| Author |
Message |
JackW
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 2:40 pm: | |
Marshall was by this morning, said theyre tagging me for having a commercial vehicle on the property. '75 MC8, converted. Any input welcome.
Jack |
TWODOGS (Twodogs)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 2:42 pm: | |
not if it's licenced as a motorhome |
dug
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 3:09 pm: | |
I have mine licensed as a Private Coach in Florida. Code enforcement came by and looked at it, and couldn't do anything.
HTH,
Dug
75 MC8
Arcadia, FL |
JackW
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 3:44 pm: | |
Title in GA as a motorhome. Was titled a motorhome in NV when I bought it. Fully converted.
Jack |
Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 3:46 pm: | |
As long as it isn't registered or titled as a commercial vehicle, they can't enforce the "violation" ticket.
I had a dumbass cop do the same thing to me with my skoolie... I took it to the police chief and told him there was no way in hell I was paying a $500 commercial violation ticket... He asked me why I thought I was so special, I told him it has nothing to do with being special, it has everything to do with the cops following their own rules and proceedures. The license plate clearly stated "PRIVATE BUS". The cops have computerized cars and can look up anything on the spot...
I told him the "commercial" vehicle in question was registered and titled as a motorhome which is by its very nature non-commercial and no commercial tickets could be written for it, and I knew that if I pushed it into court that he and his boys would look like fools -- especially since I brought it to his attention personally. He tore the ticket up on the spot and said have a nice day.
-Mac |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 5:11 pm: | |
Truth is, they got a complaint, and acted on it without giving much thought to what they were doing, which is pretty much par for the course. Complaint was from somebody that was connected with one of them. He probably had partial motive in collecting some overtime from a court appearance so why don't you just accomodate him. Current registration should be sufficient for your evidence, but take the title also just for back-up. Regretably, we have to play the game, and filling the coffers is part of their game. |
Jon W.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 5:40 pm: | |
A while back we were in our Prevost and parked with the buses at a large outlet mall in PA.
We were having coffee and heard someone try to open the door, and since it was locked they started banging on the door.
When I slid the window open (I won't open my door unless I know who might be coming in) it was two women dressed in khaki work outfits with some emblem patches on their shirt at the shoulders and some plastic ID badge clipped to their pocket.
The DEMANDED that I allow them to enter. I told them not until I knew who they were and why they felt it was their right. The told me they were going to check my insurance papers and logs. Since they were standing next to the cast aluminum sign that said "private coach", on a bus with non-commercial NY plates I decided they couldn't read so it made no sense to let them in.
I slid the window shut and went back into the coach without saying a word. (I couldn't because my wife was screaming at me because she was sure we were going to jail)
They went away. They were pissed.
That afternoon we were near the food court and I saw these two women. I stopped to ask them why they were checking the buses. They were with the ICC and were reviewing the paperwork on all of the charter coaches. They apologized to me because they recognized me and realized after I shut the window on them that we were non-commerical.
Mistakes happen and the folks that wrote the ticket should make it go away so you are not troubled by having to go to court. |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 5:58 pm: | |
Wow....lots of good input here. Me for one can not believe that public employees (maybe volunteers?) COULD BE THAT DUMB!!! hassling private motorhomes which are by definition...
...non commercial vehicles. I mean, can't they read a license plate and do a computer search? Or...just knock gently and polietly ask if the coach in question is within their legal delegated authority?
The mind boggles. Well, my feeble mind maybe. And...what if the private non commercial coach in question is being used as a PRIMARY RESIDENCE? What if they forced entry with you/us/me inside at the time? I hate even thinking about that one. Thanks. |
T. Gold (Zinguvok)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 7:13 pm: | |
This seems like a great reason to have a really outrageous paint job and custom emblems... (Grin) |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 7:13 pm: | |
Jack-
Before you run violently rampant taking the words you read here
as gospel..... Take ride to the courthouse and find out exactly
what the citation was for.
Some of the legislated local codes are written to encompass
a number of situations that the town is seeking to cure. The
"no commercial vehicles" code may well include vehicles over
a specific size or weight. The officer may have over-simplified
his explanation for writing the ticket....
