| Author | Message | ||
| T. Gold (Zinguvok)
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Howdy! I've been reading this board for a while with great interest, and I finally got a membership and wanted to introduce myself (and ask a few questions, of course!). My name is Tyler Gold, I'm 19, living at home in Kaneohe, Hawaii and planning on majoring in sculpture. I got interested in bus conversions a while back, though I can't remember how -- initially I was very interested in skoolies but now I'm considering a transit conversion. No bus yet, but plenty of floorplans!  So my question was this. The local public bus company uses 40' and a few 30' Gillig Phantoms for most all of their general transit stuff. I've seen at least one that ought to be for sale/up for auction, and I'm hoping they get rid of them fairly regularly so I have a chance at grabbing one. Anyway, are these buses any good for a conversion? Do they have any space for bays, are they horrible for some reason? Or should I go with what I was thinking when I first got interested, and just look for a dognose skoolie? | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
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Welcome to the hobby. It's a wild one. It's great to get some really "young blood" in here.  In HI, you can't really drive too far before hitting the Big Blue. Now, bring your bus to the 48 and you can drive the wheels off of it. Anyways, search the archive here with "Transits" and you'll get an earfull (eyefull?). Good luck! BB | ||
| TomNPat
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You need to establish communication with George Myers who writes for various magazines, boards, and his own publication and booklets. He has a Gillig Phantom I think and is quite an authority on a variety of bus conversion topics. His email is 'bulletin@coach-builder.com' or you can call 937.426.3388 to try to get him on the phone. I think they're about to hit the road again. Welcome to the sufferings of the bus disease. TomNPat | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I used to live there...worked for a short time for COCO JO's in Kaneohe...but,mostly worked for the steel mill in Ewa beach...am guessing you want a bus to go holo holo...& not bring it to the mainland...so,a 55 or 60 mph bus should do you fine over there..first thing I would check is if they will let you register it as a motorhome...& how much it would cost..if not...how could you register it as a private bus & how much.. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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The Gillig Phantom is a very good candidate for conversion and I know of 2 or 3 converted ones. Several good points, the 1st being the T-line drive (in line engine). Very well built and Gillig has done the body work for more "outside" bus manufacturers than u can name. Their frames were used widespread. Still a widely used transit and still manufactured I think. I know they were in '98. My question is, where do u use one in Hawaii? The cost to ship it mainland would be prohibitive (based on what it cost me to ship a Suburu back and forth for my daughter 3-4 yrs. ago) | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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The Gillig Phantom is still in production, along with their Low-Floor model. The factory is in Hayward CA. http://www.gillig.com/default.htm FWIW. . . | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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maxwell...they have buses over there...Don bought one from Hawaii | ||
| T. Gold (Zinguvok)
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There's more room on the island to drive than you might think -- ferry service to the Big Island is not too expensive either, from what I understand. And the option of living without having to pay rent is very attractive to me (although there's still the whole water/waste/diesel issue). Twodogs, steel mill in Ewa Beach??? I gotta check that out PDQ! I'm a blacksmith and anvils are about as rare as hens' teeth around here. Steel mill ought to have a few. Good to know about the T-line drive -- less time spent on breakdown-related maintenance is attractive. I was wondering about the body work (plotting to cut holes in it ) but I will probably weld in extensive bracing around anything I cut out so it shouldn't matter that much. Thanks for all the help, folks! Time to start hunting for a bus. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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matter of fact....that was my job title over there...BLACKSMITH....had to make parts for the steel mill....It is in a restricted area...guard gate(etc)...EWA industrial park....name of company is "Hawaian Western Steel".....I was the only white guy there & the smallest guy...most of the guys were 6'6" & 300 pounds or so....guess BIG guys work at places like that... | ||
| Phil Dumpster Rating: N/A |
T drive is great if you are interested in doing engine and transmission swaps. V drive is much easier to work on for maintenance and repair. Looked at an Orion coach when I was bus shopping and just had to shake my head at the prospect of swapping out an alternator. Decided right then and there that a V drive coach was what I wanted. | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
