| Author | Message | ||
| Randy Schlotthauer (Up8009)
Rating: N/A |
Being one of those who elected to keep the bus air for over the road, I have a question. Has anyone out there had experience good or bad with the new "replacement" refrigerants that purport to replace R12 and require no license? It sounds too good to be true, so I'm suspicious, but it sure would be a break. | ||
| Bob Damm Rating: N/A |
Our church MC-9 uses the 134a refrigerant and it seems to work OK. | ||
| NelsonThomas Rating: N/A |
I have used "Freeze 12" It is non flamable and works very well. Some of the brands use propane as a propellant and can create problems in an accident. Nelson Knoxville | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
and some people use pure propane | ||
| Bill K Rating: N/A |
I was just talking to a ref. guy and he tells me that refrigerant is going throught the roof. 134 is triple in price. Any one know if there is any truth to this. | ||
| Frank Allen Rating: N/A |
using propane in a aircond is making a bomb out ohf your bus, theres still 12 around or you can use the 134, i still have some 12 i think in garage, be careful what you use Frank Allen | ||
| Jon W. Rating: N/A |
There is a direct replacement for R12 that is hydrocarbon based. a search for Duracool should lead you to it. Lest anybody think that this is a propane product check out the specs. The flash point for R12 is around 800 or 900 and the hydrocarbon product is around 1600. There is also a drop in Freon type product but I can't remeber the number. Both do not require a change in oil. | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Rating: N/A |
Propane is a fine replacement for r22 NOT R12 The crap about fire hazard is just crap by those who profit from sale of clorinated and flourinated refrigerants. The propane in the typical RV is much more hazardous, especially with a propane powered genset running on liquid propane than the few pounds in a fully sealed AC unit. Besides R134 & r12 are flameable under the right circumstances. Check out http://homerefrigerants.com for more exact hydrocarbon replacement refrigerants for both r12 and r22. | ||
| CoryDaneRTS Rating: N/A |
HO Ok, heres a stretch.... The buildings downtown are cooling with ICE WATER, supplied by a company that makes the ice water. Ice is made at night, the lines go through the pool cooling the water in the line and sent to the buildings for cooling. How about a system designed for a bus? Probably take up the bay for the cooler and tank. I was talking to a refer guy and he said things have changed with the conversion to the newer freon.... said used to have to change out half the system but now, only the drier, and sometimes not even that... What is this world coming to? cd | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
Of course it would not be legal but if you were visiting Mexico and recharged your system it would cost a lot less. They still make and use R-12 in many countries. Did anybody see the refrigerant recovery machines on Esurplusauction.com? It appears they are selling them because they only are designed for R-12 and R-22. Since most buses have R-22 one of these could be helpful. I have no finincial intrest in them, just hope somebody can benefit from one. Mike | ||
| John that newguy Rating: N/A |
Drive north in summer, south in winter.. wazza problem? | ||
| Lin Rating: N/A |
We have had Freeze 12 in a car for just over a year and it seems to work fine with no alteration to the system. The air might not be quite as cold as with R12 though. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
"The buildings downtown are cooling with ICE WATER, supplied by a company that makes the ice water. Ice is made at night, the lines go through the pool cooling the water in the line and sent to the buildings for cooling. How about a system designed for a bus? Probably take up the bay for the cooler and tank." Check the Carrier site in the MARINE area. Chilled water systems are decades old and have lots of advantages (heat OR cool) , but are usually in sizes far to large for a coach. Carrier was working on a coach unit , wild cycle alt and electronics package to operate replaceable chiller units. The only hookup would be for water & electric , all the cooling is in an easily replaceable and factory rep servacable package. Isn't here yet tho! FAST FRED | ||
| Ron Yoo (Roksly)
Rating: N/A |
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/ | ||
| omitted on purpose Rating: N/A |
Most of the world uses hydrocarbon refrigerants without any documented case of personal injury. I just evacuated and refilled my R-12 system with envro-safe which is a blend of butane and propane. It works just great. Unlike 134 it is also compatible with R12 mineral oil. Finally with larger molacules than R12it will not leak like 134 might. I had topped off my system with freeze 12. Freeze 12 is a blend of 134 and another refrigerant which I forget at the moment. The hydrocarbon vendors are a little deceptive in the ads claiming truthfully that their products has a higher flash temperature than R134. But at the same time R134 does not have to be labeled as flammable whereas the hydrocarbon refrigerants do. An easy example of this is diesel fuel which has a much lower flash point than propane. Try lighting it with a match. Now do this with propane. But the low flashpoint allows diesel fuel to self ignite in a compression engine, whereas propane requires a spark or flame. Most of the world is outlawing 134 due to it being a greenhouse gas. Last year will be about 2010. In Europe possibly sooner. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
