| Author | Message | ||
| Ace (172.164.14.22) Rating: N/A |
Getting ready to do fresh water plumbing as tanks are installed and boxed in. Our Eagle had all the valves on curb side though the fresh water inlet was on drivers side. What is most preferred? Valves all on drivers side or curb side. In our H3 the 50 amp shore power is on drivers side as is the water inlet. Though my tanks are now boxed in, I still have the option to do it either way. Thanks... I think Ace | ||
| h3JIm (68.107.62.94) Rating: N/A |
Wherever you think will be most convenient for you. Most likely and hopefully you will seldom use the shutoffs, so I would think that while you would make them accessable, that you would use the prime areas for something else you would use more often. Or alternatively wherever is easiest for you to plumb them in. Having had another bus before, where did you like them? I am putting my cold water shutoffs on the driver's side next to the pump, water inlet and tanks, while I am puting the hot water shutoffs next to the hot water heater - and running 3/8 line to minimize the amount of water I have to water prior to getting hot water. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (67.182.110.77)
Rating: N/A |
Ace - I've seen the fresh water plumbing valves on both sides. . . Marathon, IIRC, puts them on the street side, and a Liberty Coach I saw a few weeks ago had them on the curb side. Just a thought, but I wonder if they'd be more convenient if they were on the same side as the fresh water fill inlet? On a somewhat related (or expanded) thought. . . would it make sense to have the various valves on the same side of the coach as the above-floor plumbing they're serving? HTH, at least the thought process. . .  RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA PS: Did you get the short note I sent to your motorsports mailbox? | ||
| Ace (172.164.14.22) Rating: N/A |
Thanks Guys! I wasn't sure if there was a "code" or something. I mean I learned my lesson on the last application I did! I will consider doing just that! RJ... NO! What was it? Since the hurricane we have lost all PC use except for this laptop. Heck we just did get power back to the house Friday evening! Next will be the new roof, then the privacy fence and then new exterior paint. Yea, we will be busy in the next few ????'s! Did I mention were working on the coach too? Ace | ||
| Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81) Rating: N/A |
The approach I've typically seen is to concentrate the valves in the area occupied by the pumps/filters/tanks. I don't remember otherwise, but I also wouldn't store it in memory in any case. Not that it's wrong, just that the approach wouldn't interest me. I subjectively think that the effort/material related to installation would be reduced if everything was co-located. At the same time, if something went wrong and you needed to shut things down, you, (or someone in your place when you're away from the coach), isn't scrambling through all of the bays to access the correct valve (although there is some logic to "the bay right below the plumbing fixture") Usually, I'd want to keep the bays locked for security, except for the "water works" which is frequently used for cleaning up for non-water related purposes also. A little effort constructing a "facade" panel like in Marathons, prevents access to the expensive parts and would provide a certain amount of comfort if left open while parked. I'd guess the answer depends on the installer's intuitive sense as to what works best for them. If you're a "left handed brain" you design for "left handed living" Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.212.45) Rating: N/A |
Many parks have all the lifestyle supplys on the drivers side . Not all , but probably the majority. My sugestion is for a pressure regulator at the campsite water faucet (the better adjustable & repairable one, with a dial) AND a house style pressure regulator inside the coach. I have been at a few places where the water pressure was VERY high , so protecting the hose AND coach works for me. A different syle precaution is to ONLY work off the coaches internal water tank , no overpressure required. But the coach fill should be oversized to 2inch so a hose can just be stuck in with no thought for fill vents and overpressuring the tank We use a split concept , , TASTE the water , if its "drinkable" its OK to hook up the hose to the coach , if its UGH Chlorinated pool waste, we stay on the internal supply. A water supply from campground faucet is great to operate the Jaccuzi , washmachine , dish washer if thats Your way.. FAST FRED | ||
| George Myers (12.74.75.48)
Rating: N/A |
Don't forget that the valves must be kept warm in freezing weather. This is easier if they are together. The tank can be protected by insulating one side and heating the other. | ||
| John that newguy (199.232.240.33) Rating: N/A |
Nice job Ace. The suggestion to put it all on the same (driver's) side was a good one. Why run around from one side to another, should anything go wrong? And leaving that bay open for quick response, wasn't a bad idea either. | ||