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I know they have buses in Hawaii, but they have very few places to use them for anything other than a few hr. drive for a day trip and even then I don't know where the hell you would park it once u got there. Perhaps Don got a good one from there, but all of them that I ever saw come back here had been reduced to corroded crap. I used to vacation there 2-3 times a yr. for several yrs., several different favorite places on all the islands. I was offered a job there once by Carrier Corp, but my wife nixed it, persuading me that after 2-3 months I would get tired of the confinement. It ain't exactly the 'wide open spaces'and just doesn't strike me as the place to have a conversion | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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YEAH,,that's why I'm back on the mainland...the locals call it "ROCK HAPPY"...which means ..ya' go nuts cause ya' feel confined.. | ||
| Jim (Jim_in_california)
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What you need in Hawaii is a BOAT conversion. Seriously, the "mindset" isn't that different and if I was just sticking with the US West Coast I'd consider it. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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I got a sailboat I'll sell you | ||
| gusc Rating: N/A |
I lived in Ewa Beach too but the only mill there then was the sugar mill. That was a long time ago though when NAS Barber's Point was still open. My guess is that the industrial park is what used to be NAS. Bus would be great for beach bumming even if it never left Oahu. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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yeah...but realy wonder if the state will allow it...there are NO motorhomes over there...that's why I told him to check with D.O.T. before he went too far...there was no sugar mill when I was there in Ewa beach...I was there '75,76 &77 Campbell industrial park...the crane operator had 40 inch wide shoulders...funny...the things you remember...I lived in waipahu....sugar mill was east of there | ||
| T. Gold (Zinguvok)
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I've seen more than a few factory built RVs around here, even just in the Kaneohe area (God knows why). Good point though Two, I will definitely check with the DMV about this soon. Any suggestions on what I should ask 'em, besides if they allow RV registration...? Also, think anything might still be at the steel mill?  Gusc, yes on the beach bumming! Would be very nice to come back from a day of kayaking or bodysurfing to a clean hot shower and a bed... without having to drive 40 miles. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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Hey T.G. If you're looking for any info on cuttin' holes, I gotta 40' Phantom with no guts right now. The windows/floor/seats are all gone (just need a shelter to raise the roof in...) I can get you any kind of pictures you need/want, within a day or so. As an added bonus, I have a few friends that either work or have worked at Gillig whom I can ask qyestions of. I live in Fremont, CA (about 10 miles south of Gillig's plant). Oh yeah, If you want to ask any kind of questions about certain parts, give David Schaible (he's a parts department sales supervisor) at dschaible@gillig.com. If you can give him a VIN number, he can get you just about any part. Oh by the way, I'm 25, so don't let the musty smell here fool you, it's just that fine "vintage bus" smell that you'll find once you remove the ductwork! Tim | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
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Hey Tim - Are you serious? With all the headroom in a Phantom, you're going to raise the roof?? RJ | ||
| T. Gold (Zinguvok)
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LOL Tim! Any pictures you can take would be greatly appreciated, especially of the struts between and below the windows and anything else you may see. My email is zinguvok AT hawaii DOT rr DOT com , and it will happily accept up to 10MB of attachments, I believe. I was indeed considering cutting a few holes Oh, and I dunno the if your bus has these, but assuming it does, pics of whatever is behind the plastic fascia above the windows would also be cool... I've always wondered. Thanks for Mr. Schaible's email address too -- got to find some time to email these people. TG | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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Hmmm, RJ, the roof raise deal was a long thought out arguement. Yeah I have ~70" from frame rail to roof strut at the sides and ~75" in the center, but I have several friends and relatives that measure in at 72+ inches (I'm only 5'8"), and I wanted to replace that nice (dry-rotted) marine birch plywood floor with a 3" "N-Deck" galvanized steel floor with rigid foam insulation in the middle (yeah I know there will be some self defeating thermal