| Author |
Message |
jay
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 6:44 pm: | |
I've got busnut fever bad and need a cure. Am looking at a nicely done 1963 4106 and 1981 MCI9. GM is 8V71 and 6V92T in the MCI. Both are automatics and have diesel and electric for systems. The MCI has 4 bunks which I'd want to remove sometime. GM is fine as is. Price difference is not that much.
Would the newer, bigger MCI be a better choice for the long term even though some remodeling would be needed? Goal in a couple years is to travel several months at a time.
Thanks in advance for the advice. |
Ron Frazier
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 7:38 pm: | |
By Ron 4104 A couple of things to ask yourself is do I want 35 ft. or 40 ft. Does the 4106 give me enough head room inside as the MC9 is taller inside. They are both good buses that will probably give you a lot of happy miles. Parts may be a little more plentiful on the MC9 and maybe a little cheaper. What it really comes down to is which one YOU like the best. Most important thing is you are going to get a bus and not a stickbuilt. If you are not informed on either of these buses as to the mechanics etc. take someone with you who is. This could save you a lot of expense & headache down the road. Happy busin'. By the way you are doing the only thing you can to help bus fever. BUY ONE! Ron 4104 |
John Rigbyj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 9:00 pm: | |
Jay. The 4106 8 or 9 mpg the MCI9 5.5 to 6.2 mpg.
The 4106 faster on the hills.
The MCI9 parts easier to get.
The 4106 more aluminum.
Like Ron said 35ft or 40ft.
I have a 4104 like Ron mine is much slower on the hills than either of these but its a stick and gets between 8 and 10mpg.The 04 has been a challenge sometimes. But its a wonderful engineerd GM marvel, that is a very important part of our family. Even when we have been parked on the side of the interstate waiting for a tow. Tami just leaned over my sholder and said,waiting on I-10 for 8 hours for the tow.
John |
Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 9:23 pm: | |
Hello Jay.
Buy a bus!
You need to carefully think about how you will maintain that bus.
MCI is still in business, the MC9 continues to be used in commercial service widely, lots of mechanics know how it works and every part is available.
GM stopped building buses 20 years ago, almost 25 for their highway models, your example is 41 years old, every year there are fewer and fewer mechanics that even have seen a 4106, never mind worked on one in the last 20 years. You have to know where to find parts, and some are getting rare.
The GM is shorter in outside length, and shorter in height. It will be a little easier to fit into small places. The GM gets better fuel mileage due to less frontal area to push in the wind, and lighter body. Which automatic is in the GM? May make a big difference in how it performs for what you want to do with the coach. The GM you looked at is ready to go, no modifications.
The MCI has a bit more space, but not as much as outside dimensions indicate, the drivetrain takes up more space. There is more hold space underneath. The MCI has more tires to replace, and more brakes to maintain, and more suspension... Being an '81, it did not come stock with integral power steering, and has a poor turning radius compared to some coaches. The MC9 you looked at requires some modifications to fit your needs.
If they are in equally good mechanical condition, I think the GM sells itself.
Depending what needs work, the MCI pulls ahead quickly.
You pays your money, and you takes your chances...
FYI, I run a '75 MC8 with 8V71 and automatic transmission.
happy coaching!
buswarrior |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 9:44 pm: | |
No one's mentioned the extra axle on the MC9! That's extra tires, tolls and maintenance. On the plus side, it's extra stability and stopping power.
The '06 is a strong bus, but it's almost 20 years older. I'm a hard worker too, but a guy 20 years younger is going to do more before he decides to hold his boss's feet to the contract... Ya'know what I mean?
You'll get more cargo space in the 40' MCI, and a bit more living space. Every inch can add up quick, once you're in it. And the one thing that turned my wife off with a 4104 we looked at, was the rounded ceiling. Our Winnegarbage was like that and it gives a claustrophobic feeling to many of us. The overhead cabinets have to conform to the interior, leaving less room and a difficult space to store in.
The fuel savings with the '04 or '06 can be nice, versus the MCI series. But the difference between 9 mpg and 6 mpg doesn't add up to an extra Mercedes at the end of a year.
On the plus side.... a 35' bus may be easier to navigate through some of the older campgrounds. Some campgrounds we stayed at had a 35' limit. We always lied with our Georgie-Boy and said it was 34' (it was 36). One place near Tampa initially refused us, but I managed to convince them that it'd fit into a 28' spot...It did. If I had the MCI, I may have had to lie a little harder.. ($$$)
If you're not going to travel for "a couple of years", why the hurry to buy? Letting a bus sit will add age fast; it's better to keep it rolling. |
BrianMCI
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 9:54 pm: | |
Back in the 70's when the normal service life for a coach was 10 years/1 million miles, Greyhound went to MCI (at the time, owned by Greyhound) and said we want you to build us a bus that can last 30 years /3 million miles.
MCI proceeded to build a coach with 90 percent stainless steel and aluminum below the floor line, a coach that went on to break the record for the highest production run for an over-the-road coach (nearly 10,000 units)... that coach is the MC-9.
I was so convinced that the MC-9 was the coach for me I began labeling my three ring binders with
bus conversion info titling them "MC-9 Conversion"
That's when I happened on a 96A3 on that E-place.
I LOVED it, I went and took a peek at it... sits proudly alongside my garage now.
But the great thing about the 96A3 is that it's mostly an MC-9 with some upgrades and a new look front end.
I think the MC-9 is the way to go, and though I'm biased, the plain fact is the difference between 41 years and 23 years in terms of finding parts and relative cost of parts, as Ron mentioned, ought to give a heads up to the MC-9
Heck, you can call MCI and order mostly every part for an MC-9 directly from them!
