| Author |
Message |
Bill (205.188.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 8:43 am: | |
I believe the rear seal is out , alot of oil directly above the trans in the compartment,no oil on front of trans or engine.I would to know What tools and parts do I need to have, to do this project. The book does not go into much detail. Before I start I will take it for a short ride after cleaning to see exactly where. My gut feeling is thats the problem. Bill 4104-4032 |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.215.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 9:48 am: | |
Bill, I am not that familiar with your drivetrain but if the tranny set-up is anything like most I have worked on, you might be lucky and it COULD be the output shaft bearing retainer, if it is and the gasket is still good, it could be a matter of tightening up a few bolts.
Brian |
TWO DOGS (63.185.73.17)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:05 am: | |
isn't there a breather up on top...the "wording" of the question,says the oil is on top, |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.215.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:18 am: | |
Yep, Two Dogs could have something there, the top cover could be loose too, hadn't thought of those.
Though the oil being on top doesn't mean it started there, if it reaches the yoke it could get slung every which way.
If Bill really gets the area clean and takes a test drive he ought to be able to determine the source.
As a precaution you might check to be certain you aren't over full, Bill.
Brian |
Jim-Bob (12.46.52.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:58 am: | |
Bill, I have 4104-4039. You say there's oil on the ceiling of the engine compartment, right over the transmission, but the trans & engine is clean?
Are you looking to buy this bus or have you had it for a while? If you are looking at it, maybe the engine & trans have been cleaned? The engine air plenum is at the top of the compartment. Could the oil be residual somehow? The bus originally had oil bath air cleaners. Could oil have/be coming from there? |
Bill (64.12.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 4:02 pm: | |
I have gone across the top of the trans with a wrench and found nothing. The oil is above the trans on the inside of the compartment. It is being thrown up there by either the emergency brake hub or the yoke or both. The oil is from the emergency brake hub forward with oil dripping from the compressor muffler,(Its not the compressor) The last trip I was using about 1 quart of oil every 300-400 miles. (Brian)-- would that be the bearing cap stud which could be loose? Thanks ---Bill 4104-4032 |
TWO DOGS (65.179.193.103)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 4:49 pm: | |
o.k. ...now with a better description...yep...sounds like rear oil seal...(sounds familiar)....I had the same thing a few months back...call LUKE...think the seal,& sleave is about 35.00 & about 65.00 to have it installed... |
Bill (205.188.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 5:38 pm: | |
Two Dogs-----Who installed it for you ??------------Bill 4104-4032 |
TWO DOGS (65.179.208.237)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:01 pm: | |
a mexican in Donna Texas |
John Rigbyj (24.174.238.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:26 pm: | |
I did mine when I had the tranny out, I would think it would be difficult with it in, on these delapidated 4104,s as the V tranny points at the rear end. No room.
4 hours and you can pull the tranny. But are you sure its not the gear linkage seals that the shift levers attach to they have a tendence to leak,Then the drive shaft could sling the oil around.
Are you sure you are not over filling the tranny, Just a thought.
John |
TWO DOGS (63.185.97.72)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:43 pm: | |
mine was installed in the Eagle...think it might be easier to get to...had to drop the driveshaft,pull the old seal,put in new seal,install wear sleve on the yoke & put driveshaft back on...have NO idea on a 4104 |
Ted Calvert (Chowbus) (192.132.225.130)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:45 pm: | |
Busnutz:
I had this problem several years ago shortly after I bought my 4104-4850. It was slinging oil everywhere! I found the source by thoroughly cleaning the engine room and then looking every few miles. The bolts were loose on the output shaft seal retainer--finger loose. Da Book says to remove the drive shaft, brake drum, etc. but that's a lot of work, necessary if you're replacing the seal or bearing; but I was, luckily, able to tighten the bolts with a crow's foot wrench!
Good luck.
Ted Calvert |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.215.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:48 pm: | |
The rear seal of the trans is pressed into the rear bearing retainer and there are either bolts or studs with nuts that hold it to the trans.
Sometimes those bolts work loose, if they are loose you can safely retorque those bolts but it would be best to tighten them all in stages until they are fully torqued.
If you have studs and nuts and they have worked loose, you should try to remove the studs and nuts one at a time, clean out the threads and reinstall the studs with lock-tite.
I hope that's your problem and this solves it for you.
Brian |
BrianMCI96A3 (65.160.215.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:58 pm: | |
It is actually a common problem, and while it could still be the rear seal, I certainly would try the bearing retainer first.
In fact because of the amount of oil you are seeing, I'd tend to think of the retainer first, due to the oil passage in the retainer that passes lube oil from the rear bearing back into the trans.
Brian |
TWO DOGS (63.185.97.72)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 7:19 pm: | |
yep....hardest part of fixing stuff...is finding out what needs to be fixed |
Sam Phillips (209.82.161.161)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:58 pm: | |
I had this problem with a leaking seal on the shift shaft on the transmission. Oil everywhere as it was dripping down on the brake drum and slinging all over the right side of the bus. Replaced seal and no more oil on the side of the 4104. A litle oil goes a long way when it gets in the airstream. Hope this helps |
Bill (152.163.100.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:28 am: | |
Sam -----Where there any problems,or special tools you needed? Bill 4104-4032 |
Jim-Bob (12.46.52.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 10:57 am: | |
Bill, mine was leaking from the output seal too. But more than just the seal. (there 2 lip seals in there.) The nut holding the output flange on was loose & there was a broken bearing spacer behind it. I pulled the transmission (was doing the clutch anyway). I can remove the trans in 1-1.5 hours by myself. I use a "cherrypicker" car engine hoist. You will need a smooth concrete slab under the bus & to the right side to do this. (Trans is 800 lbs!)
Since the bus has spring brakes & the parking brake was not functional, I removed the drum & related parts while it was apart. (Really cleans up the area). Drum had to be pressed off the output flange. Came loose hard! |
John Rigby (65.112.227.94)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 1:01 pm: | |
With my tranny out, I had problems with the nut and bearing. Used heat to pull the drum.I did not have a cherrypicker so I used two floor jacks one under the center of the tranny, the other under the V drive. Had concrete to roll it out.
I.5 hours wow thats great. Took 4hrs with Tami helping.( I didnt think it was to bad for a salesman and a Nurse ).
John |
Jim-Bob (12.46.52.74)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 3:06 pm: | |
Well, John, it took more than 1.5 hours the first time. But the second time I used the wing nuts & zipper I'd installed on the first round. I'm certain the 'picker would have improved your speed. I didn't worry about balancing the trans, just wrapped a chain tight around the trans at the middle. It balanced perfectly. The boom just fit under the top of the side doorway.
When I did the clutch, I did the rear seal in the DD but the parts house sold me a defective seal. Correct rotation (color) but it had an imperfection on the lip. Darn thing leaked worse with the new seal!
Rear nut needs 600ft/lbs. An 8 foot pipe on a 3/4" torque wrench works. Needed another long pipe bolted to the flange with a friend hanging on it to keep it from turning.
And hey, the good thing about about having a nurse as a mechanic's helper is that first aid is just seconds away. The bad thing is she makes you wash your hands before eating your Big Mac! |
Bill (205.188.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 5:27 pm: | |
Jim-Bob Are saying you have to use a 8' pipe to get the nut off the tail shaft of the trans???. I was hopeing to do this project without taking the trans out. Bill 4104-4032 |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 5:43 pm: | |
"The bad thing is she makes you wash your hands before eating your Big Mac!"
How are you ever going to develop a resistance to germs?
Can't you just use an air Impact?
Pulling a trans to change a seal is brutal.
Gary |
John Rigby (24.174.238.253)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 9:10 pm: | |
Bill/Gary,
The position of the angle drive makes it in my opinion to difficult to change it without pulling the tranny.
Gary these decrepid old 4104,s are not like the newer spivy MCI,S or Prevost. Everything on the 04 you can get to, but sometimes you have to pull the tranny for the fly wheel( once I found my fly wheel wobling, all the bolts had sheared except one bearly holding it to the fly wheel ) clutch, throw out bearing angle drive. With Bill,s method and 1.5 hours thats not to bad??
Bill what are wing nuts and Zipper? Where do they go?
Thanks
John |