short-circuits, but I'm taking additional insulation measures to prevent this...). Also since I'm a sound engineer and electrical engineer by trade I had some other things I planned on doing to the bus (affectionately known as "The suB", I've kept it a secret for about 1 1/2 years already) I'm hiding a new Carrier air conditioner and some other ductwork in the ceiling, and I needed the extra thickness in the floor. T.G. (This part's long) A little about the construction meathod of these Gilligs: they start with a frame, which has most of the mechanical stuff already attached (steering, brakes, axles, etc...) then they attach pre-fab sides the the frame wings (think of them like fish ribs sticking out from a spine). From there they attach the roof frame, which has the side-to-side roof ribs and two full-lenght frame caps (which the cross members are welded to). they do a weld on the outside of the frame only at the top of each window post not a linear weld, becasue they make the frame with a bit of spring to it (weld it curved and then attach it straight). Then they hot stretch the skin to the outside of the side walls and tack weld it on (above the skirt, which is denoted by the black anodized aluminum rail at about waist height to the bottom of the windows). That's about where the solid sheet metal stops, they do have some trim pieces around the windows so that the radius of the safety glass doesn't leave a gaping hole in each courner. I'll skip the insulation/painting part. Then they take 4X8 foot sheets of plywood (most of the ones I cut out were that size showing that they actually designed the assembly process so that they could use off-the-shelf-parts) screw them down with large star-driver screws, and fill the gaps in the cross-beams welded to each wall with bondo. Oh yeah, Bondo. It is a repeating theme in these busses. Even new. You might be asking why the seam at the top of the side walls and the roof rails doesn't have that tube-to-tube rounded valley of sorts, Bondo is the answer. That and they covered the seam with a rain-drip-rail and "silly-cone" sealant just above the windows. But that rounded metal just below the rivet line (visible from the outside) which attaches the roof aluminum the the bus is actually the frame of the roof exposed to the world. So the real short answer to your question of what's above the windows is, from the inside of the passenger compartment out: 1) Trim ring of window, secured with T25 or T20 Torx screws (this hold the windows to the bus) 2) Rubber gasket between frame and window trim ring (part of the windows) 3) Formica, on the sides, and an aluminum (not plastic) air duct above in those models equipt with A/C or large heater. There is a row of rivets you'll be able to see just above the window which holds most of the weight of the air ducts. The air ducts also usually have PA speakers (if so equipt) and the flourescent ballasts inside them. 4) Then there is the frame rail, with fiberglass insulation between the frame members. The ceiling is aluminum backed formica, attached with those trim ribs you see about ever 6 feet or so. Just five screws holds the end of one piece and the end of the next (the curve of the roof keeps it tight. the ceiling line continues inside the air duct, and in fact, it forms one of the three sides of the air duct (no formica there). Above the windows , there's nothing, until you get the the roof aluminum. At windows and below, exterior sheetmetal. Sorry I said that was the short answer. Now Ian's really going to hate me. I'm going to try to post a picture I already have (I'm working up a "How it was done," website, which is just as much a work in progress as the bus.) This may work:  What you should be looking at here is the window opening on the passenger side just ahead of the mid door. As you can see here, I've removed the insulation, floor, and that shinny aluminum stuff they have next to the seats (I made $72 recycling that stuff) If this didn't get it to you, you can get my email address at this post: http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/7288.html?1097506171, Ian actually posted it, so I don't have to type it out. In closing I'd like to thank the accademy and especially my agent Ian for not kicking me of this tour of insanity sooner (A decision I'm sure he'll regret sooner or later). Tim | ||
| T. Gold (Zinguvok)
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That's a great pic and a great explanation, Tim. Thanks a bundle Very enlightening! It looks like you've got space for some bays under there -- is that the case? It also looks like it shouldn't be too hard to work in anything I might like to -- appears to be plenty of space to weld in bracing. Time to brush up on my gas welding and TIG | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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T.G. Well, that last time I measured, the distance from the bottom of the frame rails to the bottom of the skirt framing is about 16 inches or so, and the frame rail that extends to the wall is just about 6 or 8 inches high (and hollow). So yeah, there is some space down there, but not as much as an MCI or Prevost (or most any other highway coaches). Things to remember are: 1) The suspension in the front is a four link and take a lot of space, but not nearly as much as the A-frame suspension in the rear. 2) Then you still have a 125 Gallon fuel tank and four air tanks (transits are designed for much more brake applications and more air accessories). 