| Author |
Message |
57shadowdog
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 8:55 pm: | |
is there one floor thats is better than onther. the kind that floats. the one you glue or staple. or screw. down |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 9:10 pm: | |
I've got shiplap tongue and groove oak as the floor in my bus, nailed the classic way down to 3/4" ply. I wouldn't do it any other way. Glue will harden and break. A glued floor in my house (which doesn't even move) broke after 15 years and cost me $20 grand to get it replaced. Fortunately I wasn't the one who had it installed in the first place or I'd be so sore from kicking myself... That in itself taught me to NEVER glue a floor of any kind.
I recommend good old flooring nails and the nailer designed to do the job properly, you won't regret it.
In the bus, not a squeak or a hint of trouble after 4 years/20,000 miles.
My 2 cents |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 10:19 pm: | |
I had thin thickness tongue and groove oak flooring installed in our
RV, rather than do it myself. They used glue.
The guy said that he did his RV with nails and tore it all up after going
nuts from the squeaks of the nail and floor movement. The above
post contradicts that, so you have a choice.
The glue was some new crap that stays flexible. But the bedroom
floor managed to unstick, or never properly stuck. The floor dipped
and flexed at that area and contributed to the cause. The rest stayed
down through -10 to over 110 degree climate. Water from a hot
water tank leak didn't faze the glue at all, even though the flooring
was thoroughly saturated.
Now.... floating flooring like Pergo, can be a problem if too much
water saturates the flooring. The foam rubber underlayment gets
damp and there's no way to dry it. Mold can grow. One contractor
told us about his daughter's house after her toilet backed up and
flooded the area... He had to rip up all the Pergo and throw it out,
along with all the underlayment...
This time, I'll probably use Pergo or similar. I may glue it using
a Sika Flex like product that stays flexible, rather than the foam
rubber route.. But the sand can play hell on any wood or laminate
floor, so I'll keep that in mind. The foam rubber underlayment
will compromise 1/16 dips and bumps, so it's a decent way to go
if you're not going to apply a layer of 1/4 ply...
Ceramic tile has been also suggested, and I'm not ruling that option
out. Sand and dirt won't bother it, but anything that drops on it will
break..... and there's the weight of it. But with a 1/4 ply under it,
it'll last forever...
I wouldn't be afraid of glue, if you have a solid, clean underlayment
of new plywood, and the glue is the new flexible forever type...
Let us know what you decide!
another penny |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:48 pm: | |
Glue it down with Barge's Rubberized contact cement on a clean solid underlay. I guarantee it to stay where u put it. A commercial grade product that u don't find everywhere. They don't sell it at HD or Lowe's. A leather shop or shoe repair shop may be able to put u onto a source. I came across it thru a saddle builder. |
FAST FRED
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 5:23 am: | |
All floors get worn over time.
The floating stuff is a snap to replace ,
glued down (any glue) would be a real hassle.
An observation from someone with a stock battleship lineolum floor that doesn't wear out in RV service.
FAST FRED |
Jerry Liebler
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 7:09 am: | |
Fast Fred,
It's a good thing that flooring doesn't wear, it's loaded with asbestos & that could be why.
I'm glad my lineolum is gone but I haven't chosen the replacement. I like the floating best so far.
BTW I'm adopting and expanding on your 'closet in the shower concept.' I'll have a closet over a bathtub that'll roll back over a bed.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120 |
Jerry Liebler
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 7:21 am: | |
Fast Fred,
It's a good thing that flooring doesn't wear, it's loaded with asbestos & that could be why.
I'm glad my lineolum is gone but I haven't chosen the replacement. I like the floating best so far.
BTW I'm adopting and expanding on your 'closet in the shower concept.' I'll have a closet over a bathtub that'll roll back over a bed.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120 |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 8:03 am: | |
I just put down floating laminate floor and I like it, except for the fact I used the cheapest stuff I could find. It scratches to easy, I beleave the coating on mine is more like melamine and not quite as tough. I scratched it already when I moved my sofa which I hate and am getting rid of soon as I get everything else done. you can't glue down floating floor you need to use and underlayment below it that is a cousiony vapor barier material. if you get a spill it just rolls off flooring if you clean it up asap you will not have any problems. and it has an insulating value for noise. my bus is much quieter now. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 8:28 am: | |
Ron-
I spoke with the dealer for "Pergo" and he showed me the
literature for it's installation. They suggest using glue at any
section that may be subject to lifting and especially at the
top of stairs, etc, where any lifting or movement could cause
harm. He said that they've glued an entire small area down
to eliminate movement that would have interfered with an
adjoining room's flooring. Maybe Pergo's different than
the product you used and allows for gluing?