| DaveD (142.46.199.30)
Rating: N/A |
On our coach we put the valves near the devices they were serving. All valves are accessible from the luggage bays. Galley sink and dishwasher valves (3) are in the forward luggage bay just below its ceiling on the passenger side. Bathroom valves (5) are just below the rear luggage bay ceiling on the driver's side. Fresh water inlet connection, as well as waste tank valves and hose connection are all located in the rear luggage bay, on the driver's side. A deck plate is used on the floor of the luggage bay to provide access though the floor to the waste water drain connection. Fresh water connection access is provided through the floor of the luggage bay by means of a round rv cord access type port. FWIW Dave D | ||
| Nick Morris (Nick3751) (209.247.222.47)
Rating: N/A |
I'm planning on putting all my pipeing in the wet bay and running from there up to where it's going. Since I'm setting up to possibly live in a cold climate this was I only have to heat one bay to keep all my liquids above freezing. | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.143.137)
Rating: N/A |
Ace, I don't know if you pinged into the thread when I was trying to figure this out. I made a home-made kind of manifold - it resides on the front wall of the rearmost bay on the street side.  Of course, one of your arch-nemesis'es called it Rube Goldberg so you might want to do it like this just to spite him. | ||
| Jayjay (64.12.116.135) Rating: N/A |
Hey Susan, tell Ace for me, that he needs to get a copy of the plumbing code. Somewhere in there is says all sevices (including electrical) shall be at the left rear of the coach body, no more that 15 feet from the rear bumper and no less than five feet. Actually it's been several years since I had to look it up, so double check it before cutting any holes. If you put in a remote controlled dump valve, then you must have a cap on your sewer drain while driving. See 'ya in Arcadia!!! Cheers...JJ | ||
| Airless in Mississippi (68.243.84.64) Rating: N/A |
Dumb question here... What is the expected life of the tank you hung ace? I know the poly tanks I have seen over the years have a tendancy to harden and break. Esp if ever exposed to any sunlight. I dont know how long the poly lasts but it would seem to me that the metal tanks would last longer. I wonder if I could fit them into a MCI9? | ||
| Stan (68.150.152.113) Rating: N/A |
Airless: Metal tanks are subject to rapid corrosion, and stainless steel tanks are subject to weld cracks on the thin metal corners. A steel tank would probably be ideal if you can find someway to line it with a plastic resin to protect the metal. The rotocast high density polyethlene seems to be most common and gives good service. If it only lasts thirty years you can replace it! | ||
| John that newguy (66.19.72.43) Rating: N/A |
Airless - To corroborate with Stan's comment.. Not that it should be of any real concern to anyone doing a conversion, but I posted a few links on that "other thread" that dealt with using stainless steel tanks for wastewater. Most all that I've read (and to my total amazement), claim that the welds will not hold due to the corrosive effects of waste. It's apparently the same reason they do not use steel septic tanks any longer. Will it matter in a "bus"? I doubt it. Plastic may last longer, but it might depend on the amount of vibration... and concentration of weight on any one particular area of the tank. http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/04-html/4-1.html http://www.ppfahome.org/tips/casetips.html | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
I read through the two links you posted and glazed over after about thirty thousand words. Is there a part about welds giving way? (It may be there, but I ran out of coffee) Or just general Info? Everybody always says this about SS welds, but I never see any valid references. I can't imagine why the welds would corrode differently than the base material. At least mine never have. I do use several differnt alloys of SS though. "Plastic Tanks are best" is a reasonable statement, due to their resistance to corrosives, sewage being a wicked corrosive, but if we're talking about a STAINLESS tank, it's pretty darned corrosion-resistant. Also, we see plastic tanks hardening with age and cracking after 15 - 20 years in any case, and you'd probably get that service life out of stainless. Anybody got any extra stainless tanks laying around? Gary | ||
| Ace (172.201.105.246) Rating: N/A |
I don't even know where SS got started! Mine sure aren't! Ace... aka OUT member | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
I just re-read Stan's post, he's not talking weld degredation, but about stress cracks in the corners which is true about stainless if you go too thin. Ace--did you line your metal waste tank? Gary | ||
| Airless in Mississippi (68.243.125.107) Rating: N/A |