There are quite a few communities down here that ban the
overnight parking of commercial vehicles, including any vehicles
of certain sizes and/or weight, commercial or otherwise. |
captain ron (Captain_ron)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 7:44 pm: | |
I have been going through this on Fort Myers Beach. The city ordinence enforcer called me 4 weeks ago and asked if I owned the bus at the end of the street. I replied yes and he said I had to move it. I asked Why and he said it was not zoned for storage. I told him it was a licsensed insured vehicle that I drive every few days and was on private property and I was NOT moving it. He asked for my mailing address so he could send me a violation ticket, I have still not recieved one. but I did get a $30.00 parking ticket for evidently being too close to the side walk. the ticket was for parking on a right of way. last year they intimidated the person who rented me the parking space for a month and I ended up loosing my $100.00 this year it's on Sprints property, they are less likely to be intimidated. |
Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 8:57 pm: | |
I ran into a similar problem when I brought my bus home. It was the day before Thanksgiving, so I couldn’t apply for plates until the following Tuesday with the holiday and the DMV being closed on Monday.
I live in a small town of 900 and the Police Chief is the only full time officer, so the Chief shows up and she says there is a complaint about our bus being parked in the driveway without tags. The fine neighbor that called claimed the bus had been there for months without tags. She knew this was not the case since the bus is kind of hard to miss. She explained the city law states that all vehicles on your property must be plated and in operating order. The city had been cracking down on people with property that looked like junkyards. One of the biggest offenders decided to use my running, soon to be plated bus as an excuse to have junk cars parked on his property….”I’ll get rid of my cars when that guy moves his bus, no way that thing is legal.”
My bus became an issue at every monthly town meeting. The city even went as far as to send out the building inspector to see if the bus was legal to be parked as close as it was to the building…it was a very small lot. The Chief told me that the Mayor checked every possible angle to get me to move the bus but there was nothing they could do, it was legal. It stayed parked there for 2 years while I was pulling the seats and doing repairs, etc.
The Chief for some reason was on my side. I told her at one point I would move it and put an end to the issue. She said no, you have the right to have your bus there if you want. She even told me that I could drive the bus on the side streets that were marked 5 ton limit as long as I was going to my buddies shop for repairs. As luck would have it, I had to pass the guy’s house who started most the problem in the first place. I would pull up to the stop sign and hit the air brakes a few times to remind him I was still in town, childish I’ll admit but it was fun.
I talked with the only two neighbors that could really see my bus from their property, showed them pictures and asked if they would mind if I brought the bus home, and they said it was OK with them. It was only after the fact that one of them started some of the problems I had, claiming the bus was an eye sore. At the moment that individual has a beat to hell 5th wheel trailer parked on his lot…. eye sore indeed.
Jack, if this was started by a neighbor’s complaint, you may have a long road ahead of you. I had the good fortune of having one bullet Barney on my side. I hope you can find a friend at city hall as well.
Bones |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:21 pm: | |
Isn't it nice how the government local or state can decide what we can have on our own property? This kind of thing really burns me up. My parents had a heck of a time years ago because they installed a swamp cooler on the roof. The neighborhood had a covance that did not allow them. The catch was when they installed it there was no covance being enforced. That way it grandfathered in. What a bunch of crap that we all have to deal with. |
Stephen Fessenden (Sffess)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:27 pm: | |
A friend with an old looking 4104 conversion was told by Winter Haven Police he could not park a bus next to his house. He told them it is a motor home with a kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, living room and showed them and they left him alone after admitting he did have a right to park it there. |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:44 pm: | |
I guess it pays to live in the boonies where ure nearest nieghbor is 1/4 mile away and even he relies on your private road to get to his house.
As Bones shows, all depends on the person behind the badge. 3 yrs. ago our bus club held a rally at a privately owned water park, in their parking lot, during a big annual car show event in Redding. The city has an ordinance regulating overnight parking of private RV's on commercial property. Shortly after we a few of us had arrived a city policeman shows up. He eventually approached us and inquired about our being there. We explained that we had the owners permission, was paying him a nominal fee for the use of his parking lot for 4 days, and we would not be conducting any wild parties, only in town for the car show. 2 or 3 of our group were entrants in the show. Turns out he had responded to a complaint by one of the two RV parks that could see us from their parks. He walked away, talked on his cell phone for a bit, came back and told us that he had informed them that the park owner was having a private party and it did not fall within the bounds of the ordinance. That was that. They even made 2 or 3 passes thru during each night for security checks and 3 or 4 of them stopped by for tours during the course of the 4 days. Who could pass on a parking lot full of Prevos, Eagles, MCI, and GM conversions. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:49 pm: | |
Mike-
Yeah 'zactly! Back in the 60s on Long Island, there were incidences
where a tree house for the kids required a building permit. We
moved to Massachushits in the 60s.. Not much different though...
