have the bro-in-law sit under it
until you're sure it's going to stay up.
That melmanoushied stuff you mentioned is generally used for
shelves, cabinets and stuff and is too heavy to use for much else. |
John that newguy (209.206.17.34)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 9:58 pm: | |
Jim.. I didn't realize you had that much wall space!
We all have our personal preferences, and nothing is either right,
or wrong, it's all a matter of taste. For some of us, making it look
like a regular house, is what's best. For others of us, making it
easy to maintain is what's best...... And others of us wouldn't
mind something between; that's about where I am.
After living in the damned things for awhile.... We figure that
anything that's easy to keep clean and smell-free, is what's best
to use. No-one in their right mind -wants- to do housework,
especially while out on a trip. And man, road dust can build up
quick, right along with beach sand, bacon smell and every other
gaseous, vaporized, nebulized, sprayed or cooked smelly thing
one can imagine. A floor that's easy to sweep out; walls and
ceilings that are easy to wipe off, are more of a blessing than
all those "neat warm and fuzzy" comforts we can enjoy at our
"real" home.
In our Georgie-Boy, I used commercial grade vinyl wallcovering
(wallpaper at almost $60 per single roll - it would have been worth
twice that to us). I applied it over the RV paper wallboard to give
us a more "homey" feeling. It was an off-white with subdued pearl
color decorations. With our favorite paintings hanging, it looked
nice against the solid oak trim. Totally washable and scrubbable,
it served its needs fairly well.
But for that rig, to do it all with FRP would have meant window and
trim removal... much too much work for what the unit was worth; that
was our reason for going with wallcovering.
For the bus, I don't plan on much. I hope to seal out just four windows
and change the balance to the exact replacements from Peninsula.
For us, there won't be too much wallspace to worry about. And since
we're out to see the country, rather than walls... I think it'd be just fine.
But if I did want to close up a few more windows, I think I'd use the
FRP and hang some paintings and mirrors, the way one would do it
in a normal home. It'd add that "warm fuzzy feeling" and still keep the
"easy to clean" part.
But ya'know, Jim...... With all those that we've visited through the
years, it's wasn't the decorations that ever gave us warm and fuzzy
feelings..... It was the owners and occupants friendly, good natured
attitudes that did that.
If I can work that up, I may forget about the paintings and mirrors..
Doin' it "our way".... |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess) (65.130.18.122)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 2:17 am: | |
Before I would use fiberglass for panels in bathrooms or ceilings, I would consider ABS panels, available in 4X8 sheets and can be cut to specs by the supplier. ABS is what they put on the surface coat of better fiberglass shower or tub enclosures because it is much tougher than gelcoat. It comes in white, black and soome colors and is usually smooth on one side and pebbly finish on the other. You can use either side as the finish side. Even thick sheets bend with a heat gun. If you are satisfied with a plastic/fiberglass look, ABS can give you 1/16" to 1/8" or more of the same material all the way through, so that damage can be polished out. It is tougher all the way through than fiberglass surface. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.116.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 12:18 pm: | |
Man--
I still don't know what material you guys are talking about.
What I am talking about, Melamine laminated Masonite, is 1/4" material, not the particleboard, nor the MDF stuff that shelves are made of.
The "Bumpy Stuff" I believe you are talking aboout is actually the ABS product that Stephen F. mentioned.
I have spent a considerable amount of time searching for sheet FRP for a deckhouse project on one of my boats. What I found is called "Pultruded Fiberglass", and is truly Gnarly stuff. Although inexpensive for the project I have, it's WAY too expensive to be in Home Depot.
Gary |
Stan (68.150.152.113)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 3:08 pm: | |
Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic (FRP) also called box car liner is available from the shops that repair reefer trailers (Fruehauf, Utility, etc.). They get it in long rolls in widths of two feet to eight feet in a couple of thicknesses. It has one side with a pebble surface and one side smooth. |
TWO DOGS (65.179.200.169)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 9:00 pm: | |
the bumpy stuff at Home depo...is plastic...no fiberglass in it...good stuff for ceilings...no structural strength tho...many uses...nice looking,cleans easy... |
John that newguy (209.206.17.59)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:07 pm: | |
Man... this is a tough audience!
Hey Sean... run over to Home Depot (Lowes didn't carry it the last
time I was there), and go over to where they have the wallboard,
plywood and paneling. Look for the 4x8 "plastic" sheets and see what
you think (it's FRP - Fiberglass). Two Dawgs is correct, it will add
little, if any, structural strength. Both Stephen and Gary's suggestions
sound good too.
My personal opinion is that anything would be better than Luan, or
particle board (of any thickness). |
madbrit (67.136.104.207)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:21 pm: | |
I have a feeling that the "bumpy" stuff from HD will end up all over the ceiling of mine, adhesived to the ply with oak strips along the joints.
Nice and easy to clean and not a bad price either, can be drilled and cut easily too. In fact they will cut it for you if you have the measurements to hand when you buy it. They sliced up a bunch of my Celotex insulation on their machine to fit the 16" centers.
Peter. |
Ace (172.137.205.103)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 11:05 pm: | |
Let me chime in since I recently came out of hiding from Francis. The bumpy stuff at HD IS or does have part fibreglass in it. It isn't all that heavy and all you need to do for ceiling application is glue it to your sub ceiling using liquid nail. It only takes a minute to grab and it WON'T let go. Whoever says it's plastic is obviously looking at something different. Once you cut it, you will plainly see what it is. It is white and textured, cleans very easy amd installs even easier!
Check it out for ice bright ceiolingyourself. My local HD sells it for $20.00 PER 4X8 sheet and you can even buy seperating trim pieces for the seams and corners! Done right, it makes a really bright white ceiling that is virtually maintenence free!
Ace |
Niles (4.4.117.204)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 11:15 pm: | |
Glad to see you made it through frances intact - now what do you think about ivan? - Niles |
Ace (172.137.205.103)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 11:52 pm: | |
Well I look at it like this.
Bonnie was a little jab.
Charlie was a wicked Hook.
Francis was like an uppercut
and I think Ivan will be similar to a knockout, IF it gets close!
Not going to be pretty, as if what we Floridians have been dealt already is!
Ace
Ace |