I would like to know what the expected life is of a metal tank. I have seen plenty of metal waste tanks in boats and none have had the welds affected. I know that the plastic degrades and I have seen it many times. | ||
| Stan (68.150.152.113) Rating: N/A |
No matter what material you use for tanks, a critical factor is the material thickness. I have helped remove and reweld several cracked corner welds on SS tanks, both sewage and fresh water. If the tanks were made out of sufficient thickness of SS to resist any movement then they would probably be great. The penalty would be cost and weight. Also with a mild steel tank, it will last a long time if it is thick enough. There is no question that urine is a very corrosive liquid and will attack mild steel. Most plastic tanks will degrade in sunlight if not made with UV protected plastic. Since Bus conversion tanks are inside a bay they will have a long life if they are quality made tanks. | ||
| Ace (172.171.38.229) Rating: N/A |
Gary, no not yet but as soon as I have dinner I'll go right out and do it! My black tank is an aluminum fuel tank from Perterbilt converted! VERY easy to remove IF I have a problem down the road and something that can be repaired by ME at NO cost or help! I made them so I think I should be able to repair them, again, IF I have to! By the way, surprised to find out tonight that my H3 Prevost has a 240 gallon PLASTIC fuel tank. Are you? Ace | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.101.181)
Rating: N/A |
Stan--Same here, I think folks try to go cheap because of the cost of ss, and they try it with 18ga or whatever. I'd not go with less than 14 ga. Ace--We used to use some stuff that looked like thin contact cement, but was the color of zinc chromate primer. we would coat every tank, whether a new build or a repair, as extra insurance. not only would it eliminate pinhole problems, but it would extend the life of a tank. I would certainly use it on an aluminum waste tank. Not surprised at all, I've been working with plastic tanks since the early 80's or at least I did when I was working with them. Gary | ||
| John that newguy (66.217.105.43) Rating: N/A |
Oh well.... I suppose I'll go the round, just to prove I'm not nutz: From : http://boatbuilding.com/content/sanitation.html "As with all bandwagons, everyone who thinks he can make a dollar off it wants to jump on. Consequently, just about anything that will, ever has, or might hold liquid till any warranty expires is being offered for sale as a holding tank. It’s an area of the boat where no one wants to spend money—in fact that’s true of the whole sanitation system. Even when boat builders and boat owners aren’t cutting every corner they can, they’re often using the wrong materials thinking they’re offering something better. Although you’ll see aluminum and stainless holding tanks, no metal of any kind should ever used to hold sewage. Urine is the most corrosive material it’s possible to put next to any metal." And here: http://www.tek-tanks.com/marine_sanitation.html "Although you'll see aluminium and stainless holding tanks, no metal of any kind should ever used to hold sewage. Urine is the most corrosive material that is possible to put next to any metal. If you are in doubt (ladies will have to take our word for it), notice the dividers between urinal stalls in men's toilets. If that facility has been open for more than a week, no matter how clean and well-maintained it is, even though the dividers are stainless steel coated with enamel, you'll see rust stains from the bolts that attach the dividers to the tile." Regarding SS: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-head.html "I was advised buy a surveyor to keep the bilge dry and the keel bolts dry as if they are continually covered with water it starves the stainless steel for oxygen and deterioration of the stainless steel threads can result (R. Norquist)." A Google search will produce more of the same dialog. I did a search for waste tanks when I had considered using all Stainless Steel or Aluminum tanks, rather than the weak appearing plastic types. If I got the metal tanks for free (as someone else here had), I'd certainly use them and mount them in a manner that would allow easy removal if needed. But then, I'd do the same for the less expensive plastic ones, also. Airless... I doubt any tank designed for the purpose will present a problem if it's mounted in a manner that's conducive to the engineered design of the tank. Will stainless last longer than plastic? Maybe; maybe not. The plastic holding tanks mounted under the RVs I had, had to be replaced and/or repaired. So did both the metal gas tanks, from rust. The fresh water tank inside both RVs did not have to be repaired or replaced. In both cases, they sat on the hard floor surface. And Ace... Please do not take anything personally. You did a fine job with the materials at hand and I doubt you'll ever have a problem. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.101.181)
Rating: N/A |
JTNG. Here we go again. the first of two opinion posts you make, you have a reference to: "Although you’ll see aluminum and stainless holding tanks, no metal of any kind should ever used to hold sewage. Urine is the most corrosive material it’s possible to put next to any metal." and then, you post: "Although you'll see aluminium and stainless holding tanks, no metal of any kind should ever used to hold sewage. Urine is the most corrosive material that is possible to put next to any metal." What is strange about this? Well, two things really: 1) Other than a concatenation, they're both the same statement. 2) they're both wrong (And were wrong when you posted them to the "Bay ceiling....tank" thread too) I'm fairly certain that the author of this quip is neither an engineer, Chemist nor a metalurgist, because the statement: "Urine is the most corrosive material..." is Rolling-on-the-floor laughable. The component in Urine that is so corrosive is Ammonia. Ammonia is used in farming for the infusion of Nitrogen (Which is the real corrosive) What do they store Ammonia in? Stainless Steel tanks. Now tell me why the welds in SS tanks dissolve, I really want to know about that. Gary | ||
| Ace (172.156.181.149) Rating: N/A |
John, the only time I take things personal is when someone bashes the work that was done without knowing first hand or seeing in person exactly what was done! You will learn that there are a few guys on HERE do just that! It's never right because they say so, all without seeing the work or material used! This stems from not only my tank but insulation, wiring, sealant, tires, etc.! You get the point! For example, I know a lot of bus conversions that use stranded wire in the form of extension cords. Is it right to do so? Probably not BUT... it does work and has worked without failure for quite some time. Same as with MY tank! There are other ways to do things that work well but to openly state they are wrong without justification just starts trouble! As witnessed here! Ace | ||
| Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81) Rating: N/A |
Having experience in GMAW (MIG) and GTAW (TIG) of SS: I wonder that thin walled SS tanks have problems more because of poor design and poor construction (which would include insufficient wall thickness) than the material itself. 1. Properly designed metal tanks don't have square corners. (But SS is admittedly harder to form in the "better" alloys) 2. Properly welded SS is back purged with an inert gas and thereby doesn't (shouldn't) experience chromium precipitation; 3. Chromium precipitation sets up stress risers in the same place the alloy is weakened by the precipitation. 4. The square corners (especially with thinner walls) introduce bending loads that take advantage of the weakened metal. I understand from a Lockheed engineer that a square cornered tank has never survived a FAA shake table test. Thicker SS sheet has more heat sink capacity and lessens the occurrence of Chromium precipitation in addition to simply being stronger against the imposed loads. If, as stated, the welds on SS tanks give out and not the sheet, I would suspect the failures in that location to one or more of the above factors. Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| John that newguy (66.19.73.53) Rating: N/A |
On the other hand Gary... Maybe waste and sewage does indeed play havoc with metal and erode the welded joints prematurely. Sure Gary, there's nothing wrong with doing it any damned way you'd like. But to disregard the possibility of having a premature break in a stainless steel tank used for sewage, simply because someone insists it's foolish to believe available information? Maybe you're right and the "anti-stainless" boat and sewage guys are wrong? I may not believe in the Easter Bunny, but I guess I'll have to believe in you if you tell me Stainless doesn't rust or corrode when exposed to sewage (or deteriorate if kept under water), and that using any metal is perfectly fine as a container for sewage. I never gave it a thought prior to these threads. I am now abandoning my search for decent Stainless Steel tanks and will likely end up with the standard plastic el'cheapos. If I had free metal tanks the size I wanted, or ones priced the same as plastic, I'd use 'em. But to pay more for what could possibly not last as long? How's that go again? "well, EXcuuuuUZE MMMEEEEeee" | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (67.182.110.77)
Rating: N/A |
RE: Stainless Steel Tanks Swimming pool filters have been made with SS for years - and Chlorine can be awfully corrosive if the water balance gets off - yet they hold up on average at least 15 - 20 years, sometimes longer. MCI has used SS for their holding tanks - and for the entire restroom. Haven't seen any that the RR didn't look OK (well, battered and worn, maybe), even after hundreds of thousands of gallons of urine has been splashed all over the darned things during the coach's commercial service life. Of course, the RR is something that gets serviced VERY frequently for most bus companies, so the SS is cleaned regularly, which, I'm sure, prolongs it's life. IIRC, I think Eagle, Prevost, VanHool, Setra and GMC all use/used SS for their holding tanks, too. Will have to check my 1964-vintage GM's this weekend. . . IMHO,FWIW, I think that as often as most RV folk dump and rinse their coach's holding tanks, the ongoing corrosion discussion becomes a moot point, as the material will probably outlast the owner! This thread has gone from fresh water to sewage! Ah, well, what goes in, must come out, and it obviously has! RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81) Rating: N/A |
I have a friend from the airport that designs and builds Tomato Processing Equipment and another that recently completed the electrical at one of the first's plants near Bakersfield. Since it's food grade, it's all done in SS. I visited the site during construction. Amazing endeavor! One of JohnTNG's links quotes as follows: MICRO ORGANISMS These organisms are commonly used in sewage treatment, oil spills and other cleaning processes. Although there are many different uses for these "bugs", one common one is for them to eat the carbon you find in waste and other hydrocarbons, and convert it to carbon dioxide. The "bugs" fall into three categories: Aerobic, the kind that need oxygen. Anaerobic, the kind that do not need oxygen. Facultative, the type that goes both ways. If the protective oxide layer is removed from stainless steel because of rubbing or damage, the "bugs" can penetrate through the damaged area and attack the carbon in the metal. Once in, the attack can continue on in a manner similar to that which happens when rust starts to spread under the paint on an automobile. Looks like poor welding technique for SS or just the material for mild steel is a food source for the bacteria - and we're just little bacteria factories! Interestingly, the link explains that it isn't the "stainless" that's stainless, its the Chromium Oxide layer that forms on the surface of the SS. My prior comment should be disregarded in relevant part! The links are worth the time to read, if you're curious. Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| FAST FRED (4.247.48.16) Rating: N/A |
Most newer boats (25 to 75ft) have switched to plastic FUEL tanks as the ideal material. Unfortunatly the plastic used expands , the first time when filled. So the mfg make the box to hold the tank about 2% oversized , fill tank with gas or diesel , wait a couple of days , and squirt foam arroun the perimeter of the tank. Plastic for waste and FW has been the std for decades. Remember boats will get even more impact loading from hitting waves at speed , than our Rv's will dropping into potholes , or inner city roads. Plastic works for me, FAST FRED | ||
| John that newguy (66.217.105.101) Rating: N/A |
Well... There we have it!..... errrrrr... what was the question again? I found long ago, that most people don't bother to read at a "link" when it's provided. Especially so, if their mind's already been made up. (I've been one of those type also; I'm older now) After looking over the toilet in our MC9 and not finding much rust in or out, I can see why the myth of stainless steel is perpetuated. (And Gary, that's why I said that it likely will not make a turd's worth of difference if we use plastic or stainless) I did say however, that I was amazed to read that a (welded) stainless steel tank may not last a few years, if submerged or used for sewage. Thus the reason why I suggested to Airless, that paying the price for a stainless (or any metal) tank may not be worth it for the longer term. Maybe it'll last, maybe not, but a plastic tank designed and installed for the use intended by the manufacturer, likely will. I don't know about anyone else, but I've bought and thrown out enough stuff through the years to know enough to be wary of a product, if only through rumor. If the one telling me it's bad isn't trying to sell me their product instead, I would take their suggestion to heart. | ||
| Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81) Rating: N/A |
JohnTNG, You appear to be just as stubbornly focused as some of those you recently took to task! What makes you think knowledge and logic will prevail over rumor, gossip and clique dynamics? [You are good as searching out links, however!] Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| John that newguy (66.217.105.101) Rating: N/A |
Marc - HA. Man, don't help me start another war here, willya'? We did enough damage last time. My last comment "If the one telling me it's bad ", was intended to be read as: "If the web item telling me it's bad". I certainly did not intend to imply to anyone, that -my comments- should be heeded or even considered. But, it's always been my opinion, that anyone not trying to sell you something may be a bit more objective regarding the usual and possibly myth induced, "facts" of life. (And Gary.... put the gun DOWN, son..) | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