We're down in Florida now, and the local ordinances and regulations
make "freedom" a thing of the past.
In years gone by, any "restriction" to a deed was considered a fault
to avoid. Now, the people are flocking to the "deed restricted"
communities, feeling that "certain rights" should be disregarded at
all costs.... and forever, at that.
Stupidity at it's grandiose empirical point.. |
DMDave
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:58 pm: | |
If you are a member of FMCA you can contact them for help and info. 1800 543 3622. Every once and a while they have articles on this stuff.Dont lose your cool(yet) talk to the powers and see whats up. good luck |
Linda Karlsson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:45 pm: | |
Jack, we were given violation notices twice by two different code enforcement officers. Each time, the problem was resolved by showing them the interior of our fully converted coach. Try going to the marshall or his supervisor with photographs of your interior as well as the registration showing the motorhome classification. If you end up having to go to court or a hearing, take photographs with you as well as the registration papers. Good luck |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:32 pm: | |
I'm with you JTNG. I find it hard to fathom that people actually pay for the privelege of being stepped on and dictated to. |
Mike (Busone)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:53 pm: | |
I just don't understand how people like being so controlled. Almost all the communities around here even say "a coveant protected community." As soon as we get back on our feet we are moving out to the boonies. I don't want to raise my daughter in a nazi controlled community. My aunt thought the whole protected community was a great thing until she was told to remove her ST. Francis statue from her yard. They don't allow anything religious because somebody might be offended. |
Lin
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 3:44 am: | |
The trouble is that although a certain level of control is reasonable in our generally dense communities, people get carried away with their ideas of conformity. While I see it as okay to say that your front yard should not be a wrecking yard with half dismantled cars, rear ends, and transmissions lying aroung, but soon people that don't have boats want to ban boats, people that don't have motorhomes want to ban motorhomes, etc. I once watched that moron Andy Rooney use his national television time to complain about his neighbor's fifth wheel. A friend of mine was forced to cut down a beautiful willow tree because the city of La Mirada, Ca. complained that the shade effected his lawn. |
Cliff (Floridacracker)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 6:13 am: | |
As a former member of a county code enforcement board for over seven years let me make a few observations.
90% of all code violation reports are initiated by a neighbor who has never talked to the other neighbor about the problem.
The code officer is the messenger "don't shoot the messenger"
If you don't like the codes, work to have them changed and a little due diligence on what codes an area you are considering moving in to has is probably a good thing.
Like many of you I live out in the rural area of my county(Big time defender of personal property rights), but I am a little sympathetic to a person living in the average in town residential neighborhood who doesn't want a large vehicle parked next door.
After it meets the legal test, I guess the "Due unto others" may come into play for some".
Cliff
75 4905 |
Jon W.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 7:39 am: | |
We do have a lot of freedom despite what has been posted here.
When we were looking for a new home or a site to build one our bus was always a consideration. We not only had to have roads suitable so we could get the bus to the house, we also had to have a house or property that did not prevent us from having a bus on it.
There were a lot of developments where the deed restrictions prevented just about anything that we considered important. In theory the deed restrictions are in place so property values are maintained. From our perspective we didn't want to be prevented from hanging clothes on a clothes line, or having our garage door open.
We just ended up buying acreage that is so private we can't see another house when the leaves are out. Now we have the freedom to do what we want and we have a clothes line.
Ain't America great? |
Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 8:42 am: | |
"don't shoot the messenger"
Good call, Cliff. My local government is a joke but I stayed civil and friendly with them. I didn't shoot the messenger so they never had a reason to shoot at me. Many who have had problems would blow up and be viewed as unreasonable, just adding to their troubles.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If my neighbor brought home a bus and parked it next to me, I would be thrilled to have another busnut next door...but that's just me.
I'm in the middle of moving now and it's going to be the "sticks" for me. My bus will be in my backyard and nobody will have to look at it but me.
This whole situation makes me think about the old saying, give up freedom for safety and you get either.
Bones |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 9:20 am: | |
Jon-
Yup, America is great, thanks to the freedom our Constitution
and Bill of Rights guarantee... Your rights can not displace mine.
The problem with "restricted deeds", is in the fact it can displace
freedom that our Constitution guarantees. Sure, you can battle it
to the Supreme Court, but I'm not too sure you'd win, unless it's
a basic freedom that's being infringed upon (like keeping a gun
in your home; religious practice, etc).
In one "restricted deed" community about 1/2 mile from our
home, the "restriction" is based on whatever the "association"
deems fit at the time. The "restrictions" are subject to change
as frequently as the "association" committee desires, and those
in the committee are voted in and out by property owners. Many
of those "deed restricted" communities have wording of deeds
that designate the "committee" as the assignor of whatever
restriction they see fit to invoke.
"Deed restrictions" that designate an association as controller
of your freedom; an association that changes restrictions at will,
limiting your freedom as it sees fit, defies common sense. Those
that have bought into the community have given up their right
to live as they see fit, regardless of how careful they may have
ever been, to not trample other's rights.
Plastic lawn furniture had been allowed and disallowed, along
with plastic flowers and decorations. Parking of vehicles in the
driveway overnight had been prohibited, as is working on your
car in the driveway or in the garage with the door open.. As
mentioned in another post, the use of any outside clothesline
is prohibited.
In one community (BareFoot Bay; Fl) leaving lawn furniture
out when you take a vacation can result in a fine per day, each
day the violation continues. Imagine returning home to a $5,000
fine? (yes, it had been posted on their own bulletin board; several
violators and the amounts.)
The fines are not something you can not ignore paying, since
the "deed restrictions" and association rules and fines are
backed by the State. If you bought into it knowing the pitfalls,
you have entered into a binding contract and must obey and
abide it's contingencies.
So, in a deed restricted community, my "rights" could displace
yours... If I'm a committee member and decide I don't like
homes painted in the color you've used... or I don't like
a patio umbrella of the type you have... Or I do not want to
see your Webber BBQ outside, even in use... Or maybe
I don't want to see trees over 5' tall or screens on windows...
You're at my mercy and disposal.
Sure, we have the freedom to move in or out of anyplace, but
deed restrictions remain long after the community is dissolved.
The neighborhoods will be forever condemned to deeds that
have a notation giving the right to it's use only as prescribed
by someone other than the owner.
Mind as well just salt the ground and pave it over. |
Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 9:54 am: | |
Cliff...
As far as the "messenger" is concerned, the fact is that almost every time I've ever dealt with a cop, they've been arrogant, pompous assholes that didn't deserve to live, much less tell me what I could and couldn't do. As truly sad as it is, you are the exception to the rule.
If the "messenger" would do more of his job than follow "orders", 90% of the problems that exist in this country would simply go away. In my opinion, it's mostly the cops that deserve to be behind bars, not the people that end up there as it exists today... But that's another really long story of mine, heh.
Vin...
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
I had that in big letters on the back of a truck I had. It's amazing that people would give up the right to breathe freely if they thought they'd be "safe" from their neighbors. People like that should just be dragged out and shot for the good of the country! As far as I'm concerned, it's treason.
Jtng...
Agreed.
Cheers!
-Mac |
James Maxwell (Jmaxwell)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 11:02 am: | |
Mac & JTNG: If I didn't know better I would think u live in N. Idaho! But, I have to agree w/ a lot of what u say. Did everyone pay their taxes tdy? Big Brother is watching and he sure needs the bucks. |
Macgyver (91flyer)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 12:20 pm: | |
James.... Taxes?!? If they were MY taxes, I'd pay them. But the IRS has yet to respond to my demands for proof. The only thing they've sent me thus far is a statement saying the 16th Amendment granted them the right to tax income... But that's not what the Supreme Court said.
The SC said the 16th Amendment did not confer new powers of taxation, and was supposed to clarify what the income tax was... some clarification. More like obfuscation!
But this is a sore topic for me anyway. :p As far as I'm concerned, the IRS can kiss my ass. If they want to stick me in jail for it, more power to them. This country was founded because of unfair taxation... So what could be more American than NOT paying it!
-Mac |
Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 12:54 pm: | |
Hummm, I always thought it was 'taxation without representation'. That is why I vote, although I wonder if it matters since the majority of politicians are liars for hire. Not to mention the special interest lobbyists talking them into doing more stupid things. Still, it is the best system out there that I know of (And I don't claim to know much).
As far as ‘code enforcement’ officers go, their profession is like any other in that you have all kinds working there. If someone acts like a horses a$$ to me, I’ll usually succumb to the temptation to show them that a professional horses a$$ really looks like!
Like has been said here, look into the rules before you do something. I personally like the "deed restrictions" and association rules as it lets me know where I do not want to live, also speaks to the type of neighbors you should expect.
Kyle4501 |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 1:39 pm: | |
When it comes to a deed restricted community or covenants on property (like a subdivision association) there is the one alternative that always works - DON'T MOVE THERE!. You have a choice to make and when you abandon that decision you pay the price. The midwest is full of subdivision associations and it is hard to find a palce where they do not reign - BUT I have the alternative of not moving in one of those subdivisions if I don't want the regulations.
When a community passes a law that removes rights of an individual that cause financial hardship, there is legal recourse. It's been to the supremes and back and it holds true - so find a liar-for-hire that you can stand and go after them! Zoning cases are most common but I would really like to see one about RVs go to court on that law. If I am compelled to suffer financial hardship by paying rent to park an RV that I used to keep next to my house, then that has caused financial hardship.
If you let them take advantage of you - shame on YOU. Government will take and take until you say NO. Something about .... We the People ...
My $0.02
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
DMDave
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 7:49 pm: | |
time to throw the tea in the harbor |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 7:58 pm: | |
As the current president of a homeowners association that has covenants to enforce, the above is pretty correct. However it should be pointed out that it takes a majority of the owners to pass more restrictions, so it is majority rule. The biggest problem is that owners feel that anything they don't like is somehow "covered" by the covenants, and try to enforce their pet peeve upon the entire community. |
Just wondering...
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 9:10 pm: | |
"When it comes to a deed restricted community or covenants on property (like a subdivision association) there is the one alternative that always works - DON'T MOVE THERE!"
What do you do when the place you live BECOMES a place like that? |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 9:55 pm: | |
Well, you can politic to not allow the change to be approved. After the fact? You gotta move! Look at the bright side, with a majority of people like that, who wants to live there anyhow? |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 10:49 pm: | |
Just wondering-
The area cannot "become" deed restricted. If you have a deed
that doesn't carry restrictions, it never will carry restrictions,
unless -you- add those restrictions to the deed upon sale.
The town government can employ restrictions to usage, but
that's not what the topic is here.
My issue is, that the deeded restrictions can carry beyond
generations, from what the original restrctions apply. That is,
that if the "association" and governing entity has been dissolved,
the "restrictions" will remain enforcable by the decree of whatever
can be deemed as the "association" in the future.
Buying land that is "restricted" of usage, is just not a good idea. |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 11:04 am: | |
I was told some years ago that "Deed restrictions" are hardly worth looking at, an old obsolete way of doing business, not enforceable anyway. I think most of this thread is really talking about covenants, which are neighborhood made and enforced "laws", and can be changed or eliminated with a single majority vote of the residents. |
John that newguy
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 6:18 pm: | |
I'd love to say it's just semantics, Don, since they both effect
the buyer of the property to the same degree.
The trouble with any "deed restriction", is that it may convey a
"right of way", or "right to access", or any number of use-restrictive
or privacy invasive clauses.
Most "deed restricted communities" have an association
on duty to insure the restrictions are not ignored, making the
enforcement and fines more likely......
There are all sorts of "deed restrictions" of covenants (multi-homes)
and of single, private lots. In either case, if any penalty is applied for
mis-use, the owner can be forced to pay. The State authorizes
these devices; they are legal and enforceable.
Just because the home an individual might be looking at isn't part
of a development, it doesn't mean there can't be a hidden restriction
to what might be desired using it for.. A title search and a title
guarantee will save some major headaches. I wouldn't consider
putting a deposit in a home or land, without the contingency that
the title must be clear of any obstacles that may be undesirable
to me. They're far from "hardly worth looking at". Any buyer
should be deeply concerned and consider all the ramifications
of buying property that will never be totally owned. |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 9:47 pm: | |
Ya sure got that right! |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 8:04 am: | |
Don
Deed restrictions are still enforcable - so long as they are legal. In St Louis (2nd city in US to create zoning and one of the first to utilize subdivisions with covenants - in the 1800s!) they have lots of property that has deed restrictions and they are largely enforcable. The issues like race restrictions and some limited use restrictions (like "may never be used commercially" are overturned by functions of law from the constitution down to local zoning. The rest of the stuff is still valid, like non-competing commercial use with/to the original grantor.