Brian |
neomax
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 9:57 pm: | |
I say the 9 and for these reasons:
18 yrs. Newer
4 spd opposed to 3 in the 06
6v92 as opposed to8v71
More interior space
More cargo space
Better availability of parts
More head room
Much more modern systems
The 06 does have some selling features that are better, such as manueverability and some would prefer the classic look of them, but beyond that I don't see much of a comparison. Aluminum buses are subject to corrosion just as much as steel bodied ones are to rust. At about the same price and physical and mechanical condition I would opt for the 9 on just the drivetrain factor. |
don (Bottomacher)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 10:14 pm: | |
I own both of these buses; I just got my MC9 after four years with the 06. I love them both, and I wish I could keep both. The 9 is essentially a new car to me, and I've driven antiques all my life. I'm truly going to miss driving the 06; it is small and personal and nimble, a sportscar. But the newer components and creature comforts, and the fact that body conversion is so much easier, made the decision for me. Additionally, I like the HT740; I would never put an automatic in the 06. When I send the ad in to I@n, it's going to be painful; I never met a 06 owner who didn't like them as I do. |
Frank Allen
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 1:51 am: | |
I like the 06 because its 35 ft, it is lighter than the 9 and has less tires, also very fast, has no belts on the engine to worry with, mine had a 4 sp standard in it when i got it and got 10 mpg, i put a 730 automatic in it and it gets 7.5, it is much older than the 9 but i just love the old thing, never has let me down. i would get someone to check em out good before buying one. Buses like cars are a personal choice, some like eagle, prevost, mci , gms, you just have to decide
Frank Allen
4106 |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 5:35 am: | |
Simple , so you like to really DRIVE!
Or do you like to just steer a bit as the world passes?
FAST FRED |
John Rigbyj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 7:49 am: | |
Don,
Owning both coaches. Have you had them on the hills/mountains. How do they differ from one another on those hard climbs??
John |
don (Bottomacher)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 7:47 pm: | |
The 06 is definitely faster, and I haven't had to downshift further than third gear (no Rockies here in the east,though). I don't personally think the two buses can be compared for the same use. The 06 is fun to drive, but it requires more awareness and driver involvement. The MC9 is more stately, comfortable, and "houselike" in its converted form. I really enjoyed my 48 plymouth coupe, but I also enjoy my father's oldsmobile 98, both for very different reasons. |
John Rigbyj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 8:50 pm: | |
Don,
So do I hear you saying the 4106 has more power and goes up the hill/mountains better than the MCI 9?
How about comfort at 65mph Which is better? I have a 4104 and it rides very good. Those air bags and air beams sure make a good ride.
I read some posts back conserning very expensive potential repairs are posible to the tag axle bushings, the post said in the thousands??
John |
jay
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 12:25 am: | |
After much deliberation, I put an offer in on the MCI. I should find out on Monday if it's accepted. Sure hope so.
Thanks to everyone for the input here. |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 6:08 am: | |
"So do I hear you saying the 4106 has more power and goes up the hill/mountains better than the MCI 9?"
Just do da math ,what gets you up any hill is the power to weight ratio.
An empty 04 or 06 will be under 20,000 , an empty 9 will be closer to 25,000 or 26,000.Flat Floor space is similar , but the 9 has more bay space for stuff (weight).
With the same engine which will go up the hill faster?
Which is easier to stop on the way down?
At about 2 ft lower frontal area for the 06 , which will get better fuel milage?
The classic wins on every count.
10mpg on a good one.
Have it your way!
FAST FRED |
don (Bottomacher)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 8:31 am: | |
I didn't say the 06 has more power. It has an 8-71, while my MC9 has a 6-92T. With the same engine, the 06 would definitely be quicker because it weighs less. And, the 06 does not ride the same- it is lighter and allows you to "feel" the road better, which makes it fun to drive. If you want more room, a softer and probably quieter ride, and a more sedan-like feel, the 9 is the one. Almost everything I drive is an antique, and I love them because I can be one with them while driving, like the 06. On the other hand, I really enjoy the Olds once in a while. As I said, I wouldn't sell the 06 if I didn't have to, but the 9 is the one I'll convert. |
don (Bottomacher)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 8:39 am: | |
By the way, John- if you think tag bushing repairs are expensive, wait until it's time to replace your rear axle innards. I rebuilt my 06 all the way through; it took nearly two years to locate a good ring and pinion. I had to rebuild the axle tubes, and I installed spring brakes in the process. It was worth it, but it sure wasn't cheap. If I had to pay labor, it would easily have passed six grand. |
John Rigbyj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 11:00 am: | |
Don,
I purchased a spare 4104 last year, It had a rebuilt motor, 4 valve head, 5000 miles. 3 roof airs. 7000 powertech gen set 480 hours.$2,700.00
I think its the way to go, instead of having someone else buy stip and sell to us. Now I have a good used inventory. The power tech is already on my every day 04.
John.
P.S. Some of the MCI 9 ,s I have ridden in were not as comfertable as my 4104. Perhaps as they were all limo/airport buses the shocks perhaps were bad and in need of changing. |
Johnny
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 1:07 am: | |
Dang, that genset alone probably cost close to $2700! And I'd bet that engine rebuild probably ran easily half again that much. Nice find. |
John Rigbyj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 7:54 am: | |
The engine rebuild including the new 4-valve head was $4750.00. I have already lots of parts of the bus including Radiaro,Fan and fand hub.
John |
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