| Author |
Message |
busone
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 6:37 pm: | |
Nothing like being hit by the bus you drive.
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110204_news_trimet_pedestrian.1a79f49c.html |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 6:56 pm: | |
Can you post the text of the story, I don't feel like giving out any Spam invitations, but I'd like to read the story.
Gary |
busone
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 7:01 pm: | |
Tri-Met driver run over by bus, killed
01:14 PM PST on Tuesday, November 2, 2004
By TERESA BELL, kgw.com Staff
A Tri-Met driver was killed when the bus she had been operating struck her at the Sunset Transit Center in Portland's West Hills just after noon Tuesday, officials said.
The female driver, whose name has not been released, got off her bus to fix a window and the bus started rolling. Witnesses said she stepped in front of the bus to try and stop it and got trapped.
“It struck her and she ended up pinned under the bus,” said Tri-Met spokeswoman Mary Fetsch. “It’s just a very tragic accident and a sad day at Tri-Met.”
Fetsch said this is the first employee fatality Tri-Met has had since it started operating buses 35 years ago.
She said the 56-year-old driver had been with Tri-Met 22 years and the bus, which served route #62, was empty at the time of the accident. The employee's name is being withheld, pending notification of relatives.
Tri-Met has begun an internal investigation and Beaverton Police were on the scene collecting clues as well.
Storm Smith with Tualatin Valley Fire and Rescue said an emergency crew was working to lift the bus to get the body free.
Route 62 serves Murray Boulevard and travels from the Sunset Transit Center to the Washington Square Transit Center and back. Fetsch said a relief operator is driving the route now and the accident did not cause any passenger delays. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 7:04 pm: | |
Thanks.
Sad story, I feel bad for the relatives |
Busone
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 11:55 pm: | |
They said on the local TV news that she was trying to reach in the driver window and stop the engine. She then slipped and landed under the front wheel. You just never know when it is your time. |
Bill Gerrie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 6:33 am: | |
I used to drive bus for a living and I know a lot of drivers used to open the rear doors which activated the brakes and not put on the spring brake to hold the bus. More then once the rear doors would close for no reason and then you had a runaway bus. It only took a faulty switch or wire and the results could be deadly. Buswarrior I am sure has heard of this as well. Bill |
Johnny
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 11:23 am: | |
I nominate her for a Darwin Award. |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 12:23 pm: | |
Bill -
What you talked about happens all too frequently in the transit industry, unfortunately. For others, let me explain, and I'm sure Buswarrior will concur:
There is an electrical interlock between the rear door operation and the service brakes. When the rear door is unlocked/opened, it activates a solenoid (historically located over the rear door) that takes away throttle operation and applies the rear service brakes.
Problem is, when the solenoid gets hot, it "fails", and in the process, releases the brakes and the throttle. Now you've got a potential run-away bus, if the driver hasn't set the parking brake. Another potential problem, and this creates HUGE liability issues, is this scenario:
Driver gets to his turn-around point at the end of the line, sets the parking brake, unlocks the rear door only (activating that solenoid), leaving the front door closed. He gets off the coach thru the rear doors to make a pit stop. On his way back to his coach, he sees a buddy, and they share "war stories" for a few minutes. He then climbs back aboard, and begins his run. A mile down the road, he pulls into a stop to board some folk, and automatically throws open both doors, activating the brake interlock. But because his bus just sat for 10 minutes or so with the interlock activated, the solenoid is now hot, so it "fails", and the bus starts rolling with the doors open and people trying to get on/off. Next thing you know, besides having to call the paramedics, is that the driver now wants another bus, because the interlock failed. Naturally, by the time the coach gets back to the yard, the solenoid's cooled, and the interlock works perfectly.
It's not as much of a problem as it used to be, but the potential is still there. Busone may also be correct, in that this driver was, in fact, trying to reach thru the driver's window to activate the interlock, having only opened the front door. Very sad. . .
Oh, and Johnny, thanks for your compassion. I'm sure the family will really appreciate your nomination. Will you also be sending flowers along with the nomination papers?
