| Author | Message | ||
| LABryan Rating: N/A |
Be careful out there. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7190393/ | ||
| LABryan Rating: N/A |
More photos of this tragedy. http://www.nbc4.tv/slideshow/traffic/4286731/detail.html It looks as if the bus was traveling at freeway speed when it hit stopped or slowly moving fire truck nearly broadside. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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bus drivers fault | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
There are many unanswered questions in the report and pictures. It looks like relatively little damage to the bus to have so many injured. Maybe there was a personal injury lawyer on board! | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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or 57 lawyers | ||
| ChuckMC9 (Chucks)
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Fire truck could have come out of nowhere and swerved into bus's lane w/o warning though. Buses are the safest mode of travel, averaging four fatalities a year, according to federal statistics. "Walking is more dangerous," said Dave Longo, a spokesman of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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come out of nowhere ....on I-10.....bus drivers fault.... | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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you must yeld to firetrucks ,police cars and ambulances | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
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This just goes to show... I'd much rather be in my 60 foot tank than a tin can car or pickup "truck". For this kind of accident, only one fatality is a testament to the structural security of something the size of a bus. ESPECIALLY when you consider it hit a loaded firetruck probably double its own weight or more. Even on the 635E in Dallas in rush hour traffic with my rig coming home... I felt safe in my bus. -Mac | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Buses collapse from the front bumper back to the standee line in a front end collision. The driver's area is the most vulnerable and the most dangerous. Don't become falsely secure while driving any bus, a car can kill you. | ||
| Jtng Rating: N/A |
http://users.rcn.com/tcs.interport// | ||
| Brian Brown (Fishbowlbrian)
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Imagine a sticks and staples rig plowing into the firetruck! There'd be plywood shards and little Styrofoam pellets for miles... and no survivors, to be sure. The fatality was likely in the front seat on the pax side, where the hit happened. Anywhere proud of the axles is probably the only truly dangerous place to be on a front or rear impact collision in a bus. For rollovers or side impacts, all bets are off. Thoughts and prayers out to the dead and injured and their families... -BB | ||
| Stan Rating: N/A |
Two Dogs: It is not uncommon for drivers of emergency vehicles to be charged when involved in an accident. They do not have absolute right of way. In this case if the fire engine turned from the right hand emergency lane accross the freeway in front of traffic that was too close to make a safe stop, then the fire engine driver is responsible. However, it is sad that people die when drivers make mistakes. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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bus driver made a mistake...if you see an emergency vehicle ahead...let him do his thing,some people just don't get it.... | ||
| Luke Bonagura (Lukeatuscoach)
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HI Folks: My departed Dad who worked in the Heavy Construction always told us: Accidents are CAUSED, they don't just HAPPEN!!!! And, I have carried that thru my 43 years, working in the bus industry and have tried to pass that along to employees, customers etc. etc. This is a tragic accident with loss of life and personal injuries. The NTSB will investigate, as a commercial vehicle was involved, and a report will be issued. It is just another "Wake-Up Call" for all of us, to be as careful as we can be, and watching out for the "Other Guy", as we operate our cars, trucks, buses or or our BELOVED Converted Coaches!!! We can't be SAFE enough, while watching out for the NEXT GUY!!! Happy & SAFE!! Bussin' to ALL. LUKE at US COACH | ||
| H3 (Ace)
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Let me say that on my just returned 2500 mile trip, in a van pulling my cargo trailer, I noticed most all trucks were doing 55 mph and the charter busses I saw were flying past me when I was doing 60-65. Is it the truckers are saving fuel at lower speeds or being more cautious or both! I remember when the truckers would fly past doing about 80 plus when I was doing 65 plus but that seems to have changed! Just an observation! Ace | ||
| WA David (Wacoastmci)
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Evening TV news in Palm Springs said that bus was travelling at highway speed in car pool lane when fire truck pulled into that lane, slowly accelerating. | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
One of my MAJOR beefs is that fire & police are EXEMPT from having to have a CDL to operate these emergency vehicles. They would benefit greatly from CDL training like everyone else. But we can't say here who's at fault (TD). I'm sure that if the coach driver saw the firetruck and had time to act, he would have stopped. (Only little cars insist on their right of way with a bus or truck that weighs 10 times more!) It looks like the fire truck was going the wrong way unless the bus caused it to do a 180. Many accidents are caused by fatigue or lapse of attention. It may also be that the fire truck pulled out without signalling, etc. It will be interesting to see what the investigation turns up. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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this is scary......MORE people that just don't get it... | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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The trouble with many fire truck drivers is lack of experience. The focus is always on the "we're here to help - to do so requires that I get the crew there fast" attitude. Sometimes that puts the blinders on some drivers - the only thing focused upon is the victim/patient. And sometimes surrounding traffic gets forgotten. In an entire 30 year career, a firefighter may drive a big rig about 2,000 miles... maybe. Some firefighters feel this makes them a professional driver. Not so. Obviously a big mistake was made here. A firefighter may have had the blinders on; a professional bus driver may have had a moment of inattention and didn't immediately recognize the hazard ahead. A combination of these two things, unfortunately, kills people. In my fire department, drivers are required to have a classified D (truck) license with an air brake endorsement. In addition, they go through a mandatory in-house 3-year Defensive Driver programme. Year one focuses on classroom theory, case studies, PowerPoint presentations and scenarios from a packaged programme called "Coaching the Emergency Vehicle Operator for Fire Departments. This programme is endorsed by the National Safety Council. Year two involves closed course driving using pylons in various scenarios including backing with a spotter, offset maneuvering, etc. Year 3 includes two driver tests on an approved road course that has every imaginable turn, road surface, speed and driving condition. One of these two tests is done while it's snowing and one is done in the summer. Interestingly, some of the driver educators at my fire department gained their knowledge and experience under the expert tutelage of one Mr. Buswarrior. In 2003, the latest year statistics have been compiled, there were more firefighters killed in vehicle accidents than fighting fires. Time does a terrible thing on one's memory. When we were 16, we learned that when we see the approach of an emergency vehicle in either direction, we are to move our vehicle to the right and stop. Remember? Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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thanks dad | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
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In the driver education class I took ~25 years ago, we were told to move to the right & allow all emergency vehicles to pass. Also at that time (in South Carolina) a fire truck was allowed to break ONLY 3 traffic laws: 1) Turn left when signs prohibit left turns 2) Go the wrong way down a one-way street 3) Park in front of a fire hydrant Failure to comply with ALL other traffic laws poses a greater danger to everyone. Bottom line --- We ALL need to watch out for each other. I would hate it if I hurt anyone while I'm driving, even if I'm not at fault. So to all that have looked out for me, Thanks! I hope to return the favor! | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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DONE CORRECTLY....when you see an emergency vehicle ,let-up on footfeed...start slowing...prepare to stop AND..turn your emergency flashers....all in 30 seconds...WHY??...you are a large vehicle...you are blocking the view of others as to what is happening ahead | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
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Some clarification is needed here on both sides. I'm retired from what was then an I.S.O. Class One fire department. That meant you could NOT get any better as far as fire insurance rates goes. We had to be firefighters for 5 years before we could even take the test to become apparatus operators or "Engineers". We had to be "certified".... ....before even taking the multiple tests, including 40 hours of actual behind the wheel experience driving engines, ladder trucks, tankers, etc.. The 40 hours included emergency driving techniques designed to prevent harm to the public. The handling characterists of a loaded... ....engine is totally different than that of a car. And yess, we were considered quilty whenever a citizen was injured in any way. We could be FIRED from our jobs for an action/accident not really of our own doing or fault. Anyway, the point is that I probably have close... ....to TWO THOUSAND emergency calls under my belt over a number of years and I NEVER speeded to a call. In fact I had a reputation of being... ...a slow poke, especially when smoke was showing. At this point, we really do not know what happened on that Southern California Freeway. Loaded "triples" (type 1 engines) usually weight in at around 35000 to 40000 pounds; a lot of weight on just two (2) axles. The brakes are huge. The chassis' are built like tanks. All sorts of requirements. The inpact must have been tremeduous. And it all happened in a blink of an eye. SMACKO!!! The bottom line is that in spite of every precaution taken, stuff still happens that is very bad. I mourn for the dead and injured. Thanks.  | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
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See what I mean, Henry... 2,000 calls x 3.5 minutes response time @ 60 mph x 2 for the return trip + 40 hours of experience = 273 hours of driving over 16,400 miles in a 30 year career = 546 miles per year. Admittedly, you and I both drive fire trucks at around the speed limit: 2,000 calls x 5 minutes response time @ 30 mph x 2 for the return trip + 40 hours of experience = 373 hours of driving over 11,200 miles in a 30 year career = 373 miles per year. We really can't consider ourselves to be professional drivers at that rate. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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and...I drove an ambulance...there are things ya' have to do...and places you have to go sometimes to save peoples lives...know it interupts the guy getting to the gambling casino...but the guy bleeding to death ,with no leg...takes priority | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
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...... wanna bet ...... (sorry - couldn't resist) | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
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some people have different values...the guy dieing...can't see the humor in getting to the gambling casino | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
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Yeah Ian, I can see the problem. In my case before I was a firefighter I was a school bus driver which did require a special license. Not much of one, but a special license and training never the less. While a FF I moonlighted driving a product (tanker) truck for a local refinery hauling liquids from Bakersfield down to the LA area. Paid well and the work was at night. Seems the boss guy only hired off duty FF personnel to drive his rigs. Cheaper for him just to pay us cash. We had to have a class 1 license in order to get certified as firefighters before we could take the Engineer's test. This was a local requirement. And not required by the state of California at that time. Now they required some sort of special FF license, but i do not know what it is. Things have certainly changed in the fire service in 25 years. With the average city company now responding well over 2000 times a year.. ....and hot companies (engines) nearing 4000 calls, expeerience piles up. Something bad happened to cause that horrible wreck. Maybe in the future we will find out exactly happened. We fire guys, active and retired remain in shock as to what transpired. Thanks. |