In any event, if you like the stuff, then I guess I'll take another
good look at it. I'm slowly being convinced that a floating
floor with it's foam backing might do the trick.. I don't like
the problem of scratches, especially with the Florida sand...
Maybe a higher grade product would be better...? |
KatMan
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 9:03 am: | |
If you use Pergo it is best to let it float. That way you can easly throw it in the trash when you spill a glass of liquid and it starts to delaminate and curl. |
Jtng
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 9:08 am: | |
Naww.... Really? |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:07 am: | |
JTNG: Really! I have seen several laminate particle board floors that have been ruined by moisture from spilled liquids that were not immediately cleaned up. Think cork tile. Soft to walk on, sound deadening, and insulating. They also make ALL wood veneers that is more expensive than particle board laminates but far superior in all other ways. Much the same as hardwood, but thinner and cushioned composite backing. Another consideration might be composite vinyl tile or planking---lasts forever and easy maintenance. If ure going to use a Pergo type my opinion is u may as well use carpet because you are going to have to replace it in a relatively short time. |
Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:13 am: | |
Is there any kind of sealer that could be used to protect laminate flooring from water and traffic damage? Just a thought.
Bones |
Cliff (Floridacracker)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:32 am: | |
As usual we have a bunch of, I heard, My friend said, I read somewhere.
I have had the Shaw perpetual laminate in my RV and house for four years. I have two under ten kids, house broke a dog and have had almost everything you can imagine spilled on it and many times not found until the next morning.
This is a great product, its tough and holds up.
Its what I am putting in my conversion.
Its also easy to install and if a piece was damaged it is not hard to replace, especially the small amount of flooring in a conversion.
But, if your in the habit of hoseing out your bus after a trip, I would find another product.
Anyway, enough of my rant. Back to putting my rear cap on.
Cliff
75 4905A |
Michael Lewis (Puffbus)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:52 am: | |
We used bamboo flooring. It's T&G on four sides and installs easily. It's also 5/8" thick as opposed to the thinner Pergo, which incidentally has become the joke of the flooring industry. I really think my floor covering friends just hate Pergo type flooring because it can be installed by non-professionals. It has hurt the hardwood floor business.
Bottom line, most "pre-finished" hardwood flooring today is either solid or heavily impregnated with vinyl or some form of plastic or resin.
We installed the living room and corridor back to the bedroom directly over existing MCI substrate by nailing thru tongue diagonally as in traditional hardwood installation. Turns out it does squeak, so we added a bit of construction adhesive when we did the bath. No squeak there, but probably harder to pull up if we have a major leak.
We have worked on top of this floor for almost a year and have been able to repair scratches and dents very easily. It was origionally developed for commercial use in high traffic areas. As an architect, I specified many square feet in business and retail applications with happy clients.
It's also a renwable resource, probably made in sweatshops in China, so there are some trade-offs there.
Michael |
DMDave
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 5:11 pm: | |
We jhave a oak flooring slides together tongue and groovy that was supposed to be glued. I put it on3/4 ply with long brads. 4 years and it has gotten wet once it got soaked when i overfilled the the under cabinet winter tank. No squeaks or delamination. |
bus nut
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 9:29 pm: | |
Some brands of high-pressure laminate carry a warrantee to protect against water damage. Others do not. The masonite type of backing will delaminate very easily if gotten wet. Others have some type of man made / composite material that can soak in water with no damage
fwiw
Mark |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:13 pm: | |
Pergo makes a few types. The one we looked at is total resin
and water immune. The underlayment of foam rubber is the
only problem, since once water makes it to the base, mold
can fester. A small area isn't too bad to take up, but the pieces
will never go back the same.
I used Pergo's solid wood tongue & grove in the RV, but
would prefer not gluing it in the bus, and nails would penetrate
though the bus plywood and into the bay area.
The floating floor may do it.... Seems those that have it,
love it. Good 'nuff!
Waddya/ say, "57shadowdog"? |
CoryDaneRTS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:20 pm: | |
I have the Pergo like floating floor in my living room. And I have 2 Greyhounds that like to run, slip and claw into it all the time. NO SCRATCHES yet!!!