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 5:01 pm: | |
Johnny,
I have to weigh in with RJ, Darwin Awards usually go to those individuals that consciously and willingly put themselves in a position to justify such an award. It's not like she was attempting to jump an opening drawbridge.
On the otherhand, it is clear from a broad spectrum of activities that someone confronted with a sudden, startling, confusing or perplexing situation is not required, or even expected, to do the "best thing" just something reasonable under the circumstances.
A suddenly moving bus, where no bus was expected to move certainly presents a sudden, startling, etc. situation that presents the possibility of property damage and, as witnessed, great bodily injury or death. The fact that she made an effort is to her credit, not her derision.
Sometimes, comments such as yours are expressed in sympathethic sarcasm, thinking silently "there but for the grace of God, go I". I suspect and hope that was the case here!
Onward and Upward
Marc Bourget |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 7:03 pm: | |
you cannot get me to leave the seat unless the brake is on... |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 7:18 pm: | |
Me neither.
I've never known anyone to walk away from the driver's station w/o setting the safety brake.
Gary |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 7:30 pm: | |
I'm sorry for her family....but,she did something stupid |
BrianMCI
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 8:09 pm: | |
About 8 years ago we had a operator actually SET the parking brake on a front-end loader while it was on an incline but the problem was the parking brake was out of adjustment.
The driver jumped down to pull out a concrete stake behind his loader...
He ended up squashed between his loader and another piece of equipment
Since then, anytime anyone leaves their truck or piece of equipment for any reason it has to have wheel chocks in place.
Brian |
Marc Bourget
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 8:28 pm: | |
2D,
Unless you have some additional information in addition to what was posted above, how did you come to the conclusion that she did something stupid? |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 9:56 pm: | |
I think the presumption is that she missed setting the safety brake.
Gary |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 11:09 pm: | |
Hello.
sad story. can you imagine the conflicted thought processes in her head as it started going wrong?
We can only pray to the God we believe in that none of us are ever faced with making those kind of split second decisions, concurrently realizing we were somehow the start of it.
As noted above, those rear door/brake/accelerator solenoid interlocks are put to the test on far too regular a basis. In the transit industry, there is a general lack of understanding of how they function, and what their limitations are.
To be fair, a bus driver candidate is unlikely to be familiar with the theories involved, coils, heat and the weakening over time.
Neither, perhaps, the trainer or the mechanic.
The rear door interlock is simply to interupt the human error: it ensures the bus doesn't roll while a passenger is getting out the back door, and the driver does something goofy with their feet.
Wait, it goes through multiplex systems in the new stuff! The computers are making these decisions. Try to recreate that in the shop after an accident!
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
Ken Turner (Pipesusmc)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 11:31 pm: | |
(my German shepherd dog certified Bus Mutt, he's on his way to the D O L to get his C D L he had stepped on the DD3 brake button while we were in a restaurant and as result had his first driving test in Oregon. I had to jump in the rolling bus and slapped my hand on the foot brake just as it rear ended a car and almost shoved everything into the front of the restaurant)
Snipped from my web page.
I came out of the cafe and saw the bus coming down at me prob about 2-3 mph and ran to the driver's window to open the air passenger door the ran around the front of the bus to get inside .... SCARY... The day after I bought it !!!
THE DD3 System was the first thing to get deep sixed |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 11:47 pm: | |
Yikes!
Gary |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 7:25 am: | |
Hey TD...
All of these stories make a damned good argument for the old
Eagles with a 4 speed standard and mechanical parking/emergency
brake, ehhh? |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 8:36 am: | |
proper training..................never leave drivers seat unless the air brakes are locked...doesn't have anything to do with "OLD"................brand new...never leave the drivers seat unless the air brakes are set |
Jarlaxle
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 9:36 am: | |
"Unless you have some additional information in addition to what was posted above, how did you come to the conclusion that she did something stupid?"