Speaking of the history of zoning and covenents, you will find that in the most unlikely places. St Louis is as bad an area zoning-wise as the northeast. You drive 30 miles outside of town, and they don't even require building permits in unincorporated areas of some counties. Go figure.
Incidently, I bought a small lot in a commercial subdivision and guess what - there are covenants and a landowners association! It makes sense for that place since it provides snow removal in an unincorporated area of the county and sets restrictions so that someone doesn't open a junkyard (which would lower property values of the rest of the owners such as small office buildings and retail operations - if just doesn't fit.).
We pays our money and we takes out choice!
Doug
St Louis MC9 |
Don/TX
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 9:40 am: | |
Doug, the deed restrictions I have encountered, were mostly ones that would be illegal if you enforced them, or so silly or meaningless as to have no need for enforcement, like dancing on Saturdays, baseball playing on the property, restrictions placed on future dispositon of the land (like you can only sell it back to the seller, who is now dead) instructions. In one instance I know of, the purchaser simply re-deeded the property to his son, WITHOUT the restrictions in the new deed. I would imagine that if one had a deed prohibiting RV or Bus parking on the property, it could be similarly handled, at least you sure could in Kansas. (Just had to get this back on buses you know) |
Vin (Billybonz)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 10:20 am: | |
Check this out…. The small town I live in once had a busy Main Street, what they term these days as the business district. I’m talking about a strip the size of a city block, 4 units on the east side and 5 on the west. As time when on, many of these storefronts have been converted to apartments. As a matter of fact, all the stores are now apartments. The only businesses in town is the new Casey’s gas station, a carry out pizza joint and the bar, and only the bar is on the Main Street strip.
The local guberment decided they would revitalize Main Street by passing a zoning law that states any of the property sold on Main Street that was a storefront, must be used as a business, even if it currently is a residence. When people try to sell their property on Main Street, the prospective buyers must be told the street level apartments cannot be lived in and must be turned back into businesses. This is fine if the buyer is looking for an office or small shop with living quarters above. These store fronts are about 1300 square feet with limited parking and no municipal parking available.
This might work OK except most small businesses are closing in this area since the big chain stores have been moving in. There is Rockford 15 miles NW (population 150K) and DeKalb, with NIU 10 miles to the south. The WallyWorlds and Best Buys have killed most of the Mom & Pops years ago. The Mayor thinks with a stroke of his pen, he can make the property owners put businesses back in, just ain’t gonna happen. Even the cable TV company pulled out of town so the only option is a sat dish if you want TV, and no high speed Internet either unless you want to use the wireless system from the neighboring town to the east as I do…the connection is down prolly 30% of the time.
And the kicker is the Mayor doesn’t even live in city limits. He lives in a new subdivision where he can get cable and high speed Internet. The city council passes rules and regulations affecting people who live in the “down town” area, even though none of them live here themselves.
…and I’m fully vented.
Bones |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 1:11 pm: | |
In my small rural home town, the mayor must reside within the city limits in order to even run for mayor.
Richard |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 8:34 pm: | |
Don/Tx
The situation you describe will not eliminate a deed rstriction or a covenant on a property. A deed restriction, unless otherwise stated, automaticly survives, except for when they conflict with law. The "silly" ones can still be enforced but nobody uses that unless they have an ax to grind with someone. Usually, the reason the "no dancing" kind os restrictions are overturned is because the provision was never enforced over a long period of time and then someone tried to enforce it (usually for some other reason like closing a nusance bar). Judges tend to overturn them because of that reason - when you do not enforce a provision over a long period of time, you risk loosing that right.
When we built the cell network in St Louis, we had to research over 300 property backgrounds and some were downright comical. A few were tough requirements - written in the 1800s - that were still valid. One in particular was a "no commercial use" provision in property a cemetary owned. The original land grant provided that. The problem was that the cemetary was broke and very run down, this site was across the street and not used for a cemetary, and they could have really used the money. The provision was still enforcable and we had to go elsewhere.
So - what does that have to do with buses? - well, the property I bought is for the building I am putting up to complete the conversion. It has a neighborhood covenent and an association to enforce it - but no building permits or zoning in that county. Kinda odd.
Doug
St Louis MC9 |