This has been used by the GM Motorhome guys, floating on the foam. They simply love it.
ok, now I am projecting, my floor in the bus will be the laminate floating floor. The coaches I HAVE TALKED TO verify that the floor space is small enough that there is little growth or shrinkage from temp or humidity.
For those that desire the rug, throw them on top of the laminate floor. Easier to clean outside anyway.
I had talked to someone about cork and they love that floor. It also tends to filter noise. Just on other consideration.
Water leaks are a reality of a coach and it would be helpful be be able to get under to dry it out. The means you use to do this will be of your own design. Best to keep in mind that one day, there will be a leak, so might as well prepare for it.
My thoughts
cd |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:47 pm: | |
The only other problem of resin type flooring that I'm aware
of, is the interaction of rubber based rug anti-slip material.
It seems the interaction of chemicals of the materials can
weld the two together, ruining the floor.
Since we would prefer to use some sort of anti-slip material
under the scatter rugs, I'd like to hear some experiences... |
57shadowdog
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 8:57 am: | |
WOW thats awhole lot of info. thanks.. now i think i know less of what to do than before. |
DMDave
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 9:38 am: | |
sawdust or cedar chips,sweep out weekly |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 12:30 pm: | |
HAR!
Yeah, we bus crazed individuals have a tendency to totally
confuse those that had previously been only partially confused.
It's our "code". |
CoryDaneRTS
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 11:47 pm: | |
(" is there one floor thats is better than onther. the kind that floats. ")
OK, heres my take and answer, others may follow.
NO, there is not one floor that is better than any other. This includes the kind that floats.
the answer is NO.
Every floor has its purpose and use depending on what your needs are, even in a bus.
Did you consider ceramic tiles? They use them too.
My thoughts on the floating floor is ease of replacements and the fact that the foam helps reduce sound. Of course, if water gets under it, you need to lift the floor to dry it out. (all buses leak at one time or another)
Some folk just lay carpet, that is also a fine answer to the question "what to use on the bus floor"
Glued or nailed hard wood, tile, parfeit squares looks beautiful and wears hard. BUT is a problem when there is water under the wood or needing replacement.
You will find out it is a judgement call which answers to what your personal needs are or will be in your particular installation.
GoodLucky
cd |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 9:40 am: | |
I noticed that there's only one layer of plywood between my
bus floor and the bay under it. Be careful of nails poking through,
endangering your noggin or whatever else might go in the bay. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 7:33 pm: | |
The floating floor locks so tight that it is virtualy imposible for water to penatrate. the only area I would be concerned about is around edges but if you buy a matching caulk and caulk your base you can eleviate that potential problem. as I stated earlier I used a cheapermade in china product and is not as durable as pergo or other major brands.
I have a couple of leaks in my bus I'm fixing but the water just beads up and rolls off. I highly recomend floating floor. Its easier on your tired feet also. people fear what they don't under stand or don't actualy know. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 10:17 pm: | |
Naww... They go to yer shows, don't they?
(hee hee)
Hey, did you put a plywood "sub floor" on top of the bus floor,
then used the floating floor on top of that?
My original plans were to use "Pergo" on top of the existing bus
floor and save having to lay the plywood.. The cushion base is
said to absorb 1/16 to 1/8 imperfections... but.... |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 11:00 pm: | |
I used a 1/2 inch plywood for a subfloor over my existing floor. be sure to route out a groove in plywood if your seat track sticks up above original floor. If you have a reasonably smooth level floor you could go over it with the floating floor system. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 11:15 pm: | |
Thanks Ron.
I'm trying to decide to go plywood or not. A guy that's doing an MC9
here at this place also, is going to use 1/4 ply. The problem is
the only sheet rock screws I can find are 1" minimum. The 1/2"
ply makes better sense... I don't want screws sticking out in
the bays...
Since I was planing on tile in the kitchen and bath, I may go
the plywood route now..
I'll pick up and test a piece of Pergo and see how the scratch
test goes... stay tuned. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 10:22 am: | |
Don't use 1/4 inch unless you glue or/and staple it down realy good. it will give you problems.A good staple gun might shoot all the way through 1/4 inch and a bad one will leave them sticking up causing more problems. I would definately use 1/2 inch. My cheap floor will hold up ok to foot wear just not heavy bare metal being slid accross it. |
Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 12:18 am: | |
My floor will just be lonumonum in the kitchen and bath and carpet every where elese.
Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon |