| Author | Message | ||
| gary throneberry (Garhawk)
Registered Member Username: Garhawk Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 68.186.130.83 Rating: N/A |
Hey All, My bus won't start - conventionaly, that is. First off, it is a 1989 Model 20 NJT Eagle with a DD Series 60. The normal start procedure was: a) turn on Master Switch b) wait 6 to 8 seconds and push the start button. On occasion, that procedure would malfunction requiring a jump-start across the relay inside the rear engine compartment. Yesterday, that procedure went south for good. The only way to start the engine is through the start relay at rear. Along with the front panel start being in denial, there is no longer power to the cruise control,(and just when I had a solution to getting the cruise control to cruise). There is power on the incoming lead at the start switch and, when closed, power transfers to the outgoing lead. Seems the problem lies between the start switch and the start relay in the rear. Anyone have an idea? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 2278 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
should We assume that you have good healthy batteries with a full charge? | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 187 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 173.180.125.174 Rating: N/A |
Gary a good chance is that you have a bad ground some where. get out your manual and start looking for the ground point and clean it up, it will not hurt any thing by cleaning it and just might clean up other issues too. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 1408 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 24.251.184.12 Rating: N/A |
Gary, make sure the alternator is energizing the starter won't work if not energizing if it was one of the few that had a electric starter if it was air and was changed over manuals will do you no good I feel for you chasing all the white wires down if you don't have a NJT manual with the numbers (Message edited by luvrbus on February 21, 2012) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1704 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.226.28.134  Rating: N/A |
I'm with Mel...look for ground problems. I would, as LUVR says start at the alternator. (BTDT) FWIW RCB | ||
| gary throneberry (Garhawk)
Registered Member Username: Garhawk Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 68.186.130.83 Rating: N/A |
Yep, batteries are in good health. Have cleaned all grounds which should matter. Left some others for another un-hurried time. As mentioned in my original post, the 12v lead into the start switch is hot. When the switch is closed, the outgoing lead becomes energized. Conclusion: switch good and power sent to rear panel solenoid through whatever devices NJT or PO devised. Because of the 6 to 8 second delay in the start switch (from touch to starter) it seems to me that the circuit travels through a time-delay device of some sort. If so, what do you think that animal resembles and, where would it most likely reside? Go to rear panel and energize the small power lead on the solenoid from some extraneous source and, bus starts right up. Does that rule out the alternator? Yes, the NJT bus was originally an air starter and I have the two major wiring diagrams. (little does it do me to attempt reading them - it's a whole lot like spilled spaghetti). Yes again, all (except for some after wiring via later technicians) wires are white with numbers. It has not been overly difficult to find and decifer the numbers however, it is extremely difficult to follow their routes through all the combined/closed wiring looms. Please stay with me guys, I need all the help available. If you have further thoughts based on this last bit of information, they will be appreciated. I'll keep you posted as to progress and, hopefully a final solution! | ||
| gary throneberry (Garhawk)
Registered Member Username: Garhawk Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 68.186.130.83 Rating: N/A |
Yep, batteries are in good health. Have cleaned all grounds which should matter. Left some others for another un-hurried time. As mentioned in my original post, the 12v lead into the start switch is hot. When the switch is closed, the outgoing lead becomes energized. Conclusion: switch good and power sent to rear panel solenoid through whatever devices NJT or PO devised. Because of the 6 to 8 second delay in the start switch (from touch to starter) it seems to me that the circuit travels through a time-delay device of some sort. If so, what do you think that animal resembles and, where would it most likely reside? Go to rear panel and energize the small power lead on the solenoid from some extraneous source and, bus starts right up. Does that rule out the alternator? Yes, the NJT bus was originally an air starter and I have the two major wiring diagrams. (little does it do me to attempt reading them - it's a whole lot like spilled spaghetti). Yes again, all (except for some after wiring via later technicians) wires are white with numbers. It has not been overly difficult to find and decifer the numbers however, it is extremely difficult to follow their routes through all the combined/closed wiring looms. Please stay with me guys, I need all the help available. If you have further thoughts based on this last bit of information, they will be appreciated. I'll keep you posted as to progress and, hopefully a final solution! | ||
| Steven Foster (57_gmc)
Registered Member Username: 57_gmc Post Number: 76 Registered: 12-2010 Posted From: 24.151.174.38  Rating: N/A |
Hi Gary: If you some help this is Steve over here @ Lewisburg Airport. I can come over and help you with your problem if you need me ... Just let me know Cell phone 931-619-2642 | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 657 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38  Rating: N/A |
Steven A true bus nut. Thats what is all about. One bus nut helping another. Bill | ||
| Steven Foster (57_gmc)
Registered Member Username: 57_gmc Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2010 Posted From: 24.151.174.38 Rating: |
Thanks Bill for the nice words but I am only about 18 miles away and I would go and help ANY Bus Nut for sure !!! Steve | ||
| gary throneberry (Garhawk)
Registered Member Username: Garhawk Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 68.186.130.83 Rating: |
OK Guys, We have the start procedure on a 0 degree heading with all systems GO! After having run the start circuit from front to back with no success, I decided to begin at the rear start switch and work forward. Using the suggestion from some of you, I moved the rear start switch from front to rear and back to front again. Just for giggles, tried the front panel start switch and, sure enough, the engine fired. Tried the same procedure again and no such luck - everything dead once more. Removed the rear start switch panel and found a pinched and bare wire from some previous removal and reinstallation - problem solved! Now we have normal start procedure, jakes, cruise back on and, all systems seem to behave properly. After repairing the rear start switch wiring, I decided to crawl underneath and ground the G2 wire from the ECM. Eric Brown had received the advice from a local truck dealer source to begin the healing process for our cruise controls on the DD S60s. A quick trip out the by-pass proved the advice from the trucker is sound - that is one solid cruise control. The needle appeared to be glued to the speedometer glass @ 55 mph with no more than 15 rpm movement in the tachometer. All that's left is to relay a tap into the brake lights for cancellation. There's even more good news. During the process of trying different combinations of start procedures, I stumbled across a set of relays wherein lies the elusive time-delay. Didn't nail it down just yet, but will as soon as I have the wife handy to operate the switches while I feel for the little bugger. Thanks to all of you who responded. Steve, that was a really kind offer to come over and help. You don't know how close I was to calling. Eric, maybe we should throw in together and buy the trucker a nice dinner. Clifford, you're right - if you find a wire other than white on an NJT 20, it's an add-on or repair. Pete, what can I say, your tops! | ||
| Steven Foster (57_gmc)
Registered Member Username: 57_gmc Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2010 Posted From: 24.151.174.38 Rating: N/A |
Go thing you got it fix Im much better with aircraft than my own bus LOL !! Be sure to keep my phone number if you need any help later on be glad to help... Come over some day when you get run out of house but call to make sure Im in town!! See you later and glad you got it running... Steve and Linda |