Uhh, because she trusted a $15 solenoid to hold the brakes on and not the parking brakes. I NEVER leave the seat unless the bus either has the brake set or the trans in Park (on cutaways). |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 9:45 am: | |
Jarlaxel....you "almost" have it...say this allowed"never leave the drivers seat unless the air brakes are set" |
Jim Stewart (H3jim)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 10:24 am: | |
She may not have realized that opening the rear door is not the same as setting the parking brake. Seems to have the same function - open the door, and the brakes go on.
Many years ago I worked for the phone company (before they split up). One of my coworkers was the butt of a practical joke. They unplugged and removed the cord that connected the handset to the phone base, and then called her. She picked up and said "Hello, Hello", but of course no one was there. Everyone laughed and pointed out that they had removed the cord and how could she be so stupid as to not notice that fact. She replied that she had in fact noticed, but thought it was just there to keep the handset from getting lost. A 25+ year employee.
My point is that when you know how things work, some things are obvious, but to the average person, even a trained busdriver, they may not be so obvious. |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 10:54 am: | |
proper training...never rely on anything but the air brakes...on automatics...there is a TINY little pin that holds everything in locked position...who knows how many times that little pin has been abused,even before you got the bus..
DD3 were finally outlawed in the 70's...never leave them without setting the air brakes AND chocking the wheels...learning good habits means you get to see tomorrow....... |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 11:56 am: | |
Two Dogs -
Would you please tell MCI that DD3s were outlawed in the '70s? They were still installing them in the mid-80's on MC-9s, altho their current production use spring brakes.
I'm sure MCI's legal department would be glad to hear the news that the company's been installing illegal equipment on their vehicles. Would you like the address of the corporate office so you can contact them?
While you're at it, you might also want to contact GMC's legal department too, because GM used DD3s on the 4905s right up until the end of production in 1980.
Oh, and better contact Mohawk and Muncie and NAPA and countless other HD truck supply houses, because they're selling new and rebuilt DD3s also.
Understand the underlying message here???
RJL
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 12:35 pm: | |
yeah...understand.......might have dates wrong..they SHOULD have been outlawed tho..understand that R.J. ??? |
RJ Long (Rjlong)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 12:53 pm: | |
Yep, translated it means you don't like 'em, and can't say that I blame you, they're not my favorites, either.
Just talked w/ the CHP Motor Carrier's office here locally, and DD3s have NOT been outlawed, it's just that the manufacturers have simply switched over to the simpler and less expensive spring brake.
Could you have been thinkin' of the early '70's anti-lock brakes, I think they were called FMS-121's? |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 1:19 pm: | |
no...I was working for a company in the 70's that mfg. grain trailers...we had to use up these axels that had brakes that would release if they ran out of air by a certain date...because it was against the law to use them after that date..
DD3 are a P.O.S.(my opinion)...can not completely express my opinion...'cause we have certain words that don't go thru anymore...
You can talk to CHP all you want...I called them on a length problem one time AND...they told me NO trailer was allowed in CALIFORNIA that was over 30 feet long...they are a bunch of nuts............. |
Gary McFarland (Gearheadgary)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 2:52 pm: | |
...I called them on a length problem one time...
I hear they have pills for that now....
Gary |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 3:18 pm: | |
yeah...your ol' lady told me about your length problem |
jim wilke (Pd41044039)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 11:01 pm: | |
I have a problem with the concept that a dog released any properly operating DD3s. You have to release the button THEN make a 100 + PSI brake application or the bus doesn't move. But spring brakes WILL release when the button is pushed down. By the way, anybody moving brake valves around would be wise to install the valve in a vertical surface, not the horizontal area next to the driver's window if they have a dog!
Jim-Bob |
Ken Turner (Pipesusmc)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 05, 2004 - 12:01 am: | |
Jim Re THE DOG. I just bought the 05 Eagle a day or two before.. I was not familar with a DD3 system,, I parked the bus on a slight incline facing down hill.It STAYED there about an hour while we were in the restaurant..
