| Author |
Message |
Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg) (66.58.223.108)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 7:23 pm: | |
Was thinking about ripping the AC system out of my bus but in the lower 48 I will surely need a rooftop system and was wondering if I could get an upgraded alternator that will run a rooftop AC while on the road? What do you think? |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 7:51 pm: | |
Depends on the combination of the AC and alt.
Both AC or Both DC or a combination including an inverter.
Marc Bourget |
Jayjay (64.12.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:04 pm: | |
Get a good genset with a proper exhaust. Set the thermostat, start the genset, and let 'er roll! I Do !!! ...JJ |
Don/TX (66.82.9.40)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:12 pm: | |
I did it both ways. A Heart 2500 Inverter being fed with the big old stock alternator works just fine going down the road, no genset running needed.
I just never could get at peace with the idea of the genset running all the time I needed roof air on the road, but most people do it routinely. |
Craig Smith (Craigs) (67.35.116.171)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:19 pm: | |
Hi Sean,
Here's what I do... The original alternator is 225 amps at 24V. I attached an SW4024 inverter to the start batteries with 4/0 welding cable. I plug the 30 amp plug from the electrical campground hookup to a 30 amp receptical wired to the inverter. This gives enough juice to run the fridge and the front A/C unit. When I plug in at home or at a campground, it keeps the batteries charged. The generator is also wired into the inverter for times that I'm not running or plugged in. Works for me.
Ctaig S |
Sean Mormelo (Sventvkg) (66.58.223.108)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:00 pm: | |
Very very cool Craig...Your setup sounds just like the flixibility i'm looking for...I dont like the idea of the gennie running while i'm going down the road and I may not be able to get a good Diesel Genny for a while due to Cost anyway. |
Frank Allen (152.163.100.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 7:57 pm: | |
I put a dash a/c sytem in mine , i wont run a gen set while running down the road, had one catch fire and theres too much left to chance when you have no idea what is going on in that compartment, it only took once to convince me. and it was a deisel set too, do whatever it takes to avoid running that thing, i do start mine if the microwave or something needs using but shut it down after. Be safe,
Frank Allen
4106 |
Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay) (208.34.240.79)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 8:47 pm: | |
__. I read on a website (forgot which) that recommended adding an additional alternator (yeah that would be an engineering challenge on some vehicles) to give enough power to charge start batteries, charge house batteries, run air conditioner and microwave, etc. Makes a lot of sense to me. Of course, it would require a fairly sophisticated charge/split/inverter system, but you'll need one of those for a good setup anyway.
__. I like the idea of spreading the charge load across a couple of alternators.
Bruce Henderson, Wallace NC |
Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20) (24.175.221.41)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 8:54 pm: | |
Frank,
I would love to hear more details on the root cause of the fire with your diesel genny. Could be something there for all of us to learn. Thanks in advance. |
Marc Bourget (209.142.38.81)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 5:43 am: | |
Dave Smead of Ample Power agrees with spreading the charge across of couple of alternators, but IIRC, there are some concerns to address in order to do it efficiently and safely.
I think it is more involved than hooking up a couple of one-wires!
In any case, the review would benefit most all of us. |
Frank Allen (152.163.100.133)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:07 am: | |
greg, had a fire caused by fuel leak in the fuel pump of the gen set, sprayed fuel all over the place and caught the plywood floor on fire, we brought it under control very fast, but you asked
Frank Allen
4106 |
Greg Roberts (Gregeagle20) (24.175.221.41)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 8:48 pm: | |
So maybe another option would be preventive maintenance on a regular basis and keep the easily flamable items out of the compartment. Engineering controls must surely be the answer. After all, we run down the road with the main diesel engine running under the same risks. |
JackInKC (65.30.16.104)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:07 pm: | |
Try Pathmaker: I plan to have separate battery banks for starting and coach but to join the two with a Trace Pathmaker. This 200 amp switch acts as a battery isolator is both directions. The generator will charge the starting batteries after the coach batteries are charged. The alternator will charge the coach batteries (and the inverter >> air conditioner) once the starting batteries have been replenished. I am using the shore line / generator switching capability in the SW4024 (actually 2x SW4024).
Everything is installed and working except the cable from the pathfinder to the starting batteries (20 ft or so). It will take a little tweaking to get it all to work as planed. It might so something like this:
Have the pathmaker pass power from the alternator to the coach batteries when the coach batteries drop to 24 volts. Don’t let the SW4024 start the generator until the coach batteries drop to 23 volts.
I seem to be having trouble with the two SW4024s talk to each other when it comes to charging the batteries (run in parallel); I may have to restrict battery charging to only one inverter.
Pathmaker |
Jayjay (64.12.116.135)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:54 pm: | |
Seems to me that by the time you buy an extra alternator, buy a 24V inverter, buy switches, relays, breakers, wiring, electrical boxes, extra battery cables, extra batteries, maintenance and replacement cost on the batteries in the future, you could have a pretty close shot at a decent used diesel genset... which you eventually want anyway.
To each his own, I just think the inverter/battery systems installed in most coaches are too maintenance intensive. ...JJ |
Johnny (4.174.106.20)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 10:36 pm: | |
Bruce: That sounds like my plan--but the 2 systems will be COMPLETELY separate. They will have the same connections (so either can be used for "chassis" power if one fails), but will not be electrically connected in any way. |
FAST FRED (4.245.212.98)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 4:58 am: | |
Trace has a special chord that goes between their parallel inverters to get them to act right.
FAST FRED |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 10:24 pm: | |
A complicated option I never see mentioned is to use a hydraulic pump on the engine to drive a hydraulic motor turning a generator. There was one of these on Ebay about 8 months ago. They are used on trucks that need to supply power at the jobsite for tools etc. Nice but complicated and expensive. I suppose you could run the same generator off a hydraulic pump driven by a small diesel engine with a switch over valve or one way valves to allow you to use either the small engine or the bus engine. I wonder how much power is lost in the hydraulic system. But the engine need not turn a constant 1800 RPMs. The speed control is on the hydraulic motor/generator side of the system. Just need adequate pressure and flow.
The hydraulic gensets do exist, so you don't have to invent one. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 10:08 am: | |
Fabco Hydraulic Generators
I'm converting my windlasses, steering, bowthruster, etc... on my boat to Hydraulic. I'm thinking about converting the generator too. I'd only need a small diesel aux to run every thing hyd. While underway, the hyd pump on the mains can drive everything.
Gary |
FAST FRED (Unregistered Guest)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 10:17 am: | |
You may find the speed controll of the frequency far from what your used to on a std noisemaker.
AS the engine speed changes , both the volume and pressure will vary from the pump, causing the Hyd motor/generator head to vary in speed.
IF you cruise at a constant RPM , everything will eventually settle down , BUT if your autopilot fires Hyd solenoids (as mine does) the change in pressure may cause unstability.May not too, but the only way to know is to try , and if it does install a large accumulator tank in the pressure line.
FAST FRED |
busone
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 11:46 pm: | |
I took at look at the http://www.fabcopower.com/ site and they also have a belt driven generator listed. On the price list it says you will also have to purchase their regulator if you want AC power while driving. For 4000 some watts the price was not too bad compared to an inverter. Would this really work or would the voltage be up and down? |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 12:57 pm: | |
A unit like that will only give 60cps and 120V at a single vehicle RPM setting.
OK with a stopped cops/fire truck car where the engine can be throttled up to the needed output for 120v use
On a coach NO
Simplest is still a stock large 225 to 300A DC alternator the coach was delivered with.
A coach with 24V would be to power up a big inverter to run 2 Air Cond.
Folks that only do a minium of camping still usually have an inverter for the microwave , and TV.
FAST FRED |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 1:29 pm: | |
I can (finally) agree with one of FF's posts. LOL
Several years ago I built several hydraulic driven alternators for use on luxury yachts. 30-40 KW units with the hydraulic pump driven by the main propulsion engine.
The hydraulic system was manufactured by a company in Texas that builds similiar units for emergency vehicles, such as fire trucks. These units are typically run at a constant RPM as are the engines on a yacht.
We found that we could not maintain a constant output frequency due to the load variations on the yacht, as well as the slow response of the hydraulic system. Also, we had to idle the engines at about 1100 RPM to maintain output.
We eventually had to remove the units (at our cost) due to customer dissatisfaction.
Based on this actual, and costly, experience, I would strongly recommend you not consider hydraulic system operation.
Richard |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 1:54 pm: | |
somehow I missed the post by FF that followed mine.
I can see how corrections by autopilot can seriously affect the supply side of any of the Hydraulic devices. I had thought that regulation and as you mentioned, an accumulator would handle this easily.
You guys say no?
I'm at least two years from tackling this project, so I have plenty of time to reconsider.
thanks,
Gary |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 2:04 pm: | |
snip "I would strongly recommend you not consider hydraulic system operation"
I should have added "for electrical AC operation." |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 7:58 pm: | |
Look at the post I just made on "ebay at BNO" for the auragen unit. The asking price is about half of retail. (I'm not the one selling it)
Basically it's an engine-driven high frequency alternator with an inverter system that'll give you an honest 5kw 120 volts sine wave power, exactly 60hz while running your engine at any speed. They use em a lot in ambulances. Personally I wouldn't bother with it- for me it was easier to just make an engine driven AC system using ronthebusnut parts, and it cost me about $1000. But if you can't go that way, the auragen system is pretty neat.... |
tvc
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 11:43 am: | |
I HAVE MCI 9 WHICH I PLAN TO CONVERT. MY THOUGHTS ON HAVING ROOF AC RUNNING WHILE ON THE ROAD IS, INSTALL A PTO DRIVEN GENSET LIKE A FARMER WOULD HOOK ON HIS TRACTORS PTO. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT SIZES AVAILABLE. |
jimmci9 #2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 4:46 pm: | |
2 things to address here... 1st is an engine driven ac generator... it'll be hard to maintain the steady rpm/s necessary to supply 60 hz output..(search the archives for more on this topic)......2nd.... on some of our field lube service trucks, we use a hydraulic driven generator to supply ac voltage output... yes the trucks are idled at about 1200rpm for necesary output, but the hydraulics are also used for the air compresor, oil, antifreeze and fuel pumps....1 of these days, i'll get to take the cover off of the generator box and see what it is... our lube service trucks run 20-24 hrs a day... 2 operators on shift work... |