propane is cool...& only 2.00 a gallon | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Omitted on Purpose: "without any documented case of personal injury." Tell that story to someone who doesn't know better. Ever hear of Phosgen gas, a by-product of burned hydrocarbons and flourocarbons combined? Many service people have died from it, including a fellow-worker of mine 35 yrs. ago. I got lucky, requiring only first aide, medication, and week to re-cupperate from the headache, nasaus stomach, and fluid in the lungs. | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
I must be missing something but how does a gas (R-12) that is heavier than air ever make it up to the ozone layer in the first place? I just don't buy the R-12 ozone theory. | ||
| Jim Bob Rating: N/A |
Omitted: It's R-12 that is being outlawed, followed soon by R-22. R-134 wes just put on the market 10 years ago to replace R-12. Jim-Bob | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
All good pionts for removing the bus air and buying somthing that can be replaced if it should go out. Like roof tops or bacement AC. Yes it hurts to remove a good working bus AC mine was 100% working and most of it new. Cutting the line and seeing whatever was in it go up and kill some more ozone was cool. Made me want to go out a kill a whale and cut down a tree  Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A |
Brian: I wouldn't brag to loudly about that, since it is worth a very healthy reward for turning your ass in, given the evidence you just provided. Mike: Florinated hydrocarbon refrigerants are chemical compounds. Not all components are heavier than air in a free air environment. | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
I will be removing the a/c in my bus... but not for reasons of refrigerants and their availability... The spot that the condenser coils take up is a PERFECT spot to put the gennie I have... Either that, or a triplet set of 6kw gennies. As big as my rig is... I can see a need for more than 12kw of power on really hot, or really cold days... Not only that... but the A/C compressor in my bus is just absolutely HUGE. It saps a LOT of power from the engine... and at a GVWR of 66,120lbs... I need every single horsie under there pounding hoof to get the beast moving and keep it moving! Cheers! -Mac | ||
| Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A |
PS.. I too do not believe in the whole R12/R22 "greenhouse gas" ozone depletion mumbojumbo crap that the governments spew about it. First of all, the studies are based on LABOROTORY results, not actual real life live observation of the chemical reactions.... Yes, R12 and R22 destroy ozone gasses... but geezus, they have to get up there first, which is damn near impossible. It's just another way for the gov't to make money off us unsuspecting Citizens (ever notice that "Citizen" is capitalized up to the 14th Amendment, but not in the 14th Amendment and after, and not in any state legislation since? Hmm... Yes, Conspiracy.) -Mac | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
one volcano does more damage to the ozone than all the r12 | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
I have several R-134a converted R-12 systems--at the moment, three. All work just fine--but I did it right: change all O-rings, R-134a-compatible compressor oil & reciever-dryer, blow the hoses & condenser out with compressed air to get all the old oil out, & pull 30"+ of vacuum on the whole system for at least 30 minutes (I did an hour) to get all the moisture out. | ||
| Brian (Bigbusguy)
Rating: N/A |
Then James I should not say any thing about when chainging my oil I flushed the used oil down the toilet. And you can kiss my .... Brian 4905 Klamath Falls Oregon | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Brian, You should have used the oil to burn some old plastic, then dump the ashes in the river. | ||
| FAST FRED Rating: N/A |
For folks planning on just using Propane to re plenish a R12 system , be sure to Filter the Propane thru a REFRIGERATION filter dryer FIRST!! I use the Ansul T flow , as it's the same in my boat freezers and I usually have spair filters . Lots cheaper than $200 for a 30# F12 can from the Bahamas. Works for me, FAST FRED | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
I have been thinking about a cheap and reliable A/C system for a while now. I was thinking about using 2 auto A/C compressors driven off the engine while on the road and 2 large window A/C units when connected to a PP. I would put the evaporators from the auto A/C systems as well as the evaporators from the window units in one big tub of water and antifreeze. Then I would pump the coolant solution to the air handler in the bus. This way I could use flammable refrigerants and if I had a leak it would never reach the cabin. The best part about this setup is it would not cost very much. I can always get the window units free on craigslist. | ||
| TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A |
or get an iceberg & tow it behind your bus | ||
| Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A |
I would have a group of protesters following my bus trying to save the ice. | ||
| doug g Rating: N/A |
Most new school busses use two small compressors feeding two A/C units. Parts are cheaper, and if one unit is out the other still cools you. A 2000 Thomas rear engine I drove for our church had this and it worked well even in Florida. | ||
| Johnny Rating: N/A |
Smaller buses have used that for a while--we have a number of them set up that way at work. Carrier & Trans-Air seem to be the most common brands. Some have 2 A/C units fed by one big compressor...this doesn't seem as reliable as the 2-compressors systems. |