When my wife and I came out the dog saw us AND I saw him jump onto the drivers seat, The brake button was on the right side of the seat,vertical with no safety cover.
I don't care if you have a problem with that! IT HAPPEND exactly as I have described it.
Being that I didn't understand the DD3 system, I might have not Scrunched the foot brake hard enough when I parked it.
BTW I Am not the type that peddles BS !! |
Johnny/Jarlaxle
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 05, 2004 - 10:19 am: | |
2Dogs: What about a bus with juice brakes, like most of the 30 or so at work?
(Yes, Johnny & Jarlaxle are the same person.)
I've seen older (early-70's & before) semi trailers WITHOUT spring OR DD3 brakes. When the air was gone, so were the parking brakes. |
Stan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 05, 2004 - 1:07 pm: | |
Two dogs: You must be confusing DD-3 brakes with some other kind. A DD-3 brake will stay locked up forever without air pressure and it applies a greater braking force than a spring brake. A spring brake can be released with 60 PSI whereas a DD-3 requires 100 PSI to release. |
Derek (Derek_l)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 05, 2004 - 1:13 pm: | |
Maxi? Mini maxi? That's what I remember you complaining about, Two Dogs. |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 05, 2004 - 1:13 pm: | |
maybe....I stay confused |
Phil Dumpster
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:55 am: | |
Perhaps you would understand this accident if you knew a few more things about Trimet.
Starting with their first batch of Flxible Metros in 1988, their busses are equipped with front-door interlocks. Opening the front door of the coach sets the rear service brakes the same as if you had openned the rear door. This is because a passenger was killed on a hot 100+ degree day a year before because the driver was driving with the front door open. Seems that during the accident investigation, this was found to be commonplace.
Trimet busses prior to this were ordered with air conditioners, but as they broke down, the agency opted not to spend the money to repair them. This led to a game of "bus roulette" as passengers who were not in a hurry would let a non-air conditioned coach pass until one with a working air conditioner would come along. After over half of the air conditioners were unservicable, the rest of the fleet had their air conditioners disabled, so that no Trimet bus had air conditioning.
Suffice it to say, it can get damn hot in a bus full of people on the few days Portland gets 100+ degree weather.
Soon after the Flxibles arrived, these kinds of accidents started happening. Drivers would get to the end of their route, open the front door to exit the coach, and then reach through the driver's window to close the door. If they had forgetten to set the parking brake, this would release the service brakes on the rear axle which were holding the bus stationary, allowing the coach to roll away without its driver.
After a number of these runaway bus incidents, the agency installed sensors on the driver's seats which sound an alarm if the driver leaves the seat with the parking brake released, the engine is running, and the coach is in gear. This alarm is VERY LOUD! Think of a car horn in your ear. There were some bugs at first, with the alarms going off when the bus went over a bump. Over time these bugs were worked out and the system works. However, it isn't perfect.
According to a contact I know who is a supervisor at Trimet, another driver who witnessed this accident boarded the bus and tried to back it off of the victim driver. For whatever reason he chose to abort this action and wait for the medics to arrive. He did report that the brake was set, but that the engine was running and the transmission was in gear. With the brake button pulled out, the alarm was disabled and did not sound even though the engine was running and the transmission was in gear.
Under normal circumstances, the bus still shouldn't have gone anywhere. However, if the parking brake system had a problem, such as a broken maxi spring, it is possible for the coach to move slowly if the engine was still running and the transmission was in drive when she closed the door, as that action would have released the air pressure from the service brake system on the rear axle, reducing the amount of braking force holding the coach to that of only one of the maxi springs, which only works on one wheel and isn't strong enough to hold the bus against the engine, even at idle.
It is possible that she left her bus in gear at layover on a regular basis, and the absense of the alarm sounding led her to believe the coach was secured. It's also possible she may have thought she put the transmission in neutral but in fact didn't. The selector is a membrane touchpad, and those have been known to fail. The investigation will hopefully get to the bottom of what happenned, but this may be a case of someone relying on a safety feature which was designed to protect against one situation, but not the one which killed her. |