"On the other hand Gary... Maybe waste and sewage does indeed play havoc with metal and erode the welded joints prematurely. " Why? Magic? Sunspots? Alchemy? Tell me, I'm dying to know. I mean maybe you can turn straw into gold, if you're "Open Minded" enough. The use of SS is not a "Perpetuated Myth" but an acknowledged industry standard. Now I know what this reminds me of. It's like talking to my wife sometimes. I'll tell her something related to work I've done for years, feeding and clothing her and the kids BTW, and she'll argue, contradict, etc... She'll talk to one guy she doesn't even know that tells her the same thing, and it's gospel. Nothing is truly impervious to decay and eventual failure. Plastic, SS, whatever. Frankly, I don't see SS EVER rotting out, but I suppose if you left your black tank full for a year or so, it you could start to see crevice corrosion, or the bacterial phenomenon mentioned (But you'd be stupid too, and I never said SS was stupid-proof). For our purposes of a bus conversion, SS will do fine for a holding tank as long as structural issues, as in what Stan and Marc have mentioned, are considered. You state your references as some point of fact, but they're only opinions, clearly erroeous ones. FF--Most of the larger boats use bladders in the metal fuel tanks AFAIK, Mine will be retrofitted with them. I have no knowledge of what's coming out of Tiawan these days though. As well, Plastic holding tanks are just plain cheaper to use. I haven't seen a waste holding tank in a boat for a long time as most, including mine have MSD units aboard. Marc--My uncle was one of the millwrights that built the tomato processing plant in Oakdale (Think Ketchup) also fruit processing plants. Here's a trivia question for ya' How do they peel fruit? JTNG When I said we should start an argument, I meant a NEW one, not a sequel to the old one. Gary | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (204.73.103.254) Rating: N/A |
Hi RJ Long, I can only speak about what Prevost used in my '84 Le Mirage XL holding tanks. The main tank was fiberglass, molded as part of the base of the restroom. The auxilliary tank, which appeared to have been factory installed, was stainless steel. Do you know what grade or number of stainless steel was used by MCI to fabricate their restrooms. If their tanks last for 25 years or more that would be good enough for me. Thanks, Sam Sperbeck La Crescent, MN | ||
| Stan (68.150.152.113) Rating: N/A |
I never had the ambition to cut open an MCI tank but from the weight, I am guessing that they were a lot thicker material than I have seen used for conversion tanks. The size of the tank, the type of construcion and the mounting system all enter into the life expectancy. If money and weight are no object, has anyone considered cast bronze? | ||
| JoHn tHaT NeWgUy (66.217.105.101) Rating: N/A |
Stan - Cast Bronze? holy crap!! I'm thinking about totally inclosing a bay and lining it with concrete. I haven't figured out where to put the leach field yet.... | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks) (66.167.143.137)
Rating: N/A |
"Do you know what grade or number of stainless steel was used by MCI to fabricate their restrooms"? I DO NOT want to participate in this thread and I can't believe I can't stop reading it. Kinda like a train wreck that you just can't look away from. I know this much about the last question, that the MCI RR SS as well as the ductwork SS is a *lot* harder than the SS below deck, such as in the bays. *Big* difference in effort required to drill/cut. It's not that it's thicker, because it isn't- if anything it's thinner above grade. But it's a lot harder. | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
Stan--Titanium JTNG--That's why you need a trailer hitch with a 10,000 capacity Gary | ||
| Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81) Rating: N/A |
GH Gary, aka "Gar" Barefoot stomping in a trough . . .???? - NOT!!!! AFAIKR, they "peal" the tomatoes with steam. However, this is an excerpted understanding from a particular processing line. Each line is tailored, i.e. designed specifically for the % of paste concentration, for example 17%. Otherwise the energy costs go exponential. It may be that for higher or lower concentrations of paste they may "peel" differently. "To peel or not to peel, that is the question!" The engineer is not available right now, I'm checking other sources for an accurate answer. Onward and Upward Marc Bourget | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
Actaualy most have gone to "GHG" for short. Actually I don' know nothing 'bout no Ketchup factory--I just know he built it. I DID get to tour a Fruit Processing factory though, they were doing pears while I was there. They peel them with LYE!!! They then water-neutralize the lye. Think about that next time you buy canned pears. Gary | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
Rating: N/A |
and oh yeah--what do they keep the lye in? c'mon JTNG, you can guess. Hint: Not cast Bronze. Gary | ||
| Chuck - PD4104 (66.44.107.138) Rating: N/A |
As to stainless steel potty tanks: In 1970, my 4104 was converted, down in Florida, for a lawyer named Harvey Stevens. I would say that Stevens was one of the pioneers of the bus conversion trend. A lot was done right, and a lot was done wrong. Anyway, he bought two unused, surplus, SS water tanks, each about 100 gallons, with rolled on end caps, and nice large radius corners on the sides. One was to be the water tank, and one was to be the potty tank. He had a professional welder install all of the appropriate SS fittings for dump valves, etc... and add some baffles to the bottom of the potty tank. All of the welds for the fittings held just fine, but sometime in the 30 years since the conversion, the bottom of the potty tank sprung a leak. I suspect the welds, but I cannot see them. The fix applied by some past owner was to cover the entire bottom of the tank with polyester resin and fiberglass cloth. Kind of ugly, but seems to have held. Why the SS potty tank failed, I just don't know, but I do know that its twin water tank sitting right beside it didn't. Both tanks are very heavy gage SS. Looking in Lincoln's "Proceedure Handbook of ARC Welding", I see the following passage: "As has been previously mentioned, the regular 18-8 alloy, in order to resist corrosion to its fullest extent, must be in its annealed condition, in which the carbon is present in solid solution. Unfortunately, this alloy is unstable under certain forms of heat treatment, namely, when heated in the range between 800F and 1400F; it undergoes a structural change which is detrimental to the corrosion resistant properties, although in some cases the mechanical properties may not be affected to an appreciable extent. The cause of this defect is thought to be due to the precipitation at the grain boundaries of very fine films of chromium-rich carbides, containing as much as 90% chromium taken from the layer of metal immediately adjacent to the grain boundary. Under these conditions the chromium content of the metal adjacent the grain boundaries may be so reduced that its resistance to corrosion will be seriously impared. This phenomenon is generally spoken of as carbide precipitation and the type of corrosion which is then very likely to occur is commonly known as intergranular corrosion. The conditions necessary to produce this change are easily realized during welding, that is heating between 800F and 1400F." -Chuck -PD4104 | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (209.128.79.46)
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I'll take 30 years... Gary | ||
| Chuck - PD4104 (66.44.107.138) Rating: N/A |
Yes, but I don't know *when* during the last 30 years the potty tank sprung a leak. It could have been early on. Not a lot of fun to deal with in any case. -Chuck - PD4104 | ||
| Chuck - PD4104 (66.44.107.138) Rating: N/A |
Let me narrow that time frame down a bit. I have owned the bus for 5 years. The guy who owned it before me had it for at least 5 years. He told me that tank had already been repaired when he bought the bus. So, the SS tank had to have sprung the leak sometime in the first 20 years of its life. -Chuck - PD4104 | ||
| John that newguy (66.19.72.34) Rating: N/A |
Bless yer heart Chuck - PD4104. | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess) (65.133.76.38)
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In Good Sam's "Highways" magazine this month are the Odorless worst holding tank mess stories. First prize winner had an aluminum tank and with one visible hole and one on the bottom. It was a marine installation, but not very old. He changed it out for plastic. Second prize was to a gent who tried to use the potty on a trailered boat with a partially full holding tank at 8000 ft after coming from sea level. The wrong kind of fountain bidet. | ||
| John that newguy (66.19.73.108) Rating: N/A |
Sffess - Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.... It's input like that, that just warms my heart! | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (204.73.103.254) Rating: N/A |
Hi Stephen, Something sounds fishy about the second prize winner. Aren't boat holding tanks vented? Even if they aren't wouldn't the overflow in the toilet have prevented that much back pressure? Sounds like a fish story to me. Thanks, Sam Sperbeck La Crescent, MN | ||
| Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary) (68.79.101.181)
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At least it smells like one! LOL Gary | ||
| FAST FRED (4.245.230.16) Rating: N/A |
Boat holding tanks are usually an "add on" , altho today most are sold with a holding tank at least as an option. Probably this was a conversion from an overboard discharge , and they didnt "bother" with the vent. Many high end (100ft+) boats are disturbed by the stench of the vent , so they simply bubble air into the bottom of the tank , preventing the bacteria from dining. Seems to work as the big boys are side by side , with only a fenders width between , Cannes , Monico or the Italian Riveria . Must be nice! FAST FRED |