3) I'm moving the two 8D batteries (driver's side right now) and installing a DC/Air/HVAC PowerPlant just about where the mid-door steps are. The good thing about these Gilligs is that there is plenty of exposed load bearing steel down there (just dont weld to the two main frame rails from front to back). Two words of warning (one for welding, the other for bus aquisition): 1) The metal in these busses is mostly galvanized steel, so use ventilation when welding. Most inert gas meathods don't like the kind of air flow you're going to need (galvanizing compound has enough lead in them to cause you health problems). 2) My buddy Brad (welding and frame assembly at Gillig, until two years ago) says they were seeing a bunch of busses that had cracked rear engine mount brakets. So get dirty. Crawl under the bus and find out how much of a deal you're really getting. I had to replace a starter on my drive home with my bus ($250, installed at the southbound Rest-Stop in Grants Pass, OR at 7:30 in the morning). Good Luck! Tim | ||
| T. Gold (Zinguvok)
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Thanks for the tips, Tim. When working with galvy I always grind wearing a respirator before welding, and then paint afterwards with 90%+ zinc cold-galv (preferably several coats, and usually also with real paint after the cold-galv). Cracked rear engine mount brackets - good to know, and I will definitely check on that! I heard that that A-frame takes up a lot of space under the bus... I was sorta hoping to stash a genset and maybe some water tanks down below (maybe 200-250 gallons all told) but I'll have to look for myself before I decide if I can do that. Is that how you're going to set yours up? Your combo unit also sounds interesting -- I was thinking of going with roof ACs mounted into two of the escape hatches. | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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Combo unit is complicated. Still getting all the parts made (having custom pulleys re-cut from billet aluminum). It features a Yanmar 3 Cylinder Diesel, and three Leece-Nevile (now Prestolite) 300 Amp alternators charging two sets of 8D batteries in series (for 24VDC), AND a 5HP air compressor to top off the air tanks whenever needed (idea hit me after reading this article (http://www.busnut.com/artdg07.html), the part under the picture of the fire extinguisher. The engine also has a small A/C compresor with a magnetic clutch which also hooks up to a "Main-Brain" which I spent countless hours programming. Water, air tanks, generator. I'm even cramming a spare tire down there, so you shouldn't have too much trouble getting something like this to work, if you're not affraid to do some thinking... It may be complicated but even complicated things work (err.. most of the time...). Roof airs should be fine, the Phantoms don't poke much over 10 feet (if the suspension is working right) so you shouldn't have trouble getting under all the 11 foot east-coast bridges that Hawaii doesn't have (at least not the last time I was there, when I was 5) Keep in touch Tim | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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Oh yeah, if you're thinking about the 40 footers, for the A-frame, it goes from the FRONT of the mid-door steps to about 3 feet BEHIND the drive axle (for airbags). As I said it's huge. Tim | ||
| T. Gold (Zinguvok)
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Funny coincidence, I was thinking about a similar system -- 3cyl diesel (was thinking Kubota) with probably multiple electric clutches (if I can find high enough HP clutches), set up to run a ZENA welding generator (which will double as a regular generator), compressor, and AC. Sounds like you're doing a fairly similar rig. I was aware of the A-frame -- painful but it sounds like there's still a fair bit of space to be used. I hadn't thought too much about the height issue, but most of the underpasses are I think 11'6" or 12' at least... the Pali and Likelike tunnels will fit way more comfortably. (I live in Kaneohe [windward side] so that's very important for me!) By the way, I have no intention of doing this, but is there any particular reason why you can't weld on the main structural members? I would assume they're heat treated in some way, or stress risers would be a major problem? Just curious. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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you can weld on anything...welding on galvanised...drink milk | ||
| Tim Strommen (Tim_strommen)
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Big reason is that they are heat treated, but also sandwitched together. If you warp one with a weld you can cause concealed corosion, and weaken the total structure. My friend in Sturctural at Gillig say that if you have to weld, keep it on the other frame components. Cheers, Tim |